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Black-White Bogbrew (post Rotation) 61 cards, 0 sideboard 2 {Temple of Silence} 4 {Godless Shrine} 9 {Swamp} 6 {Plains} 2 {Mutavault} 23 lands 2 {Blood Baron of Vizkopa} 3 {Bogbrew Witch} 4 {Desecration Demon} 4 {Festering Newt} 3 {Tithe Drinker} 16 creatures 4 {Orzhov Charm} 3 {Bubbling Cauldron} 3 {Doom Blade} 3 {Ultimate Price} 3 {Sanguine Bond} 3 {Gift of Immortality} 3 {Read the Bones} 22 other spells Sideboard Notes: If you swap out the shocks for basics, it's a budget deck. Once again, your thoughts are appreciated :)

In my old brew (pun), I played 3 obzedat ghost councils. If you got em, you can replace the Blood Barons with them.

In desperate need of a creature board wipe... Any suggestions?

Blood baron is so much better than obzedat. Also you should consider the whip of Erebos and read the bones

Quote from: Agrajagzz9 on September 15, 2013, 10:52:42 AM
Blood baron is so much better than obzedat. Also you should consider the whip of Erebos and read the bones

Each time Obze comes in, it deals 4 dmg to my opponents if sanguine bloods on the field. I just slipped baron in here because he's hard to kill.

And {Read the Bones} is in there, just like {Read the Decklist} ;D

Howabout {Thrill-kill assassin}? I think I'm gonna have a LOT if fun with Immortality :)

Obzedat and sanguine bond is greedy. You don't really utilize it for anything else. Blood baron is hard to kill and a much smarter play. Also drawing two isn't bad. It is always better to be smart over greedy. It's also easier to cast

Quote from: Agrajagzz9 on September 15, 2013, 05:18:05 PM
Obzedat and sanguine bond is greedy. You don't really utilize it for anything else. Blood baron is hard to kill and a much smarter play. Also drawing two isn't bad. It is always better to be smart over greedy. It's also easier to cast

I agree with {Sanguine Bond}, but {Obzedat Ghost Council} is super hard to remove as well

Quote from: Agrajagzz9 on September 15, 2013, 05:18:05 PM
Obzedat and sanguine bond is greedy. You don't really utilize it for anything else. Blood baron is hard to kill and a much smarter play. Also drawing two isn't bad. It is always better to be smart over greedy. It's also easier to cast

You need much more experience gleaning what decks are supposed to do. Im sorry, but this is the 2nd time you're trying to call me out.

This deck is nothing but lifegain. It's a sac deck. Now with that in mind, look at the deck again

There are potentially 8 {festering newt}s in this deck in addition to the ones that keep coming back thanks to Immortal. It would be stupid NOT to run {sanguine bond}

Lifegain is my wincon. If the bond fails me, this deck turns into desecration demon beat down

Quote from: Agrajagzz9 on September 15, 2013, 05:18:05 PM
It's also easier to cast

I will give you this one tho. Totally easier to cast now that buddy lands are rotating out

And thank you for suggesting the Whip. Called someone up and they explained what it did. I'm guessing these OP artifacts will be the next 'standard staples'

Quote from: Pirate John on September 15, 2013, 06:59:33 PM
And thank you for suggesting the Whip. Called someone up and they explained what it did. I'm guessing these OP artifacts will be the next 'standard staples'

Obbdezat + whip.

Bring ghost council back.
Exile him at end of turn using ghost council's ability.
You now have a permanent obdezat.

I asked a judge for this, it works, and it's evil! :)

That was my thought behind {Gift of immortality}. Oh, You're targeting my enchantment? Sac newt in response... These hard to hurt card combos. Don't you love priority? :)

Obbdezat + whip.

Bring ghost council back.
Exile him at end of turn using ghost council's ability.
You now have a permanent obdezat.

I asked a judge for this, it works, and it's evil! :)
[/quote]

This doesn't sound right to me since the whip says if it leaves the battlefield to exile it instead of putting it anywhere else (I know the ability exiles it but seems the whips exile would take priority)

Eh...so I didn't do the quote right :/

They're both at the beginning of end step, so as acting player, you get to chose the order in which each triggers.

Quote from: Pirate John on September 17, 2013, 07:12:09 PM
They're both at the beginning of end step, so as acting player, you get to chose the order in which each triggers.

Yes...but that would still be leaving the battlefield so it would get exiled by the whip at that point

Quote from: respawned on September 17, 2013, 07:18:48 PM

Quote from: Pirate John on September 17, 2013, 07:12:09 PM
They're both at the beginning of end step, so as acting player, you get to chose the order in which each triggers.

Yes...but that would still be leaving the battlefield so it would get exiled by the whip at that point

This. This is how it works. The whip's last bit is a replacement effect. Think of it like two different "zones." Obzedat has his own little flip zone, and then there's the permanent exile zone. When Obzedat would go to his little corner, the while replaces that and says "no, sit down" and he's exiled permanently.

Whip loses target and Obzedat is classified as a diff creature when he leaves the battlefield. The whip effect triggers but obzedat isn't on the field anymore so it's like sac'ing a creature before someone killspells it... Much more similar to using {act of treason} in conjunction with {cloudshift} or {restoration angel}.

Quote from: Pirate John on September 17, 2013, 07:31:22 PM
Whip loses target and Obzedat is classified as a diff creature when he leaves the battlefield. The whip effect triggers but obzedat isn't on the field anymore so it's like sac'ing a creature before someone killspells it... Much more similar to using {act of treason} in conjunction with {cloudshift} or {restoration angel}.

No. Whip reads "if it would leave the battlefield, exile it instead." It doesn't specify going to the graveyard. Obzedat's eot exile trigger gets replaced with this effect.

You're right. I should really look up the theros cards myself instead of getting friends to recall card text from memory lol. Permenantly exiles obzedate

Why would anyone want a permanent Obzedat? I mean, you don't have to exile him. It's all may triggers.... So I don't get it?... Just me though

Quote from: DylanW18 on September 17, 2013, 08:39:38 PM
Why would anyone want a permanent Obzedat? I mean, you don't have to exile him. It's all may triggers.... So I don't get it?... Just me though

Basically the whip will exile him regardless of what happens after bringing him back from the yard

Edit...at the beginning of the end step or if it leaves battlefield before that

Yea, the whip's effect will happen in place of obzedat. No more flickering obzedat. Vanilla 5/5 with ETB effect

Quote from: Pirate John on September 17, 2013, 10:24:08 PM
Yea, the whip's effect will happen in place of obzedat. No more flickering obzedat. Vanilla 5/5 with ETB effect

Still a decent play for coming back from the yard thou

It is still a good target for the whip. Basically a 7/7 lifelink with haste for 2BB.

I wouldn't mind Aurelia, Angel of Seren or Sire f insanity either :)

I'm gonna make the argument that Ashen Rider from THS is the best Whip target. Gain 5 life, deal 5 damage, exile 2 permanents for 2BB? It's a thing.

Quote from: Vileo on September 18, 2013, 02:16:35 AM
I'm gonna make the argument that Ashen Rider from THS is the best Whip target. Gain 5 life, deal 5 damage, exile 2 permanents for 2BB? It's a thing.

You'd only be able to exile one permanent by using the whip...still a nice play thou

Quote from: respawned on September 18, 2013, 07:04:04 AMYou'd only be able to exile one permanent by using the whip...still a nice play thou

youre right. I thought it was when it left, not when it dies.

no, the whip brings it back.  then the ruling gets tricky.

you choose to use obdezats ability to exile it.  Well the whip looks at it for a second.  Debating in it's head weather this is ok, then is happy that it's exiled, and leaves it alone.  Obdezat comes back by its ability like it would next turn :)

Quote from: FlickerYourOwnIdentity on September 19, 2013, 12:19:49 AM
no, the whip brings it back.  then the ruling gets tricky.

you choose to use obdezats ability to exile it.  Well the whip looks at it for a second.  Debating in it's head weather this is ok, then is happy that it's exiled, and leaves it alone.  Obdezat comes back by its ability like it would next turn :)

Gonna wait until it pops up on the FAQ. Still think its exiled forever once it's been resurrected by whip

What makes Obzedat good is that he blinks. A vanilla 5/5 beater with ETB effects isn't as good. Obzedat is hard to get rid of. He's efficient, drains life in the control matchup, gains life in the Aggro matchup, and forces your opponent to leave a blocker, or take 7 each turn. That's a big deal. Plus, if you need a good blocker, he's good at that too. Really a 5/5 card. No need to stop him using whip. Let Ghost Daddy do his thing

Quote from: Pirate John on September 19, 2013, 12:48:04 AM

Quote from: FlickerYourOwnIdentity on September 19, 2013, 12:19:49 AM
no, the whip brings it back.  then the ruling gets tricky.

you choose to use obdezats ability to exile it.  Well the whip looks at it for a second.  Debating in it's head weather this is ok, then is happy that it's exiled, and leaves it alone.  Obdezat comes back by its ability like it would next turn :)

Gonna wait until it pops up on the FAQ. Still think its exiled forever once it's been resurrected by whip

I agree

Quote from: DylanW18 on September 19, 2013, 12:52:48 AM
What makes Obzedat good is that he blinks. A vanilla 5/5 beater with ETB effects isn't as good. Obzedat is hard to get rid of. He's efficient, drains life in the control matchup, gains life in the Aggro matchup, and forces your opponent to leave a blocker, or take 7 each turn. That's a big deal. Plus, if you need a good blocker, he's good at that too. Really a 5/5 card. No need to stop him using whip. Let Ghost Daddy do his thing

Def let him do his thing while he's on the field...the whip is just extra when he does die