Wow! I just read in the paper today about an old friend of mine who I hadn't heard from has been arrested along with 12 other people in my area for having a drug ring. My friend, was apparently the leader of the ring. They were ordering Molly from china where it is legal to manufacture. Because of this choice of his he faces up to 20 years in prison along with a $1,000,000 fine. I am blown away. Drug laws here in New York, they don't .love. around. If convicted for the maximum sentence, he will be out when he is 45. How do you guys feel about the US drug laws? I think something needs to be changed because obviously the drug smuggling hasn't slowed down at all so out actions are not working. All we are doing in my opinion is making a Prison State. The US has the highest number of incarcerated crimals in the world by a large amount. Most of them in for life over drug charges.
What would you recommend should be done instead?
A lesser sentence would di well if he had some rehabilitation to help ease him in to a career above illicit activities
Quote from: gtfotis on September 18, 2013, 11:41:31 AM
What would you recommend should be done instead?
I'm not saying I have a magical answer to this problem because I don't. But lots of ppl are in jail on a drug charge they get ONCE. Sure, some people make mistakes and stupid choices when we are young but I don't think they should get an extended jail sentence for making one bad choice. For murder and rape, obviously these are exceptions because they are violent crimes. For first time offenders, I don't agree with mandatory minimum sentences. Addiction is now considered a disease, therefore these ppl should be rehabilitated rather than jailed in my opinion. It's overcrowding our prison system and our taxes are used to fund them.
Drugs shouldn't be illegal. Problem solved, black market closed.
Quote from: Dudecore on September 18, 2013, 12:49:06 PM
Drugs shouldn't be illegal. Problem solved, black market closed.
👆👍👌👏
No victim, no crime. If the drug dealer murders or steals or lies, get him for that. Drug dealing is like doing science, you can always come up with an atomic bomb ;)
Quote from: Mikefrompluto on September 18, 2013, 12:56:04 PM
Quote from: Dudecore on September 18, 2013, 12:49:06 PM
Drugs shouldn't be illegal. Problem solved, black market closed.
👆👍👌👏
I like this idea. Although, I don't think it would get rid of the black market however. If drugs were legal to get, there would still be people selling it privately for prices lower than what is available commercially. I definitely think it WOULD impact and anger the black market but I do not think it would eliminate it.
Quote from: EvACiDe on September 18, 2013, 03:03:34 PM
Quote from: Mikefrompluto on September 18, 2013, 12:56:04 PM
Quote from: Dudecore on September 18, 2013, 12:49:06 PM
Drugs shouldn't be illegal. Problem solved, black market closed.
👆👍👌👏
I like this idea. Although, I don't think it would get rid of the black market however. If drugs were legal to get, there would still be people selling it privately for prices lower than what is available commercially. I definitely think it WOULD impact and anger the black market but I do not think it would eliminate it.
Do you or anyone else buy illegal paracetamol?
Quote from: Piotr on September 18, 2013, 03:46:51 PM
Quote from: EvACiDe on September 18, 2013, 03:03:34 PM
Quote from: Mikefrompluto on September 18, 2013, 12:56:04 PM
Quote from: Dudecore on September 18, 2013, 12:49:06 PM
Drugs shouldn't be illegal. Problem solved, black market closed.
👆👍👌👏
I like this idea. Although, I don't think it would get rid of the black market however. If drugs were legal to get, there would still be people selling it privately for prices lower than what is available commercially. I definitely think it WOULD impact and anger the black market but I do not think it would eliminate it.
Do you or anyone else buy illegal paracetamol?
I'm talking about drugs that are already on the Controlled Substance Act enacted by president Nixon. Specifically Schedule I drugs.
As cheap to manufacture as paracetamol. No need for black markets unless you grant monopoly via patents.
Small drugs, that are more on the safe side like marajuana: sure, make them legal, cigarettes do more harm than them.
Hard drugs, that lead to people dying and serious problems: make things stay the same.
Of course, just my opinion. Feel free to disagree.
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on September 18, 2013, 05:40:10 PM
Small drugs, that are more on the safe side like marajuana: sure, make them legal, cigarettes do more harm than them.
Hard drugs, that lead to people dying and serious problems: make things stay the same.
Of course, just my opinion. Feel free to disagree.
I disagree, cigarettes lead to people dying and serious problems, so your solution is illogical.
Quote from: Piotr on September 19, 2013, 03:52:18 AM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on September 18, 2013, 05:40:10 PM
Small drugs, that are more on the safe side like marajuana: sure, make them legal, cigarettes do more harm than them.
Hard drugs, that lead to people dying and serious problems: make things stay the same.
Of course, just my opinion. Feel free to disagree.
I disagree, cigarettes lead to people dying and serious problems, so your solution is illogical.
I said "cigarettes do more harm than them." I was saying that many of the small drugs that are illegal under current laws are less dangerous than cigarettes which are legal. I also believe cigarettes should be illegal but I didn't think we were talking about those kinds of drugs (alcohol, cigarettes, caffeine, ect.) because when most people talk about drugs they exclude them.
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on September 19, 2013, 07:13:30 AM
Quote from: Piotr on September 19, 2013, 03:52:18 AM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on September 18, 2013, 05:40:10 PM
Small drugs, that are more on the safe side like marajuana: sure, make them legal, cigarettes do more harm than them.
Hard drugs, that lead to people dying and serious problems: make things stay the same.
Of course, just my opinion. Feel free to disagree.
I disagree, cigarettes lead to people dying and serious problems, so your solution is illogical.
I said "cigarettes do more harm than them." I was saying that many of the small drugs that are illegal under current laws are less dangerous than cigarettes which are legal. I also believe cigarettes should be illegal but I didn't think we were talking about those kinds of drugs (alcohol, cigarettes, caffeine, ect.) because when most people talk about drugs they exclude them.
And I think what Piotr was saying was that you said harder drugs cause death and problems which should be kept criminal, but so do cigarettes.
One last thing, here in the US even if caught a single time with a Scedule I drug, many times these turn into defacto life sentences which makes me sick.
I believe alcohol is categorically the most dangerous drug. It is legal. We have seen what happens when we make it illegal. The dark side of creativity always takes over, and the black market always fills the need.
As much as some people don't want other people to do drugs. They're afraid of the phantom element of drug users run amok! Cocaine addicts and heroine users breaking into our homes and selling our stuff! They tend to ignore the dead men, women and children as a result of black market crime. As long as it's not happening in their backyards I guess...which is funny because that's not where people would be doing drugs either.
I love your point because I completely agree. A very lucid, well thought out argument. What you said is EXACTLY what they are afraid of by legalizing drugs. They believe everyone will turn the streets into pandemonium. Crack and smack heads run amok, oh noes!!
I kinda like this system. I still have my questions about it but it seems plausible. The laws here in the US are some of the dumbest laws I've seen. Such as the new New York State gun laws where you can only have a maximum of 7 bullets in a clip for it to be legal. 7 bullets in a clip?!? So if I have 8, the gun is illegal one moment. But then when I put one in the chamber, there's 7 bullets left in the clip and it becomes legal the next moment. That's ASININE. no other way to describe it
It's a magazine, not a clip ;)
But yes, that is pretty stupid.
Quote from: EvACiDe on September 19, 2013, 02:06:00 PM
I kinda like this system. I still have my questions about it but it seems plausible. The laws here in the US are some of the dumbest laws I've seen. Such as the new New York State gun laws where you can only have a maximum of 7 bullets in a clip for it to be legal. 7 bullets in a clip?!? So if I have 8, the gun is illegal one moment. But then when I put one in the chamber, there's 7 bullets left in the clip and it becomes legal the next moment. That's ASININE. no other way to describe it
yes, quite stupid. I'm sure the reason is to prevent mass killings with large guns but those guns are already illegal and anyone who would murder a crowd of people dies not give a poo how much ammo is legal to carry, thus this law makes not a lick of sense.
Quote from: Gorzo on September 19, 2013, 05:04:34 PM
It's a magazine, not a clip ;)
But yes, that is pretty stupid.
Touché :P
Quote from: IceScythe on September 19, 2013, 05:14:06 PM
Quote from: EvACiDe on September 19, 2013, 02:06:00 PM
I kinda like this system. I still have my questions about it but it seems plausible. The laws here in the US are some of the dumbest laws I've seen. Such as the new New York State gun laws where you can only have a maximum of 7 bullets in a clip for it to be legal. 7 bullets in a clip?!? So if I have 8, the gun is illegal one moment. But then when I put one in the chamber, there's 7 bullets left in the clip and it becomes legal the next moment. That's ASININE. no other way to describe it
yes, quite stupid. I'm sure the reason is to prevent mass killings with large guns but those guns are already illegal and anyone who would murder a crowd of people dies not give a poo how much ammo is legal to carry, thus this law makes not a lick of sense.
And the criminals doing these killings don't care that a particular make of firearm is illegal. They don't get them registered because they are illegally imported/owned weapons.
The act of murder is illegal, regardless of the tool used. Weapons can be used for defense, training, sports or not at all.
Quote from: Gorzo on September 19, 2013, 05:04:34 PM
It's a magazine, not a clip ;)
But yes, that is pretty stupid.
This made me lol
A clip goes in your hair
A magazine loads bullets in your gun
At least thats the joke in the south
Quote from: Taysby on September 20, 2013, 02:39:06 PM
A dip does hold your hair
You READ magazines.
You put you bullets in the bullet holding-mabobber-thingy. ;)
can we say cartridges? Or are those GBA games...
Quote from: Dudecore on September 18, 2013, 12:49:06 PM
Drugs shouldn't be illegal. Problem solved, black market closed.
This, we can redistribute the money wasted on law enforcement/the "war" on drugs into something useful like education, science, mental health, etc.
Quote from: imthelolrus on September 20, 2013, 05:41:33 PM
Quote from: Dudecore on September 18, 2013, 12:49:06 PM
Drugs shouldn't be illegal. Problem solved, black market closed.
This, we can redistribute the money wasted on law enforcement/the "war" on drugs into something useful like education, science, mental health, etc.
I'm totally all for this. Marijuana should be step one
Quote from: EvACiDe on September 20, 2013, 06:54:03 PM
Quote from: imthelolrus on September 20, 2013, 05:41:33 PM
Quote from: Dudecore on September 18, 2013, 12:49:06 PM
Drugs shouldn't be illegal. Problem solved, black market closed.
This, we can redistribute the money wasted on law enforcement/the "war" on drugs into something useful like education, science, mental health, etc.
I'm totally all for this. Marijuana should be step one
How about stop redistributing the money in the first place?
Quote from: Piotr on September 21, 2013, 05:34:22 AM
Quote from: EvACiDe on September 20, 2013, 06:54:03 PM
Quote from: imthelolrus on September 20, 2013, 05:41:33 PM
Quote from: Dudecore on September 18, 2013, 12:49:06 PM
Drugs shouldn't be illegal. Problem solved, black market closed.
This, we can redistribute the money wasted on law enforcement/the "war" on drugs into something useful like education, science, mental health, etc.
I'm totally all for this. Marijuana should be step one
How about stop redistributing the money in the first place?
That's also an option. But I believe strongly in enducation and mental health because they are crucial to helping people thrive in this society we've constructed.
Quote from: imthelolrus on September 21, 2013, 11:31:03 AM
Quote from: Piotr on September 21, 2013, 05:34:22 AM
Quote from: EvACiDe on September 20, 2013, 06:54:03 PM
Quote from: imthelolrus on September 20, 2013, 05:41:33 PM
Quote from: Dudecore on September 18, 2013, 12:49:06 PM
Drugs shouldn't be illegal. Problem solved, black market closed.
This, we can redistribute the money wasted on law enforcement/the "war" on drugs into something useful like education, science, mental health, etc.
I'm totally all for this. Marijuana should be step one
How about stop redistributing the money in the first place?
That's also an option. But I believe strongly in enducation and mental health because they are crucial to helping people thrive in this society we've constructed.
So do I, and I'm all for charities supporting this cause. They do the job better than government.
Quote from: Piotr on September 21, 2013, 03:54:13 PM
Quote from: imthelolrus on September 21, 2013, 11:31:03 AM
Quote from: Piotr on September 21, 2013, 05:34:22 AM
Quote from: EvACiDe on September 20, 2013, 06:54:03 PM
Quote from: imthelolrus on September 20, 2013, 05:41:33 PM
Quote from: Dudecore on September 18, 2013, 12:49:06 PM
Drugs shouldn't be illegal. Problem solved, black market closed.
This, we can redistribute the money wasted on law enforcement/the "war" on drugs into something useful like education, science, mental health, etc.
I'm totally all for this. Marijuana should be step one
How about stop redistributing the money in the first place?
That's also an option. But I believe strongly in enducation and mental health because they are crucial to helping people thrive in this society we've constructed.
So do I, and I'm all for charities supporting this cause. They do the job better than government.
The government doesn't know how to run ANYTHING
Quote from: EvACiDe on September 21, 2013, 08:53:29 PM
The government doesn't know how to run ANYTHING
I think they can be trusted with running the army and police, and perhaps judiciary.
Quote from: Piotr on September 22, 2013, 04:54:03 AM
Quote from: EvACiDe on September 21, 2013, 08:53:29 PM
The government doesn't know how to run ANYTHING
I think they can be trusted with running the army and police, and perhaps judiciary.
Not without inefficiently allocating its capital ;)
Quote from: EvACiDe on September 21, 2013, 08:53:29 PM
Quote from: Piotr on September 21, 2013, 03:54:13 PM
Quote from: imthelolrus on September 21, 2013, 11:31:03 AM
Quote from: Piotr on September 21, 2013, 05:34:22 AM
Quote from: EvACiDe on September 20, 2013, 06:54:03 PM
Quote from: imthelolrus on September 20, 2013, 05:41:33 PM
Quote from: Dudecore on September 18, 2013, 12:49:06 PM
Drugs shouldn't be illegal. Problem solved, black market closed.
This, we can redistribute the money wasted on law enforcement/the "war" on drugs into something useful like education, science, mental health, etc.
I'm totally all for this. Marijuana should be step one
How about stop redistributing the money in the first place?
That's also an option. But I believe strongly in enducation and mental health because they are crucial to helping people thrive in this society we've constructed.
So do I, and I'm all for charities supporting this cause. They do the job better than government.
The government doesn't know how to run ANYTHING
Oh the government is quite competent at what they do in my opinion, they merely work towards their own goals. Though they may be politicians, they are still people, and I find it to be common for most people I come across to have their own hidden agendas.
But, I could also be an untrusting conspiracy theorist :)
Quote from: Mike_garzone on September 23, 2013, 07:00:51 PM
Quote from: EvACiDe on September 21, 2013, 08:53:29 PM
Quote from: Piotr on September 21, 2013, 03:54:13 PM
Quote from: imthelolrus on September 21, 2013, 11:31:03 AM
Quote from: Piotr on September 21, 2013, 05:34:22 AM
Quote from: EvACiDe on September 20, 2013, 06:54:03 PM
Quote from: imthelolrus on September 20, 2013, 05:41:33 PM
Quote from: Dudecore on September 18, 2013, 12:49:06 PM
Drugs shouldn't be illegal. Problem solved, black market closed.
This, we can redistribute the money wasted on law enforcement/the "war" on drugs into something useful like education, science, mental health, etc.
I'm totally all for this. Marijuana should be step one
How about stop redistributing the money in the first place?
That's also an option. But I believe strongly in enducation and mental health because they are crucial to helping people thrive in this society we've constructed.
So do I, and I'm all for charities supporting this cause. They do the job better than government.
The government doesn't know how to run ANYTHING
Oh the government is quite competent at what they do in my opinion, they merely work towards their own goals. Though they may be politicians, they are still people, and I find it to be common for most people I come across to have their own hidden agendas.
But, I could also be an untrusting conspiracy theorist :)
I still disagree with this. The government is not competent in anything they run even for their own goals. I don't think I can think of one recent action they have taken that hasn't hemorrhaged money. They may know how to set up the foundation of a program but the business aspect has always been out of their grasp
Quote from: Dudecore on September 18, 2013, 12:49:06 PM
Drugs shouldn't be illegal. Problem solved, black market closed.
If only I could give karma..... I need to post more
To say our government is incompetent is kind of a stretch IMO, sure it's not utopia in the USA and other countries, but .poo., it's not Syria here either.
Just a basic infrastructure of getting the proper amount of supplies etc to people, ensuring food and water supply, actually stopping .poo. before it goes down.
Now we may not know what they do all the time, but I feel that if our government was completely incompetent we would barely have Internet access.
Quote from: Taysby on September 28, 2013, 09:18:48 AM
Random tangent.
If mitt Romney would have gotten elected, our country would have been more business like. He knows how to run a business.
I agree with this. He has the experience which is an intangible that cannot be taught.
Quote from: Taysby on September 28, 2013, 09:18:48 AM
Random tangent.
If mitt Romney would have gotten elected, our country would have been more business like. He knows how to run a business.
He doesn't however, know how to not tax people to death in Massacussets. Also, the time machine is not available to you. Mitt Romney is a crony capitalist like the rest of them. Just take your money at gunpoint and give it to his friends.
With all due respect to anyone who believes Democracy works - the differences between Obama and Romney are minuet at best. A two party system gives the illusion of choice, but it's just status quo.
Quote from: Dudecore on September 28, 2013, 10:18:32 PM
Quote from: Taysby on September 28, 2013, 09:18:48 AM
Random tangent.
If mitt Romney would have gotten elected, our country would have been more business like. He knows how to run a business.
He doesn't however, know how to not tax people to death in Massacussets. Also, the time machine is not available to you. Mitt Romney is a crony capitalist like the rest of them. Just take your money at gunpoint and give it to his friends.
With all due respect to anyone who believes Democracy works - the differences between Obama and Romney are minuet at best. A two party system gives the illusion of choice, but it's just status quo.
Democracy is the most effective choice we have IMO
Quote from: EvACiDe on September 29, 2013, 01:25:08 AM
Democracy is the most effective choice we have IMO
Effective choice of what?
Quote from: Piotr on September 29, 2013, 03:56:44 AM
Quote from: EvACiDe on September 29, 2013, 01:25:08 AM
Democracy is the most effective choice we have IMO
Effective choice of what?
Form of govt. Communism is a nice idea, it just doesn't work.
Quote from: EvACiDe on September 29, 2013, 01:00:33 PM
Quote from: Piotr on September 29, 2013, 03:56:44 AM
Quote from: EvACiDe on September 29, 2013, 01:25:08 AM
Democracy is the most effective choice we have IMO
Effective choice of what?
Form of govt. Communism is a nice idea, it just doesn't work.
I don't think communism is a nice idea, I don't fancy being a slave to anyone, especially a slave to 'society'. I see communism not really as just form of government, communism is autocracy (form of government) + socialism (form of economy).
In the US, you used to have republic + free market, now you have democracy + socialism (albeit relatively more free than the EU version).
The most effective form of government is believed to be nomocracy + free market. When law cannot be changed, there's no need for democracy anymore.
I believe the best form of government is Anarcho-capitalism. Free markets + willful engagement. You can have your proverbial cake, and also eat the same cake if you choose.
I think anarchy is vulnerable to wars.
Quote from: Piotr on September 29, 2013, 07:39:46 PM
I think anarchy is vulnerable to wars.
Not using the principles of non-aggression. Which is a tenet of anarchy. I've read some of the criticisms involving the idea that trade may lead to wars and such. I can't debate if an anarchist system would ever work, or that there is a solution. I can argue that anarchy is a system that rejects aggression, and aggressive entities. If anyone doesn't believe anarchy is sufficient for removing aggression then they support aggression. There is nothing wrong, I suppose, with believing democracy is great - but you support an aggressive state with a monopoly on the use of force.
I think the most effective is one that kills everyone who lives there, not good, but EFFECTIVE! ::)
Quote from: Mlerner12 on September 30, 2013, 01:40:41 PM
I think the most effective is one that kills everyone who lives there, not good, but EFFECTIVE! ::)
I LIKE THE WAY YOU THINK MAGGOT! PROMOTION!