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Magic (The Gathering) => Rules => Topic started by: Bilygote on August 19, 2013, 12:15:57 PM

Title: Swerve vs Hexproof
Post by: Bilygote on August 19, 2013, 12:15:57 PM
Situation: player A casts {Arachnus Web} targeting  player B's {Riverfall Mimic}, which is player B's only creature

In response: Player B casts {swerve}, and changes the target to Player A's {Tangle Angler}

Player A has {Asceticism} on the BF and 5 creatures, 2 {Rhox Charger}, 2 {Blight Mamba}, & 1 {Tangle Angler}

How should this resolve?
Title: Re: Swerve vs Hexproof
Post by: Double-O-Scotch on August 19, 2013, 12:30:48 PM
{asceticism} is in play. He can't {swerve}. There is no legal target to choose.
Title: Re: Swerve vs Hexproof
Post by: jmreardon on August 19, 2013, 12:50:53 PM
This play is legal. Swerve doesn't target a creature, and the controller of Arachnus Web can legally target his own creature with Arachnus Web.
Title: Re: Swerve vs Hexproof
Post by: Double-O-Scotch on August 19, 2013, 01:35:24 PM
Touché! Nice find. {swerve} is better than I thought it was...
Title: Re: Swerve vs Hexproof
Post by: scarsabrex on August 19, 2013, 01:49:24 PM
The new targeting still has to be legal...
Title: Re: Swerve vs Hexproof
Post by: Mattao19 on August 19, 2013, 01:53:27 PM
Quote from: scarsabrex on August 19, 2013, 01:49:24 PM
The new targeting still has to be legal...

True but it's the owner that's targeting the Hexproof creature therefore it's legal bc the opponent isn't targeting.
Title: Re: Swerve vs Hexproof
Post by: Bilygote on August 19, 2013, 01:54:49 PM
Thanks
Title: Re: Swerve vs Hexproof
Post by: Toast616 on August 21, 2013, 01:18:57 AM
But isn't player b ,the controller of swerve, giving web a new target? thus changing essential ownership of the spell to b, because b is choosing the new target and targeting a's creatures which can't happen because of asceticism?
Title: Re: Swerve vs Hexproof
Post by: scarsabrex on August 21, 2013, 01:26:52 AM
Wait i see what's going on, i mixed up who had the {asceticism}. This works perfectly.
Title: Re: Swerve vs Hexproof
Post by: Wally on August 21, 2013, 01:50:52 AM
Quote from: Double-O-Scotch on August 19, 2013, 12:30:48 PM
{asceticism} is in play. He can't {swerve}. There is no legal target to choose.

Swerve needs to specify a new target on resolution. It however cannot. Swerve may be cast but the target is not changed.

From the card rulings on swerve.

10/1/2008   You don't choose the new target for the spell until Swerve resolves. You must change the target if possible. However, you can't change the target to an illegal target. If there are no legal targets, the target isn't changed. It doesn't matter if the original target of that spell has somehow become illegal.

Title: Re: Swerve vs Hexproof
Post by: Wally on August 21, 2013, 03:31:47 AM
I think what is being lost here is the understanding on who is 'Changing the target' of the original spell.
From my understanding the caster of {Swerve} is the one who nominates the new target not the web's caster, and because of that, the caster of {Swerve} is not able to target his opponent's creatures due to the pseudo Hexproof.
Title: Re: Swerve vs Hexproof
Post by: Kaleo42 on August 21, 2013, 04:34:12 AM
The specific rulings on swerve very clearly state that this can get around hexproof. Swerve does not target anything with hexproof at any point. Swerve targets and effects a spell, whatever choices would be legal for that spell's controller are legal for swerve.
Title: Re: Swerve vs Hexproof
Post by: Wally on August 21, 2013, 12:04:22 PM
Ok just to clarify then. The caster of swerve does not nominate the new target but the resolution of it forces the original spells caster to find another valid target?