Esper control
Creatures:
3 { restoration angel}
2 {augur of bolas}
Planeswalkers:
2 {jace architect of thought}
1 {jace,memory adept}
Spells:
3 {sphinx's revalation}
4 {supreme verdict}
2 {terminus}
4 {Azorius charm}
4 {think twice}
2 {far and away}
2 {dissapate}
2 {syncopate}
1{blind obediance}
2 {doom blade}
Land 26:
4 {godless shrine}
4 {hallowed fountain}
3 {watery grave}
4 {drowned catacomb}
4 {glacial fortress}
3 {isolated chapel}
3 {nephalia drownyard}
1 {island}
I'm deciding between this and my azorius control help needed!!! Not going to play snapcaster because at my lgs every other deck plays scavenging oozes:)
Sideboard:
1 {blind obedience}
2 {negate}
1{syncopate}
1 {sorin lord of innistrad}
1 {curse of deaths hold}
2 {rest in peace}
1 {detention sphere}
1 {Oblivion ring}
1 {sin collector}
2 {far and away}
1 {aertherling}
1 {woodcut crawler}
Maybe more counter spells? Such as {path to exile}, {syncopate}?
I also like to run some {unsummon} in case I miss that counter spell
Not a big fan of {Jace, Architect of Thought} also try, if you can to main deck or sideboard basics, some people have been running RDW with a playset of {Burning Earth}s.
Quote from: EvACiDe on August 11, 2013, 05:41:27 PM
Maybe more counter spells? Such as {path to exile}, {syncopate}?
This is standard
Quote from: Hunteroffire9 on August 11, 2013, 05:50:32 PM
Quote from: EvACiDe on August 11, 2013, 05:41:27 PM
Maybe more counter spells? Such as {path to exile}, {syncopate}?
This is standard
Syncopate is standard. But as for path, you're correct my bad
Should I add detention spheres? They can also help with planeswalkers and burning earth
Quote from: EvACiDe on August 11, 2013, 05:45:54 PM
I also like to run some {unsummon} in case I miss that counter spell
I like {far in away} because it can also deal with hexpropf
Quote from: Hunteroffire9 on August 11, 2013, 05:51:29 PM
Should I add detention spheres? They can also help with planeswalkers and burning earth
Yes. Run d-sphere it's a good card to hold onto and not play right away, save it for an opponents bomb
Quote from: Hunteroffire9 on August 11, 2013, 05:52:46 PM
Quote from: EvACiDe on August 11, 2013, 05:45:54 PM
I also like to run some {unsummon} in case I miss that counter spell
I like {far in away} because it can also deal with hexpropf
True, I'd keep some in but you can't beat unsummons {U} mana cost :)
Even consider side boarding {negate} and {essence scatter} they are situational yes, but you can adjust accordingly for example add {essence scatter} for aggro decks and {negate} for more spell heavy decks
Quote from: EvACiDe on August 11, 2013, 05:54:21 PM
Quote from: Hunteroffire9 on August 11, 2013, 05:52:46 PM
Quote from: EvACiDe on August 11, 2013, 05:45:54 PM
I also like to run some {unsummon} in case I miss that counter spell
I like {far in away} because it can also deal with hexpropf
True, I'd keep some in but you can't beat unsummons {U} mana cost :)
K thx ill atleast but 2-3 in the sb. For like fast decks and token decks. I need help with the removal I don't know how much to play and which ones.
I usually run 8-12 removal spells. And after an unsummon, a nice {essence scatter} is always fun ;)
Including board wipes i have 11 removal spells is that enough. And do you think I chose the right targeted removal like doom blade and ultimate price.
Quote from: Hunteroffire9 on August 11, 2013, 06:03:28 PM
Including board wipes i have 11 removal spells is that enough. And do you think I chose the right targeted removal like doom blade and ultimate price.
Doom blade is a good choice. A good sideboard removal spell would be {human frailty}
No one really plays humans except burning-tree or huntmaster.
Lots of ppl play burning tree
Yeah, any other cards
You think I need I decided to go for the mill win con instead of the sorin/lingering souls
Hmmmm, the mill win con might be tough. You need to hang in there for quite a few turns. In that case, have you tried {traumatize}?
What do you mean it's tough?
Esper control uses nephalia drownyard and jace? Or I can beat down.
So much draw card you always get atleast one of the 5 :)
Put terminus in sb for aggro/tokens. Add 2 more augur
Ok I see what you're saying. What abou {cancel}?
Quote from: EvACiDe on August 11, 2013, 06:27:18 PM
Ok I see what you're saying. What abou {cancel}?
Dissapate is better every deck at my lgs is either aggro jund or American about 75% of decks are aggro so terminus is great
{dissapate} is the same of cancel but better.
Just running {B} for Doom Blade and Away?
No, for ultimate price and for the Maine reason why esper is esper...{nephalia drownyard} espers win con
*Coughs* {Burning earth} *Coughs*
Quote from: Hunteroffire9 on August 11, 2013, 06:30:03 PM
{dissapate} is the same of cancel but better.
But why have 4 counters when u can have 8?
Then play syncopate
Syncopate costs more usually
I noticed kaleo version had {curse of deaths hold} do you think I should play this over ultimate price or just play curse in the sb.
Shoulda I drop something for syncopate and what?
I'm really liking this deck, I think I tend to like my decks more when I don't net deck:) time to make sb!
Alright finished sideboard!!
Quote from: CrackaLacka on August 11, 2013, 06:57:56 PM
*Coughs* {Burning earth} *Coughs*
My buddy tore apart his USA control because of this card.
{Snapcaster Mage}? He's almost a must in control. Is he not?
Quote from: Mattao19 on August 11, 2013, 09:20:30 PM
{Snapcaster Mage}? He's almost a must in control. Is he not?
Every other deck at my lgs plays {scavenging oozes} it's not worth if trust me, and I have cards to deal with burning earth.
Your only hope against burning earth is to counter it.
Quote from: EvACiDe on August 11, 2013, 09:48:14 PM
Your only hope against burning earth is to counter it.
Or oblivion ring, and d sphere after sideboarding.
Quote from: Hunteroffire9 on August 11, 2013, 09:30:24 PM
Quote from: Mattao19 on August 11, 2013, 09:20:30 PM
{Snapcaster Mage}? He's almost a must in control. Is he not?
Every other deck at my lgs plays {scavenging oozes} it's not worth if trust me, and I have cards to deal with burning earth.
Still you have removal, and plenty of ways to deal with the ooze plus if they don't Snaps gives you so many options.
Also {Tribute to Hunger} and {Devour Flesh} for those pesky Bant decks
What should I take out? And in sb and main board I also have 2 far and away main board and 2 side boarded.
3 Ætherling, that's a win con in itself. Also, 2 {Aetherize} for sideboard. Also, two Auger and two {Archaomsncer} instead of four Auger. And add in 3 {Render Silent}.
Quote from: Mlerner12 on August 11, 2013, 10:54:16 PM
3 Ætherling, that's a win con in itself. Also, 2 {Aetherize} for sideboard. Also, two Auger and two {Archaomsncer} instead of four Auger. And add in 3 {Render Silent}.
What do i put aetherise in against ? And archaomancer is not good because so many scavenging oozes and if there where no oozes i would play snapcaster :)
Aetherize against tokens or aggro, both big right now. Also, I see your point. {Elite Arcanist} for rizzles, though.
True there are lots of {Scavenging Ooze} but you have many ways to deal with them as they aren't indestructible or Hexproof. Like dont disregard cards bc of them
Ok my only consern I have with aetherise is that when I play it on turn 4 when my opponent attacks during the second mainfase I will be open to a {burning earth}, and not being able to counter, unless i had an o ring or det sphere i would still lose 3 but only have 2 mana open by that time unless I have blind obediance his creatures would probaly have haste if it is rdw.
This is why I am nervous about aetherise, but it would still be good agaist tokens except allot of token decks have voice and thragtusk so it would backfire, and I already have terminus which would work much better:) not trying to be rude to your comment just making an explanation and not just rejecting:)
Whenever I see a card I cinda have a problem with thinking about every situation on how to use the card :/
I gues that's why I'm good at magic:P
I think snap caster is too good to even worry about ooze at my fnm ooze runs rampant but snap caster is still viable. I also play esper control and have found ooze to be extremely easy to kill. It dies to nearly every removal esper plays. As for counter spells the best main deck number is 4, 2 dissipates and 2 syncopate. The reason being is they both exile the spell countered which is huge in the format. The reason I split 2,2 is because syncopate is both good on the play and the draw and dissipate is only good when your're on the play. As for jace, architect of thought, he is awsome. He significantly slows down most aggro decks, gives card advantage, and his alt is awsome. Two other planes walkers to look into are tamiyo and sorin. As for sideboards I have found {Lifebane Zombie} and {Council of the Absolute} to be super good and it is almost essential to run one more non-targeting removal in the sideboard for hex proof.
I don't have any Tammy I'm trading off allot of my innistrad block stuff but I have 2 sorins, should I sb or main board and take out what?
So I should cut 1 dissipate and what else? I'm thinking about cutting ultimate price.
Or should I sb aetherling because allot of people play aggro ?
3 SB Ætherling, 2 Absolutesс, 2 Sorin. Replace Dissapate with Render Silent.
Quote from: Mlerner12 on August 12, 2013, 10:34:01 AM
3 SB Ætherling, 2 Absolutesс, 2 Sorin. Replace Dissapate with Render Silent.
I don't need any sb aetherling my version is already heavy on win cons..and dissapate is easier to cast and better than render silent especially when allot of people play junk rites. And what do I take out for sorin
Alright made some changes dropped 1 dissapate and 1 aetherling and added 2 syncopates. I moved the things I took out to the sb.
4 drown yards is too much IMO I feel like 2-3 is good (yes it's how you win) but you don't need 4 and again playtest Snaps they give your hand an extra x cards where x=graveyard and if they have an ooze kill it with your blades or force them to sac it. You run plenty of removal and none of the removal care about power/toughness so even if the ooze is a 9/9 a doom blade still wins same with a sup. verdict. And if they have no ooze or gy control you can play your gy it's a no brainer so I suggest -1 Nep. DY -1 Ult. Price +4 Snaps idk what other 2 cards to cut lol
There's only one problem about what you saide... I don't have any snaps and Spent 50 dollars finishing my sphinx's revalation set:/
Ohhhh ok lol my bad then I was going with the assumption that you had them my bad. But still I say drop Ult. Price and 1-2 dyards and put in something better
What would I put in for price?
I feel like {Tragic Slip} or a sac a creature like {Tribute to Hunger} or {Devour Flesh}
I already have 2 Maine board far and away and 2 in the sb would that be to much sac?
I've decided to add {devour flesh}, taking out ultimate price.
Idk I prefer tribut or devour over far/away plus with the meta being what it is with Hexproof yes sac abilities are a great way to win
No one really plays hexproof/aura where i play maybe only1 person each Friday but they always do well so I might prepare but I also have 4 verdicts 2 terminus 2 far and away and 1 devour flesh.
I could drop devour for blind because ALLot of people play aggro, should i do this, and the extort would be good.
For ultimate price, use far/away becaye
I already have 2 {far and away} mb I think that's enough^
Ok true and blind will help idk in Esper possibilities seem endless like so much to think about in control
That's why I hope kaleo gets on:/
Post in Rules I feel like he lives on that page lol
He saide he would look when we gets home from work about 50 minutes ago.
True and I'd listen to everything he says lol I swear he's a genius or something he won his game day (I think you saw his deck already) it's a different version of Esper Control
Yeah he is, his game day was 8 rounds...
That'd be so sick I love Magic tourneys they're awesome
Last gameday I did was gatecrash , i played 2 first one i did went 5-2
And other one I got a fat pack and somewhere in the top 4
That's sick I have yet to do gamedays but I love prerelease a and FNMs
Yeah I have to change my deck allot, 3 weeks ago I placed first with 4c rites homebrew but I stomped everybody and it was to easy so i switched decks to gruul aggro and got 2nd. I've never done a tournament with a deck with blue before but I love control and play if online so I built this.
I guess kaleo is bussy.
Quote from: Hunteroffire9 on August 12, 2013, 10:14:00 PM
I guess kaleo is bussy.
yes he is online maybe he will comment..
Hey sorry for the delay again. I check rules posts every few minutes when I check for a text or email because they are quick and easy for me to answer. This however has been diffiult and I wanted to do it justice.
Judging from your build and some of the comments it would appear that your meta is ruled by aggro, predominately green from the looks of it. {Woodlot crawler} in the board can be huge in stalling and even turning agressive against them. You probably dont need the aggressive board I use against more controlling decks that mistakenly side out their removal after game one. I strongly prefer a minimum of 6 counters but an overrun of aggro can justify lower amounts of counters. However {syncopate} is the more relevant of the two against aggro. Perhaps 3 and 1 in favor of sync.
The last and most important recommendation is 2 {blind obedience} in the main. They slow down aggro but more importantly shut down control (slowly). The constant extort turns every spell into a slow kill spell. It will have to be up to you which cards are least relevant to make room for them.
Quote from: Kaleo42 on August 13, 2013, 02:01:34 AM
Hey sorry for the delay again. I check rules posts every few minutes when I check for a text or email because they are quick and easy for me to answer. This however has been diffiult and I wanted to do it justice.
Judging from your build and some of the comments it would appear that your meta is ruled by aggro, predominately green from the looks of it. {Woodlot crawler} in the board can be huge in stalling and even turning agressive against them. You probably dont need the aggressive board I use against more controlling decks that mistakenly side out their removal after game one. I strongly prefer a minimum of 6 counters but an overrun of aggro can justify lower amounts of counters. However {syncopate} is the more relevant of the two against aggro. Perhaps 3 and 1 in favor of sync.
The last and most important recommendation is 2 {blind obedience} in the main. They slow down aggro but more importantly shut down control (slowly). The constant extort turns every spell into a slow kill spell. It will have to be up to you which cards are least relevant to make room for them.
Do you feel like 4 drown yards is too much?
4 is too much. In a fast pased aggro meta you don't want it in your opening hand. Also to have 4 drown yards active that's 16 mana. So in that regaude 3 active drown yards in not any different than 4 active ones. In card terms that's about 36 card difference. Also against aggressive decks you need to be trying to stabilize and that may take some time.
I've ran Esper Control for a while now and consistently win FNM's with my build, personally I think main board 2 Detention Spheres is too good not to have, also {Warped Physique} is very surprisingly good unconditional removal, much better than Ultimate Price imo
I will do some testing and see how 3 works.
I got sick pf warp physice being barely too small when I need it most. Doom blade took it's spot. As for drownyard I think three is good and will occasionally side one out if I plan on being more aggressive.
Quote from: Kaleo42 on August 13, 2013, 11:36:46 AM
I got sick pf warp physice being barely too small when I need it most. Doom blade took it's spot. As for drownyard I think three is good and will occasionally side one out if I plan on being more aggressive.
I also run 3 drown yard, 4 is not necessary, unless u get face stomped by turn 3, which is unlikely, you are almost guaranteed to see a drownyard as a 3 of.
Alright, what should I put in for the drownyard?
I'd say another dissipate or syncopate. Or if you have another sphinx rev.
Quote from: Hunteroffire9 on August 13, 2013, 07:22:40 PM
Alright, what should I put in for the drownyard?
Basic land. No more revelations! You are not green you cant rqmp enough to make them relevant. Taking a turn to rev into 2 land and a rev is so much worse than reving into 2 land and any other spell in the early game.
Listen to him lol I was just saying
Quote from: Mattao19 on August 13, 2013, 08:57:39 PM
Listen to him lol I was just saying
Nothing against you, that is just what everyone tries to say about esper. When you stop and think about it it becomes clear that OP cards do not always need to be played as 4 of's. There are lots of factors to consider that are all to often over looked. In this case the mana and time to cast the spell. The format has sped up a lot and leaves very little if any forgiveness for taking a turn to cast a revelation without having something really good to follow up with. 3-5 life revelations are a single creature's attack now days where as a year ago that was the entire swing for most attack phases.
Alright changed it to an island. Any other changes do you recommend?
Quote from: Kaleo42 on August 13, 2013, 09:17:50 PM
Quote from: Mattao19 on August 13, 2013, 08:57:39 PM
Listen to him lol I was just saying
Nothing against you, that is just what everyone tries to say about esper. When you stop and think about it it becomes clear that OP cards do not always need to be played as 4 of's. There are lots of factors to consider that are all to often over looked. In this case the mana and time to cast the spell. The format has sped up a lot and leaves very little if any forgiveness for taking a turn to cast a revelation without having something really good to follow up with. 3-5 life revelations are a single creature's attack now days where as a year ago that was the entire swing for most attack phases.
Oh I never took offense I am an aggro player myself but all my friends play Esper so I know how to play it. But I think you're a lot more knowledgable on it lol
Alright once i get back from Vermont i will build it(I've been doing online testing)
I dont like online control, judging the opponent's reactions and expressions is half of control in my play. I understand working with what you have is good, but a harder control like this it tough to test without a readable opponent.
I have not actualy built it yet because I'm on vacation just using cockatrice, but this deck will be for real life play
Quote from: Hunteroffire9 on August 14, 2013, 03:03:54 PM
I have not actualy built it yet because I'm on vacation just using cockatrice, but this deck will be for real life play
What's cockatrice?
Anymore ideas ?
What about {cyclonic rift}?
Mm I already have board wipes to destroy everything and azorius charm to bounce:/ and btw rift is amazing in edh bounces all there artifacts destroyed there tempo makes then replay everything return mana ramp artifacts to hand make them replay commander.. So good play it in edh;)
Just figured I'd mention it because its pretty much a staple in standard right now
Quote from: EvACiDe on August 16, 2013, 07:17:10 PM
Just figured I'd mention it because its pretty much a staple in standard right now
Not trying to be rude but how is it a staple if no competative decks run it.. Except maybe in the sb in American midrange...
Quote from: bravado883 on August 16, 2013, 08:37:58 PM
Meh, {Cyclonic Rift} is one more way to combat {Burning Earth} among other things. I think it's a pretty darn good, and could quite possibly become a staple after rotation. I honestly think it's underplayed right now.
He made my point perfectly