User accused: Lmink
Reason: in the "Birdbrain's Art Contest" he made new accounts just to add votes so he could win the contest. This violates the "Do Not Lie" tenet of iMtG law.
Evidence:
Quote from: Piotr on July 31, 2013, 08:21:39 PM
Voting log for the poll in question. Every single but one vote for Imink's is by 0 posts user.
id_member real_name label
12068 Imink Imink's
12691 Cuzzig Imink's
12694 CallmeCRASH Imink's
12705 Turtel Imink's
12714 Dealhome Imink's
12754 Imtheelephant Imink's
12798 (.Y.) Imink's
12857 Fluxcap1 Imink's
12883 jAzz Imink's
Victims:
Myself. Infinitive Divinity (who should have first place) and anyone else who participated in the art contest.
Thoughts? As a victim and with this substantial evidence by Piotr, I feel that he is certainly guilty.
Wow...just...wow.
And he wasn't exactly sneaky about it with the name choices, lol. That's awful!
Quote from: LadyGrixis on July 31, 2013, 09:22:57 PM
And he wasn't exactly sneaky about it with the name choices, lol. That's awful!
For sure! He has a chance to defend himself of course.
So, does it go to InfinitiveSivinity?
Quote from: Mlerner12 on July 31, 2013, 09:37:38 PM
So, does it go to InfinitiveSivinity?
If it is decided that Lmink is guilty, yes. He will get first, I second, and birdbrain will have to do a rerun for third.
Quote from: Mlerner12 on July 31, 2013, 09:37:38 PM
So, does it go to InfinitiveSivinity?
the contest? Yes, infinitedivinity won. And I think I'll throw in extra prizes as well for the winners. I think we also need a way to make contests safer. So what are we going to do about this?
Quote from: Birdbrain on July 31, 2013, 09:44:21 PM
Quote from: Mlerner12 on July 31, 2013, 09:37:38 PM
So, does it go to InfinitiveSivinity?
the contest? Yes, infinitedivinity won. And I think I'll throw in extra prizes as well for the winners. I think we also need a way to make contests safer. So what are we going to do about this?
Well, Piotr has proven that he can monitor who votes for who. I don't see another way to cheat in this kind of thing outside out what we've just probably caught Lmink doing.
From a mod perspective, I know I will be monitoring these contests done by this kind of voting much more closely.
Time for a dislike.
Don't neg karma anyone until it is resolved, "innocent until proven guilty", let's hear the defense...
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on July 31, 2013, 10:04:18 PM
Don't neg karma anyone until it is resolved, "innocent until proven guilty", let's hear the defense...
Hold on, I gotta load up on popcorn and soda.
I actually disliked because of a differing reason.
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on July 31, 2013, 10:04:18 PM
Don't neg karma anyone until it is resolved, "innocent until proven guilty", let's hear the defense...
Precisely. Let's ease up on the assumptions and give the man a chance to defend himself. You all would like the same thing if accused, so let's afford him the opportunity.
Quote from: Mlerner12 on July 31, 2013, 10:06:31 PM
I actually disliked because of a differing reason.
I not judging you Mlerner, I just know people like Slenderbro hit somewhere around -30 karma during a trial.
Wow...
Yep he said it in Keyeto's trial
Quote from: Slenderbro on July 30, 2013, 10:49:45 PM
Quote from: Ducky on July 29, 2013, 03:11:39 PM
Ok we'll my 25 cents is worth more than yours.
First off it not your problem and second of all fast no took a long f ing time excuse my language. Took way too long. Now with you vise or what ever your name is you trying to butt in only causes problems you have no point here besides saying what someone else all ready said neg karma me if you like and you will finde yourself on the other end of neg karma. So plz just leave this post alone
You need to relax.... Dont threaten people about neg karma or you will find yourself in the same spot i was at... Around -30.
Just sit back and dont look at this thread for a while. :-)
Voice of reason, have a nice day
How long do we want to give him? 48h?
48 hrs isn't necessary I fully take responsibility for what I have done. My reasoning behind this was me trying to get my friend a nice gift for his birthday I do realize that the ethics behind this was wrong and incredibly low I apologize to the rightful winner.i will gladly take the punishment that will follow I assume that what I've done deserves a serious punishment negative karma could and should be part of it fell free to banish me or something of that sort but just so you know I do enjoy being part of this community and I do hope to rejoin it when you decide it's ready.
- I'm sorry
Sincerely Imink
Congratulations honest winners
Well then. There we have it. Imink is guilty of being honest about lying.
Quote from: Dudecore on July 31, 2013, 11:33:20 PM
Well then. There we have it. Imink is guilty of being honest about lying.
I'm sorry, I know we need to be a little serious here and all.
But That was funny :D
Ok maybe I'm the only one here that thinks this but I don't believe he lied. What he did was a dick move all around I will grant you that. But when you guys do contests like this you need to be more thorough with the rules. He found a way to beat the system and he's being punished for it, why? I 100% agree that it was a dick move on his part and completely unsportsmen like but I wouldn't call it cheating I think the blame should fall on the people who set up the contest with out being more thorough with the rules. Look at it in a wider perspective and like someone else said he put his own name in the new names. It would have taken 2 seconds for someone to post that only one vote per ipaddress or no user without a join date of the day before the contest is alowed to vote. Or something like that. Like I said before it was a dick move but with out rules to govern the contest is it still wrong I don't think it was. Still a dick thing to do though.
As pitor says "Logic is the ultimate law." And logic points out that any one in the contest had the abilty to do this but didn't and that's not his fault.
If you wanted the winning prize (I believe it was an altered beast token), whitedrake does commissions, and I can say for certain that if you asked him to make one for you he would happily do it.
As for whether it was against the rules to make multiple accounts and vote for himself, that's like not telling the cops the whole story when they question you. You didn't lie to them, but you still withheld evidence, which is illegal. Just how I see it.
Anoobass
I don't feel like he broke the rules of the contest, because as far as I see - it does not prohibit the use of multiple accounts for voting. However, lies of omission are still lies. Breaking iMtG law is still breaking iMtG law.
Next time itd probably be best to have the finalist to vote for their favorites, that way there is no discrepancy. If actual value is on the line.
And for the record: I'd like a Whitedrake token - I don't know what one is, but it sounds incredible.
Quote from: Cal8301 on August 01, 2013, 12:05:57 AM
Ok maybe I'm the only one here that thinks this but I don't believe he lied. What he did was a dick move all around I will grant you that. But when you guys do contests like this you need to be more thorough with the rules. He found a way to beat the system and he's being punished for it, why? I 100% agree that it was a dick move on his part and completely unsportsmen like but I wouldn't call it cheating I think the blame should fall on the people who set up the contest with out being more thorough with the rules. Look at it in a wider perspective and like someone else said he put his own name in the new names. It would have taken 2 seconds for someone to post that only one vote per ipaddress or no user without a join date of the day before the contest is alowed to vote. Or something like that. Like I said before it was a dick move but with out rules to govern the contest is it still wrong I don't think it was. Still a dick thing to do though.
As pitor says "Logic is the ultimate law." And logic points out that any one in the contest had the abilty to do this but didn't and that's not his fault.
Thats like saying its not cheating to study the answer sheet of a test.
Quote from: Anoobass on August 01, 2013, 12:13:47 AM
If you wanted the winning prize (I believe it was an altered beast token), whitedrake does commissions, and I can say for certain that if you asked him to make one for you he would happily do it.
As for whether it was against the rules to make multiple accounts and vote for himself, that's like not telling the cops the whole story when they question you. You didn't lie to them, but you still withheld evidence, which is illegal. Just how I see it.
Anoobass
I think it's two different to be compared to that cause I didn't see him withheld anything he came out and said it was him. Also more often than not individual questioning is thrown out as hear say unless there's physical evidence to support it or it was the last statement given b4 death. Btw I have a ba in criminal justice. So that's why I'm looking at it the way I am. Also withholding facts on a case that are found out latter usually has the result of the charge of interfering with a police investigation. But it's not lying.
Well you have me there, I get my info from law and order and NCIS, so I kind of only know basics, but either way, still a crime.
Quote from: Dudecore on August 01, 2013, 12:20:52 AM
I don't feel like he broke the rules of the contest, because as far as I see - it does not prohibit the use of multiple accounts for voting. However, lies of omission are still lies. Breaking iMtG law is still breaking iMtG law.
Next time itd probably be best to have the finalist to vote for their favorites, that way there is no discrepancy. If actual value is on the line.
And for the record: I'd like a Whitedrake token - I don't know what one is, but it sounds incredible.
Like I said I don't see we're he lied by omission. Did anyone ask him up front if he was doing this until the contest was over. Cause from the looks of it the first time someone called him on it he said yes that's what he did so I still don't see how he lied.
Obstruction of Justice is still a crime, correct?
That isn't apt in this case. All of the evidence of his guilt was provided upfront, and he immediately confessed to being guilty. No justice was obstructed. Also, I'd say since he didnt actually "win", and didnt receive any monetary gain - there is not a victim.
The rightful winner is flicker, even by Iminks own admission. Imink is guilty of assuming multiple aliases, which upon questioning he confessed.
Quote from: YumiBug on August 01, 2013, 12:22:05 AM
Quote from: Cal8301 on August 01, 2013, 12:05:57 AM
Ok maybe I'm the only one here that thinks this but I don't believe he lied. What he did was a dick move all around I will grant you that. But when you guys do contests like this you need to be more thorough with the rules. He found a way to beat the system and he's being punished for it, why? I 100% agree that it was a dick move on his part and completely unsportsmen like but I wouldn't call it cheating I think the blame should fall on the people who set up the contest with out being more thorough with the rules. Look at it in a wider perspective and like someone else said he put his own name in the new names. It would have taken 2 seconds for someone to post that only one vote per ipaddress or no user without a join date of the day before the contest is alowed to vote. Or something like that. Like I said before it was a dick move but with out rules to govern the contest is it still wrong I don't think it was. Still a dick thing to do though.
As pitor says "Logic is the ultimate law." And logic points out that any one in the contest had the abilty to do this but didn't and that's not his fault.
Thats like saying its not cheating to study the answer sheet of a test.
Then using notes from class on a test is cheating as well even if the teacher allows it. Even though its two completely different scenario's.
Quote from: Dudecore on August 01, 2013, 12:34:06 AM
Obstruction of Justice is still a crime, correct?
That isn't apt in this case. All of the evidence of his guilt was provided upfront, and he immediately confessed to being guilty. No justice was obstructed. Also, I'd say since he didnt actually "win", and didnt receive any monetary gain - there is not a victim.
The rightful winner is flicker, even by Iminks own admission. Imink is guilty of lying about his aliases, which upon questioning he confessed.
Like I said if he told the truth after the first person asked him how did he lie? Look at it like this if he would have said In the fourm that he was doing this and nothing in the rules said he couldn't and he did it how would you dq him for it? And it's only lying if he dodged the question or flat out answered false to it which he did neither.
I didn't lie I found a loophole?
I'm not actually even entirely disagreeing with you.
I think that he's most certainly guilty of run-on sentences. His confession is lacking the most basic of punctuation. As far as lying? Well he had to be caught lying, which he was not. His omission of the truth comes from the fact that he did not confess to the fact that he was unfairly stacking the deck in his favor by his own accord. He would have likely accepted the prize, had it not been for this trial. That is a lie through omission.
But since it was not written as "1 vote per entrant" or "only one vote per iOS device" it would CLEARLY be against the rules. However it was not, and he operated unfairly and in a dickly manner.
I do not think I deserve the prize. And I also didn't violate imgt law is that correct?
Quote from: Imink on August 01, 2013, 12:55:16 AM
I do not think I deserve the prize. And I also didn't violate imgt law is that correct?
That's my take on it. To be honest I think you screwed your self by not just coming out and saying what your were doing as it wasn't Against the rules. But you said you were in the wrong and screwed your self so karma kinda got you pretty quick on this one for pulling a dick move then screwing your self out of the prize.
I agree
Quote from: Imink on August 01, 2013, 12:55:16 AM
I do not think I deserve the prize. And I also didn't violate imgt law is that correct?
Well, how would you like it if you were running a contest, and someone who did what you did usurped the results? Which punishment would you prescribe that person? Think fair and unbiased.
What's done is infact done, I'm also not leading this trial or condemning you. Just interested in what you've got to say.
I'd think a major karma change would be appropriate ,possibly a day long ban.Of course this is just off of what I did and I also think that a person in a similar situation should not be allowed to enter a contest without a mod supervising every action. Do you agree, or was that harsh?
Edit the final verdict is always up to Piotr and the victim of the crime.
Anonymous vote stuffing is cheating.
Yes and no there was no rules saying that someone could not make accounts and vote for them selfs therefore no rules were broken. Was this action really low yes but I didn't break any rules. I only used a loophole.
Did you do something that others wouldn't want to be done to them?
Quote from: Cal8301 on August 01, 2013, 12:05:57 AM
As pitor says "Logic is the ultimate law." And logic points out that any one in the contest had the abilty to do this but didn't and that's not his fault.
Did he do to others what they wouldn't want to be done to them? Your logic is so flawed that I find it disturbing to even discuss this. By your logic it is not my fault if I steal your property because everyone has the ability to steal it. Are you mad?
Quote from: Imink on August 01, 2013, 12:47:19 AM
I didn't lie I found a loophole?
Fortunately, no you didn't found any loophole in our law. You are guilty of cheating, which is something people do not want to be done to them.
Victims, call for punishment please.
Quote from: Imink on August 01, 2013, 12:55:16 AM
I do not think I deserve the prize. And I also didn't violate imgt law is that correct?
False. Both cannot be true at the same time. If you didn't violate iMtG law, you deserve the prize as the rightful winner. If you did violate the law, you don't deserve the prize as the cheater. You very clearly did something which people wouldn't want to be done to themselves, you are a cheater, hence you do not deserve the prize.
Quote from: Piotr on August 01, 2013, 05:24:44 AM
Quote from: Cal8301 on August 01, 2013, 12:05:57 AM
As pitor says "Logic is the ultimate law." And logic points out that any one in the contest had the abilty to do this but didn't and that's not his fault.
Did he do to others what they wouldn't want to be done to them? Your logic is so flawed that I find it disturbing to even discuss this. By your logic it is not my fault if I steal your property because everyone has the ability to steal it. Are you mad?
If trust is so common then why did man invent the lock you need to take a step back and look at the entire situation he didn't lie even dude core agrees to that fact. And it's not the same as there are laws and rules that govern theft in the world. There were no rules in this matter that said he couldn't do this. Right or wrong. And that's how it needs to be looked at. And if you make a contest with out proper rules people will find ways to abuse the system it's fact. So to call me mad because I point out fact not feelings in this matter was childish and uncalled for. If you like to run a community based on a moral stand point that's fine but don't be surprised when people who believe in rules and law but heads with you. I'm sure you at some point have played d&d or something like it it's the dif between good and lawful good. If you look at things from a good perspective you weight out your options when makeing a decision but if your lawful then your feelings don't matter you always do what the laws say regardless of personal feeling. And like I said karma got this individual but if he wouldn't have put his foot in his mouth he would have won by law he did nothing wrong now morally it was a dick thing to do and you need to see the difference.
Quote from: Piotr on August 01, 2013, 06:09:37 AM
Quote from: Imink on August 01, 2013, 12:55:16 AM
I do not think I deserve the prize. And I also didn't violate imgt law is that correct?
False. Both cannot be true at the same time. If you didn't violate iMtG law, you deserve the prize as the rightful winner. If you did violate the law, you don't deserve the prize as the cheater. You very clearly did something which people wouldn't want to be done to themselves, you are a cheater, hence you do not deserve the prize.
And if I would have done something like this I would have assumed someone else was doing the same thing so the do one to others rules are not broken in that matter as I'm expecting others to do the same. That's just me though there is always someone out there that is smarter than you was quote I was told to as a child so I always assume anything I can do can be done by another person. Look at it like this I don't want negative karma for things I say but people do it anyways and that hurts me but does it make them wrong. No we all have a right to express our feelings on a situation even if it hurts someone else. So unless you want to do away with your whole karma system on this site then that rule will always be broken or twisted. Why don't we kill? Because a book says its wrong or because we feel that it's wrong. Yet what is war if not killing other people but we still go to it. That's how the world works. Good and evil are two sides of the same coin and can't exist without each other. And what is good to you can be evil to someone else that's why we have laws that hand out minimum and maximum sentencing regardless of the situation. You need to take feelings out of this as they are not always the same as someone else's. so I say we ask him.
Did you expect other people to do the same thing you did? And base a decision on his response so that's my question to you imink. Now off to work so don't take any lack of response as admission to me being right or wrong.
Quote from: Birdbrain on July 20, 2013, 08:22:00 AM
Quote from: whitedrake on July 20, 2013, 08:17:10 AM
As I said... your way... But for me discouraging to vote...
i eliminated a lot of voters by saying people in the contest can't vote. Besides, if I put up a pull, some people may just vote for themselves, and then you have the votes too widely spread to pick a winner
Quote from: Imink on August 01, 2013, 02:56:26 AM
Yes and no there was no rules saying that someone could not make accounts and vote for them selfs therefore no rules were broken. Was this action really low yes but I didn't break any rules. I only used a loophole.
As you can see, I expressed concern for people voting for themselves. If I did that, than voting for themselves multipule times is out of the question. Therefore, he did break the rules of the contest
I'm letting the contestants decide if they want punishment or not however
I think there are two possible punishments, both adjustable in value, that I think would be fair.
1- Karma adjustment. We would have to decide how much negative karma he would receive.
2- Ban him from the next X contests, where X we determine here.
Quote from: Xaol on August 01, 2013, 08:59:25 AM
I think there are two possible punishments, both adjustable in value, that I think would be fair.
1- Karma adjustment. We would have to decide how much negative karma he would receive.
2- Ban him from the next X contests, where X we determine here.
Who's to say he won't just make another account and enter the contest?
Quote from: #noided on August 01, 2013, 09:11:12 AM
Quote from: Xaol on August 01, 2013, 08:59:25 AM
I think there are two possible punishments, both adjustable in value, that I think would be fair.
1- Karma adjustment. We would have to decide how much negative karma he would receive.
2- Ban him from the next X contests, where X we determine here.
Who's to say he won't just make another account and enter the contest?
Exactly. Banning isn't an option either. As I've said before, a quick Google search and five minutes later, you can have a new IP address and fly by undetected with a new account. Since he didnt get the prize and he didnt deny it when figured out, I think the best course of action is to let karma work itself out. He's already taken a few hits, and will most likely take a few more.
Quote from: Mikefrompluto on August 01, 2013, 09:24:43 AM
Quote from: #noided on August 01, 2013, 09:11:12 AM
Quote from: Xaol on August 01, 2013, 08:59:25 AM
I think there are two possible punishments, both adjustable in value, that I think would be fair.
1- Karma adjustment. We would have to decide how much negative karma he would receive.
2- Ban him from the next X contests, where X we determine here.
Who's to say he won't just make another account and enter the contest?
Exactly. Banning isn't an option either. As I've said before, a quick Google search and five minutes later, you can have a new IP address and fly by undetected with a new account. Since he didnt get the prize and he didnt deny it when figured out, I think the best course of action is to let karma work itself out. He's already taken a few hits, and will most likely take a few more.
And IP bans aren't really effective either because its simple to set up a proxy and get by that no problem
Quote from: Cal8301 on August 01, 2013, 06:30:45 AM
Quote from: Piotr on August 01, 2013, 05:24:44 AM
Quote from: Cal8301 on August 01, 2013, 12:05:57 AM
As pitor says "Logic is the ultimate law." And logic points out that any one in the contest had the abilty to do this but didn't and that's not his fault.
Did he do to others what they wouldn't want to be done to them? Your logic is so flawed that I find it disturbing to even discuss this. By your logic it is not my fault if I steal your property because everyone has the ability to steal it. Are you mad?
If trust is so common then why did man invent the lock you need to take a step back and look at the entire situation he didn't lie even dude core agrees to that fact. And it's not the same as there are laws and rules that govern theft in the world. There were no rules in this matter that said he couldn't do this. Right or wrong. And that's how it needs to be looked at. And if you make a contest with out proper rules people will find ways to abuse the system it's fact. So to call me mad because I point out fact not feelings in this matter was childish and uncalled for. If you like to run a community based on a moral stand point that's fine but don't be surprised when people who believe in rules and law but heads with you. I'm sure you at some point have played d&d or something like it it's the dif between good and lawful good. If you look at things from a good perspective you weight out your options when makeing a decision but if your lawful then your feelings don't matter you always do what the laws say regardless of personal feeling. And like I said karma got this individual but if he wouldn't have put his foot in his mouth he would have won by law he did nothing wrong now morally it was a dick thing to do and you need to see the difference.
Did he do to others what they wouldn't want to be done to them?
Quote from: Cal8301 on August 01, 2013, 06:42:39 AM
Quote from: Piotr on August 01, 2013, 06:09:37 AM
Quote from: Imink on August 01, 2013, 12:55:16 AM
I do not think I deserve the prize. And I also didn't violate imgt law is that correct?
False. Both cannot be true at the same time. If you didn't violate iMtG law, you deserve the prize as the rightful winner. If you did violate the law, you don't deserve the prize as the cheater. You very clearly did something which people wouldn't want to be done to themselves, you are a cheater, hence you do not deserve the prize.
And if I would have done something like this I would have assumed someone else was doing the same thing so the do one to others rules are not broken in that matter as I'm expecting others to do the same.
The law cares not a bit what you expect others to do, you cannot project your expectations on people. The law cares about what the others would expect from your actions. The law is addressed to you. Do you expect that people want to be cheated? If you do, you are mad and get the .love. out of here.
Karma number is a public record of karma flow. Karma is people's to give and take, it is protected by free speech natural law. On equal ground you cannot force me to remain silent, that would be doing something what I don't want to be done to me. On private ground the owner can ban you from their property.
Quote from: Cal8301 on August 01, 2013, 06:42:39 AM
Quote from: Piotr on August 01, 2013, 06:09:37 AM
Quote from: Imink on August 01, 2013, 12:55:16 AM
I do not think I deserve the prize. And I also didn't violate imgt law is that correct?
False. Both cannot be true at the same time. If you didn't violate iMtG law, you deserve the prize as the rightful winner. If you did violate the law, you don't deserve the prize as the cheater. You very clearly did something which people wouldn't want to be done to themselves, you are a cheater, hence you do not deserve the prize.
And if I would have done something like this I would have assumed someone else was doing the same thing so the do one to others rules are not broken in that matter as I'm expecting others to do the same. That's just me though there is always someone out there that is smarter than you was quote I was told to as a child so I always assume anything I can do can be done by another person. Look at it like this I don't want negative karma for things I say but people do it anyways and that hurts me but does it make them wrong. No we all have a right to express our feelings on a situation even if it hurts someone else. So unless you want to do away with your whole karma system on this site then that rule will always be broken or twisted. Why don't we kill? Because a book says its wrong or because we feel that it's wrong. Yet what is war if not killing other people but we still go to it. That's how the world works. Good and evil are two sides of the same coin and can't exist without each other. And what is good to you can be evil to someone else that's why we have laws that hand out minimum and maximum sentencing regardless of the situation. You need to take feelings out of this as they are not always the same as someone else's. so I say we ask him.
Did you expect other people to do the same thing you did? And base a decision on his response so that's my question to you imink. Now off to work so don't take any lack of response as admission to me being right or wrong.
killing is not wrong, murder is wrong. There is a huge difference in someone being killed by a murderer and a soldier killed in battle.
So what is going to happen since a verdict has not been said?
Shhhh... We're debating. What to do with you.
Hmm very interesting topic I would just like to point out half of the US presidents an most likely other countries leaders and how they got there as well :)
Quote from: Piotr on August 01, 2013, 02:30:21 PM
Shhhh... We're debating. What to do with you.
Why do I picture you fireside, sitting in your family armchair with an ancient double-barrel shotgun in lap whispering this?
My thoughts though, to get back on topic, is to let karma run its course and ban him from further contests to the best of your ability.
Quote from: Vyse on August 01, 2013, 04:02:19 PM
Quote from: Piotr on August 01, 2013, 02:30:21 PM
Shhhh... We're debating. What to do with you.
Why do I picture you fireside, sitting in your family armchair with an ancient double-barrel shotgun in lap whispering this?
My thoughts though, to get back on topic, is to let karma run its course and ban him from further contests to the best of your ability.
Lol it would def fit the views he has expressed on this topic.
But back to the prob at hand he never answered my question. Did you or did you not expect other people to do this?
Quote from: BcBudds on August 01, 2013, 02:45:44 PM
Hmm very interesting topic I would just like to point out half of the US presidents an most likely other countries leaders and how they got there as well :)
True
Quote from: IceScythe on August 01, 2013, 11:35:04 AM
Quote from: Cal8301 on August 01, 2013, 06:42:39 AM
Quote from: Piotr on August 01, 2013, 06:09:37 AM
Quote from: Imink on August 01, 2013, 12:55:16 AM
I do not think I deserve the prize. And I also didn't violate imgt law is that correct?
False. Both cannot be true at the same time. If you didn't violate iMtG law, you deserve the prize as the rightful winner. If you did violate the law, you don't deserve the prize as the cheater. You very clearly did something which people wouldn't want to be done to themselves, you are a cheater, hence you do not deserve the prize.
And if I would have done something like this I would have assumed someone else was doing the same thing so the do one to others rules are not broken in that matter as I'm expecting others to do the same. That's just me though there is always someone out there that is smarter than you was quote I was told to as a child so I always assume anything I can do can be done by another person. Look at it like this I don't want negative karma for things I say but people do it anyways and that hurts me but does it make them wrong. No we all have a right to express our feelings on a situation even if it hurts someone else. So unless you want to do away with your whole karma system on this site then that rule will always be broken or twisted. Why don't we kill? Because a book says its wrong or because we feel that it's wrong. Yet what is war if not killing other people but we still go to it. That's how the world works. Good and evil are two sides of the same coin and can't exist without each other. And what is good to you can be evil to someone else that's why we have laws that hand out minimum and maximum sentencing regardless of the situation. You need to take feelings out of this as they are not always the same as someone else's. so I say we ask him.
Did you expect other people to do the same thing you did? And base a decision on his response so that's my question to you imink. Now off to work so don't take any lack of response as admission to me being right or wrong.
killing is not wrong, murder is wrong. There is a huge difference in someone being killed by a murderer and a soldier killed in battle.
Killing and murder are hand In hand look at assanation for the betterment of the people it's still murder but people justify as the right thing to do. Think abought Osama dudes broke into his house in the middle of the night and murderd him in cold blood. Was he in the act of committing a crime or act of war at that very point in time no he wasn't so its murder. Now the sob totally deserved it and if you ask me he got off easy. But what they did was still murder. Who's right and who's wrong is dependent on which side of the line you stand on.
Quote from: Cal8301 on August 01, 2013, 04:15:21 PM
Quote from: IceScythe on August 01, 2013, 11:35:04 AM
Quote from: Cal8301 on August 01, 2013, 06:42:39 AM
Quote from: Piotr on August 01, 2013, 06:09:37 AM
Quote from: Imink on August 01, 2013, 12:55:16 AM
I do not think I deserve the prize. And I also didn't violate imgt law is that correct?
False. Both cannot be true at the same time. If you didn't violate iMtG law, you deserve the prize as the rightful winner. If you did violate the law, you don't deserve the prize as the cheater. You very clearly did something which people wouldn't want to be done to themselves, you are a cheater, hence you do not deserve the prize.
And if I would have done something like this I would have assumed someone else was doing the same thing so the do one to others rules are not broken in that matter as I'm expecting others to do the same. That's just me though there is always someone out there that is smarter than you was quote I was told to as a child so I always assume anything I can do can be done by another person. Look at it like this I don't want negative karma for things I say but people do it anyways and that hurts me but does it make them wrong. No we all have a right to express our feelings on a situation even if it hurts someone else. So unless you want to do away with your whole karma system on this site then that rule will always be broken or twisted. Why don't we kill? Because a book says its wrong or because we feel that it's wrong. Yet what is war if not killing other people but we still go to it. That's how the world works. Good and evil are two sides of the same coin and can't exist without each other. And what is good to you can be evil to someone else that's why we have laws that hand out minimum and maximum sentencing regardless of the situation. You need to take feelings out of this as they are not always the same as someone else's. so I say we ask him.
Did you expect other people to do the same thing you did? And base a decision on his response so that's my question to you imink. Now off to work so don't take any lack of response as admission to me being right or wrong.
killing is not wrong, murder is wrong. There is a huge difference in someone being killed by a murderer and a soldier killed in battle.
Killing and murder are hand In hand look at assanation for the betterment of the people it's still murder but people justify as the right thing to do. Think abought Osama dudes broke into his house in the middle of the night and murderd him in cold blood. Was he in the act of committing a crime or act of war at that very point in time no he wasn't so its murder. Now the sob totally deserved it and if you ask me he got off easy. But what they did was still murder. Who's right and who's wrong is dependent on which side of the line you stand on.
Under the law, killing and murder are not one in the same. The definition of murder is "the unlawful taking of another human life with malice a forethought." At least in NY, this definition may change slightly from state to state.
Quote from: Piotr on August 01, 2013, 09:39:57 AM
Quote from: Cal8301 on August 01, 2013, 06:42:39 AM
Quote from: Piotr on August 01, 2013, 06:09:37 AM
Quote from: Imink on August 01, 2013, 12:55:16 AM
I do not think I deserve the prize. And I also didn't violate imgt law is that correct?
False. Both cannot be true at the same time. If you didn't violate iMtG law, you deserve the prize as the rightful winner. If you did violate the law, you don't deserve the prize as the cheater. You very clearly did something which people wouldn't want to be done to themselves, you are a cheater, hence you do not deserve the prize.
And if I would have done something like this I would have assumed someone else was doing the same thing so the do one to others rules are not broken in that matter as I'm expecting others to do the same.
The law cares not a bit what you expect others to do, you cannot project your expectations on people. The law cares about what the others would expect from your actions. The law is addressed to you. Do you expect that people want to be cheated? If you do, you are mad and get the .love. out of here.
Karma number is a public record of karma flow. Karma is people's to give and take, it is protected by free speech natural law. On equal ground you cannot force me to remain silent, that would be doing something what I don't want to be done to me. On private ground the owner can ban you from their property.
I don't expect they want to be cheated but I expect they are worried that they will so it's survival of the fittest. The first one to adapt and out think there opposition are the victors. Your laws are flawed just like all laws and can not be followed to the letter at all points in time. Case in point you wife asked you if she looks fat in a dress regardless of the truth you say no which is a form of lying which is one of your little rules on here that many of us have broken. So you need to stop and look at the whole picture and ask these questions.
1. Was there a rule anywhere that said he could not do what he did?
2. If no rule existed then did he believe that other people were capable of doing or going to do what he did?
We both know the first question was a no so it all depends on the second question on weather or not he broke your imtg law. And you have to take your personal feelings out of this and base the decision on fact. Also I said everyone had a right to karma I was pointing out a hole in your logic.
Sound argument, +kar
Quote from: Birdbrain on August 01, 2013, 07:43:35 AM
Quote from: Birdbrain on July 20, 2013, 08:22:00 AM
Quote from: whitedrake on July 20, 2013, 08:17:10 AM
As I said... your way... But for me discouraging to vote...
i eliminated a lot of voters by saying people in the contest can't vote. Besides, if I put up a pull, some people may just vote for themselves, and then you have the votes too widely spread to pick a winner
Quote from: Imink on August 01, 2013, 02:56:26 AM
Yes and no there was no rules saying that someone could not make accounts and vote for them selfs therefore no rules were broken. Was this action really low yes but I didn't break any rules. I only used a loophole.
As you can see, I expressed concern for people voting for themselves. If I did that, than voting for themselves multipule times is out of the question. Therefore, he did break the rules of the contest
I'm letting the contestants decide if they want punishment or not however
Expressing concern and not making a ruling on the subject at that point and time was your mistake. And by the way this reads shows that the only reason you even talk about this is because you were afraid the votes would be to spread out not that someone would stack them. All in all I think this all could have been avoided if you guys would have taken 10 extra minutes and made rules for the contest.
One last point imtg law is not a bad thing and I give you props for making it and drawing your line in the sand. Any one who stands for what they believe in right or wrong is a person I respect. But nothing is prefect and its only through our mistakes that we learn and become stronger as a person and as a community. Rules and laws are only as good as the people who write them and no person is prefect so no law is either. And pitor I know you to be an intelligent person so you know everything I have said right or wrong holds merit. And at no point do I want you to think I'm trying to undermine the imtg laws in any way I'm just saying we should never stop improving on them.
Quote from: EvACiDe on August 01, 2013, 04:22:19 PM
Quote from: Cal8301 on August 01, 2013, 04:15:21 PM
Quote from: IceScythe on August 01, 2013, 11:35:04 AM
Quote from: Cal8301 on August 01, 2013, 06:42:39 AM
Quote from: Piotr on August 01, 2013, 06:09:37 AM
Quote from: Imink on August 01, 2013, 12:55:16 AM
I do not think I deserve the prize. And I also didn't violate imgt law is that correct?
False. Both cannot be true at the same time. If you didn't violate iMtG law, you deserve the prize as the rightful winner. If you did violate the law, you don't deserve the prize as the cheater. You very clearly did something which people wouldn't want to be done to themselves, you are a cheater, hence you do not deserve the prize.
And if I would have done something like this I would have assumed someone else was doing the same thing so the do one to others rules are not broken in that matter as I'm expecting others to do the same. That's just me though there is always someone out there that is smarter than you was quote I was told to as a child so I always assume anything I can do can be done by another person. Look at it like this I don't want negative karma for things I say but people do it anyways and that hurts me but does it make them wrong. No we all have a right to express our feelings on a situation even if it hurts someone else. So unless you want to do away with your whole karma system on this site then that rule will always be broken or twisted. Why don't we kill? Because a book says its wrong or because we feel that it's wrong. Yet what is war if not killing other people but we still go to it. That's how the world works. Good and evil are two sides of the same coin and can't exist without each other. And what is good to you can be evil to someone else that's why we have laws that hand out minimum and maximum sentencing regardless of the situation. You need to take feelings out of this as they are not always the same as someone else's. so I say we ask him.
Did you expect other people to do the same thing you did? And base a decision on his response so that's my question to you imink. Now off to work so don't take any lack of response as admission to me being right or wrong.
killing is not wrong, murder is wrong. There is a huge difference in someone being killed by a murderer and a soldier killed in battle.
Killing and murder are hand In hand look at assanation for the betterment of the people it's still murder but people justify as the right thing to do. Think abought Osama dudes broke into his house in the middle of the night and murderd him in cold blood. Was he in the act of committing a crime or act of war at that very point in time no he wasn't so its murder. Now the sob totally deserved it and if you ask me he got off easy. But what they did was still murder. Who's right and who's wrong is dependent on which side of the line you stand on.
Under the law, killing and murder are not one in the same. The definition of murder is "the unlawful taking of another human life with malice a forethought." At least in NY, this definition may change slightly from state to state.
I didn't say it was the same I said they go hand in hand which means depending on the individual you talk to it could be viewed as one or the other.
Well ink you need to answer the question.
Quote from: Cal8301 on August 01, 2013, 05:01:34 PM
Quote from: EvACiDe on August 01, 2013, 04:22:19 PM
Quote from: Cal8301 on August 01, 2013, 04:15:21 PM
Quote from: IceScythe on August 01, 2013, 11:35:04 AM
Quote from: Cal8301 on August 01, 2013, 06:42:39 AM
Quote from: Piotr on August 01, 2013, 06:09:37 AM
Quote from: Imink on August 01, 2013, 12:55:16 AM
I do not think I deserve the prize. And I also didn't violate imgt law is that correct?
False. Both cannot be true at the same time. If you didn't violate iMtG law, you deserve the prize as the rightful winner. If you did violate the law, you don't deserve the prize as the cheater. You very clearly did something which people wouldn't want to be done to themselves, you are a cheater, hence you do not deserve the prize.
And if I would have done something like this I would have assumed someone else was doing the same thing so the do one to others rules are not broken in that matter as I'm expecting others to do the same. That's just me though there is always someone out there that is smarter than you was quote I was told to as a child so I always assume anything I can do can be done by another person. Look at it like this I don't want negative karma for things I say but people do it anyways and that hurts me but does it make them wrong. No we all have a right to express our feelings on a situation even if it hurts someone else. So unless you want to do away with your whole karma system on this site then that rule will always be broken or twisted. Why don't we kill? Because a book says its wrong or because we feel that it's wrong. Yet what is war if not killing other people but we still go to it. That's how the world works. Good and evil are two sides of the same coin and can't exist without each other. And what is good to you can be evil to someone else that's why we have laws that hand out minimum and maximum sentencing regardless of the situation. You need to take feelings out of this as they are not always the same as someone else's. so I say we ask him.
Did you expect other people to do the same thing you did? And base a decision on his response so that's my question to you imink. Now off to work so don't take any lack of response as admission to me being right or wrong.
killing is not wrong, murder is wrong. There is a huge difference in someone being killed by a murderer and a soldier killed in battle.
Killing and murder are hand In hand look at assanation for the betterment of the people it's still murder but people justify as the right thing to do. Think abought Osama dudes broke into his house in the middle of the night and murderd him in cold blood. Was he in the act of committing a crime or act of war at that very point in time no he wasn't so its murder. Now the sob totally deserved it and if you ask me he got off easy. But what they did was still murder. Who's right and who's wrong is dependent on which side of the line you stand on.
Under the law, killing and murder are not one in the same. The definition of murder is "the unlawful taking of another human life with malice a forethought." At least in NY, this definition may change slightly from state to state.
I didn't say it was the same I said they go hand in hand which means depending on the individual you talk to it could be viewed as one or the other.
Oh gotcha. I misread
Yes I believe that everyone was capible of voting in the same manner that I did, if they chose to.
Quote from: Imink on August 01, 2013, 05:28:09 PM
Yes I believe that everyone was capible of voting in the same manner that I did, if they chose to.
And did you believe they would?
iMTG Law "Logic is the ultimate law."
What would be the point of having people vote if one person could just make as many accounts as they want to and vote for them self as many times as the want. Common sense dictates you can't do what you did.
Quote from: Imink on August 01, 2013, 05:28:09 PM
Yes I believe that everyone was capible of voting in the same manner that I did, if they chose to.
Are you for real?
Yes I did
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on August 01, 2013, 05:39:13 PM
iMTG Law "Logic is the ultimate law."
What would be the point of having people vote if one person could just make as many accounts as they want to and vote for them self as many times as the want. Common sense dictates you can't do what you did.
If what you say is true then why does every contest you see have a 1 entry per person clause?
Quote from: Imink on July 31, 2013, 11:20:48 PM
48 hrs isn't necessary I fully take responsibility for what I have done. My reasoning behind this was me trying to get my friend a nice gift for his birthday I do realize that the ethics behind this was wrong and incredibly low I apologize to the rightful winner.i will gladly take the punishment that will follow I assume that what I've done deserves a serious punishment negative karma could and should be part of it fell free to banish me or something of that sort but just so you know I do enjoy being part of this community and I do hope to rejoin it when you decide it's ready.
- I'm sorry
Sincerely Imink
Congratulations honest winners
You already admitted you were wrong, you can't change your tune because one person starts talking about how the rules were not clear. Everyone knows how voting works, if you don't you aren't old enough to be on the site.
Quote from: Cal8301 on August 01, 2013, 05:41:40 PM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on August 01, 2013, 05:39:13 PM
iMTG Law "Logic is the ultimate law."
What would be the point of having people vote if one person could just make as many accounts as they want to and vote for them self as many times as the want. Common sense dictates you can't do what you did.
If what you say is true then why does every contest you see have a 1 entry per person clause?
Because that is how voting works, this isn't a courtroom where some lawyer can sweet talk someone who is guilty out of a guilty verdict using technicalities. I will remind you that everyday people kill others and people are awarded millions of dollars for spilling coffee on them self with the court saying it is okay. That is the purpose of "Logic is the ultimate law", so people don't get off on technicalities.
Quote from: Cal8301 on August 01, 2013, 05:38:16 PM
Quote from: Imink on August 01, 2013, 05:28:09 PM
Yes I believe that everyone was capible of voting in the same manner that I did, if they chose to.
And did you believe they would?
His response to this was yes so in my Opinion he broke no law and should not be found guilty or have his prize taken away. Now if he wants to forfeit his prize because what he did was a dbag move and not in the spirit of the contest which would be the right thing to do then I say we drop it and call it a night. If he choses not to do that Then with this whole trial being a bought him lying you would need to either start a new trial or amend this one to project different charges.
But either way, we agree he is guilty of something?
Do you think we can vote more than once for our president? Lol
Quote from: EvACiDe on August 01, 2013, 05:53:52 PM
Do you think we can vote more than once for our president? Lol
I would have asked that but would have gone back to it having a "one entry per person clause".
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on August 01, 2013, 05:52:25 PM
But either way, we agree he is guilty of something?
He is guilty of being a dick and finding away around the rules but that's it. Now regardless of what I have proven the choice is still the community's so if the community decides not to give him the cards all he can do is cry abought it at which time a mod can nail him for trolling so either way we win.
Either way you swing it the rules were simple. Contestants cannot vote for themselves...he broke this rule multiple times in an extremely bad fashion. He knew what he did was wrong when he did it. I feel this makes him guilty more then anything. Also I hope he apologizes to birdbrain. Birdbrain didn't have to do this...he put up a good prize and created a contest on his own accord only to be swindled by a fellow community member.
Actually it says that members should vote for themselves.
Quote from: Birdbrain on August 01, 2013, 07:43:35 AM
Quote from: Birdbrain on July 20, 2013, 08:22:00 AM
Quote from: whitedrake on July 20, 2013, 08:17:10 AM
As I said... your way... But for me discouraging to vote...
i eliminated a lot of voters by saying people in the contest can't vote. Besides, if I put up a pull, some people may just vote for themselves, and then you have the votes too widely spread to pick a winner
Quote from: Imink on August 01, 2013, 02:56:26 AM
Yes and no there was no rules saying that someone could not make accounts and vote for them selfs therefore no rules were broken. Was this action really low yes but I didn't break any rules. I only used a loophole.
As you can see, I expressed concern for people voting for themselves. If I did that, than voting for themselves multipule times is out of the question. Therefore, he did break the rules of the contest
I'm letting the contestants decide if they want punishment or not however
Lying is also against iMTG Law
I also didn't lie
Whatever, we should take a vote...oh wait.
ly·ing: 1 : to make an untrue statement with intention to deceive. 2 : to create a false or misleading impression.
Making multiple accounts that were to be believed were other peoples votes was a form of misleading people.
Quote from: Cal8301 on August 01, 2013, 04:34:56 PM
Quote from: Piotr on August 01, 2013, 09:39:57 AM
Quote from: Cal8301 on August 01, 2013, 06:42:39 AM
Quote from: Piotr on August 01, 2013, 06:09:37 AM
Quote from: Imink on August 01, 2013, 12:55:16 AM
I do not think I deserve the prize. And I also didn't violate imgt law is that correct?
False. Both cannot be true at the same time. If you didn't violate iMtG law, you deserve the prize as the rightful winner. If you did violate the law, you don't deserve the prize as the cheater. You very clearly did something which people wouldn't want to be done to themselves, you are a cheater, hence you do not deserve the prize.
And if I would have done something like this I would have assumed someone else was doing the same thing so the do one to others rules are not broken in that matter as I'm expecting others to do the same.
The law cares not a bit what you expect others to do, you cannot project your expectations on people. The law cares about what the others would expect from your actions. The law is addressed to you. Do you expect that people want to be cheated? If you do, you are mad and get the .love. out of here.
Karma number is a public record of karma flow. Karma is people's to give and take, it is protected by free speech natural law. On equal ground you cannot force me to remain silent, that would be doing something what I don't want to be done to me. On private ground the owner can ban you from their property.
I don't expect they want to be cheated but I expect they are worried that they will so it's survival of the fittest. The first one to adapt and out think there opposition are the victors. Your laws are flawed just like all laws and can not be followed to the letter at all points in time. Case in point you wife asked you if she looks fat in a dress regardless of the truth you say no which is a form of lying which is one of your little rules on here that many of us have broken. So you need to stop and look at the whole picture and ask these questions.
1. Was there a rule anywhere that said he could not do what he did?
Your example is irrelevant, there is no conflict in it to be solved by the law. The law is not applicable in this case.
1. He broke the rule: do not do to others what they wouldn't want to be done to them by cheating. Did he or did he not?
I did not every one had the same exact chance to do what I did and I think if other people in the contest realized this I assumed that they would do the same and I'd be fine with it because they found a way to win.
Quote from: Cal8301 on August 01, 2013, 05:51:02 PM
Quote from: Cal8301 on August 01, 2013, 05:38:16 PM
Quote from: Imink on August 01, 2013, 05:28:09 PM
Yes I believe that everyone was capible of voting in the same manner that I did, if they chose to.
And did you believe they would?
His response to this was yes so in my Opinion he broke no law
It doesn't matter what he believed or not believed. It is irrelevant if everyone else could be cheaters too. iMtG law talks not about motives, it talks about actions and whether the actions were harmful to others. Did he DO something which other people didn't want to be done to them? He bloody did, he is guilty. Now we are deciding what to do with him as a punishment.
I agree with Piotr, guilty, but what can we do? I know this has been discussed before but, if we are going to punish him, how do we do it?
Quote from: Imink on August 01, 2013, 07:11:50 PM
I did not every one had the same exact chance to do what I did and I think if other people in the contest realized this I assumed that they would do the same and I'd be fine with it because they found a way to win.
So you believe that if I have the chance of stealing property from you, you can steal property from me?
Quote from: Imink on August 01, 2013, 07:11:50 PM
I did not every one had the same exact chance to do what I did and I think if other people in the contest realized this I assumed that they would do the same and I'd be fine with it because they found a way to win.
If everyone else had the chance to jump off a bridge, would you do it? Sorry just reminded me of the old parental comeback.
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on August 01, 2013, 07:23:37 PM
I agree with Piotr, guilty, but what can we do? I know this has been discussed before but, if we are going to punish him, how do we do it?
-50 from me.
Quote from: Piotr on August 01, 2013, 07:30:03 PM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on August 01, 2013, 07:23:37 PM
I agree with Piotr, guilty, but what can we do? I know this has been discussed before but, if we are going to punish him, how do we do it?
-50 from me.
What are you talking about? -50 karma?
Edit: Are talking about using -50 karma as a punishment?
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on August 01, 2013, 07:31:27 PM
Quote from: Piotr on August 01, 2013, 07:30:03 PM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on August 01, 2013, 07:23:37 PM
I agree with Piotr, guilty, but what can we do? I know this has been discussed before but, if we are going to punish him, how do we do it?
-50 from me.
What are you talking about? -50 karma?
Edit: Are talking about using -50 karma as a punishment?
Yes, I'm a victim of this whole mess. I lost a lot of time because of it. There is no way to recover my time or money, so I go with -50 and not guilty*. Other victims do as they please.
* the purpose of punishment is to erase guilt.
Quote from: Piotr on August 01, 2013, 07:35:01 PM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on August 01, 2013, 07:31:27 PM
Quote from: Piotr on August 01, 2013, 07:30:03 PM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on August 01, 2013, 07:23:37 PM
I agree with Piotr, guilty, but what can we do? I know this has been discussed before but, if we are going to punish him, how do we do it?
-50 from me.
What are you talking about? -50 karma?
Edit: Are talking about using -50 karma as a punishment?
Yes, I'm a victim of this whole mess. I lost a lot of time because of it. There is no way to recover my time or money, so I go with -50 and not guilty. Other victims do as they please.
I wasn't entirely sure what you meant until I looked at the -52 under Imink's name...and then started laughing.
Quote from: Piotr on August 01, 2013, 07:30:03 PM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on August 01, 2013, 07:23:37 PM
I agree with Piotr, guilty, but what can we do? I know this has been discussed before but, if we are going to punish him, how do we do it?
-50 from me.
Jeez dude, seriously? That's a little harsh. You are the end all be all in this case of course, but I think this has been severely escalated. Was it wrong? Definitely. A monetary value was involved so it definitely is worse than rigging a normal contest. Birdbrain offered up a prize when none was really necessary, at least not of that caliber, and yet he did. This is your app though so if you find the punishment necessary than go for it. Just make sure it's him your punishing and not the provokees.
-50 is a un logical verdict when I'm not guilty of a crime. I understand the frustration behind this and I will not argue. Ill slowly regain karma I'm sorry for this mess happening.
Quote from: Imink on August 01, 2013, 07:11:50 PM
I did not every one had the same exact chance to do what I did and I think if other people in the contest realized this I assumed that they would do the same and I'd be fine with it because they found a way to win.
this undermines the whole spirit of the contest. If everyone made multipule accounts and voted for themselves, it would NEVER stop. People would continue one-upping other people. Have you seen the "whoever gets the last post wins" thread? Its run freaking out of bloody control! There is no foreseeable end of it in the near future. If everyone could make multipule accounts and vote for themselves, it would all be a freaking bloodbath of people getting too competitive and hating each other because they wouldn't win. At least that is the extreme case. And about people voting for themselves. White drake said that. I dare you to find a quote from me saying that, because you won't, and I was running the contest, I made the rules. I see now they wernt clear enough, because I wanted it to be fun. Not a rule-y. I hope you learn your lesson from this and change your ways, else you might end up in jail or something. This is sad, someone turning something that's supposed to be fun, into a freaking trial. But lessons were learned, so thank you for that. However, that thank you doesnt mean everything is peachy keen, just trying to see the light in a dark situation
I love the do not do to others what they would not want done to them rule. That seems to apply here regardless of legalese.
Look if pitor says he's giving him neg karma cause he pulled a dick move he has every right but he also Acknowledge that he wasn't guilty. So I think this is a good learning exp for every one on this site allowed or not don't be a dbag because one way or another the community will find a way to get even. And when you make a contest make a list of rules for it to make sure this won't happen again.
Quote from: Cal8301 on August 01, 2013, 11:34:09 PM
Look if pitor says he's giving him neg karma cause he pulled a dick move he has every right but he also Acknowledge that he wasn't guilty. So I think this is a good learning exp for every one on this site allowed or not don't be a dbag because one way or another the community will find a way to get even. And when you make a contest make a list of rules for it to make sure this won't happen again.
You are getting very good at missing the point. The point of -50 was to erase his guilt, he was guilty as hell before this punishment was dealt. Punishment erases the guilt, so he is not guilty now, between me and him. That was my punishment, he is still guilty of crimes against others. They may chose to forgive.
If you want to discuss things, first learn about them otherwise you make yourself look stupid. Your grasp of how iMtG law works is abysmal.
Quote from: Langku on August 01, 2013, 09:45:00 PM
I love the do not do to others what they would not want done to them rule. That seems to apply here regardless of legalese.
All was legal, under iMtG law, in this very case. We had things done which others wouldn't want to be done to them, victims were found so we have a crime. Punishment was dealt, guilt erased, move on.
I think this end lesson is rather clear. DON'T CHEAT. DON'T ATTEPT TO CHEAT BY LYING. It's really rather simple.
Quote from: Piotr on August 02, 2013, 03:25:40 AM
Quote from: Cal8301 on August 01, 2013, 11:34:09 PM
Look if pitor says he's giving him neg karma cause he pulled a dick move he has every right but he also Acknowledge that he wasn't guilty. So I think this is a good learning exp for every one on this site allowed or not don't be a dbag because one way or another the community will find a way to get even. And when you make a contest make a list of rules for it to make sure this won't happen again.
You are getting very good at missing the point. The point of -50 was to erase his guilt, he was guilty as hell before this punishment was dealt. Punishment erases the guilt, so he is not guilty now, between me and him. That was my punishment, he is still guilty of crimes against others. They may chose to forgive.
If you want to discuss things, first learn about them otherwise you make yourself look stupid. Your grasp of how iMtG law works is abysmal.
Look I have held back but your constant need to pick at me is un called for. Try bringing your little imtg law into the real world where you have to fight just to put food on the table for your family. It would last all of 1 second your like my wife facts don't mean squat to you regardless of how obvious they are you want to punish someone then it should be yourself and the people who made the contest without rules. Ask any person on the street and they will tell you all he did was beat the system and you just can't stand it. I reject your ideals on this matter because there just that ideals not facts. But you run the site so your the almighty god on here and so I may not agree with your petty rules but I adhear to them. But when cold hard fact slaps you in the face and you still hide behind your little wall of rules it just shows how ignorant of a person you are. You need to take a step back and stop being a dictator. You say you run your life family and business by these rules yet given 5 min I'm sure I could point out times when you break these rules at each of them. And if you want to ban me or have one of your yes men attack me that just shows even more how much of a god complex you have. Even other people may not have liked the facts I brought up but they agreed they were a valid point and you can't stand that. I hope whatever you do in the real world you the only one who does it because if not one day someone is going to chew you up and spit you out because they don't follow your rules and there won't be anything you can do abought it.
People lie cheat and steal to get ahead its a fact of the world. I have done nothing to you to earn the way you have acted towards me. I even supported you choice of punishment towards him for the dick thing he did but you still attack me. Grow up, and ink you sir are a dbag for taking a friendly contest and turning it into a full blown moral fight. You were wrong for what you did on a moral stand point. Regardless of rules being not put in place you should have assumed you couldn't do what you did. It's because of people like you we have to tediously put stupid rules like that in place and its bs. You are what's wrong with society and why the imtg laws would never work in the real world. I gave you chance after chance to be the better man but then you pop up because I defend the point on a technicality and make your self look even more like a dick. If any of the mods would have switched this trial into a trial of your moral standings for what you did you would have lost hands down but it was a trial on lying which you did not do. But being a dbag and stacking the vote is just as bad. So I'm going to again ask polity for pitor to stop attacking me and let it go. He was wrong but not for what this thread was accusing him of and that was the point I was trying to make from day one and just because you don't like the facts dosent change them end of story.
That's quite the rant.
3 things I'd like to add before this goes even more berserk.
1: you yell at Piotr for overreacting and being rash with you, but have you read your own posts? You haven't exactly been cute and cuddly, yourself. Your reap what you sow, do you not?
2: don't call me, or the other mods "yes men." Sure, I agree with ideals put forth by imtg law (which boil down to logic and compassion the way I see them) but dragging me or any of us others into your squabble and inferring that we blindly follow and agree with Piotr is idiotic and untrue. We disagree about stuff all the time, ask him yourself.
3: I have to know, why is it so important to you to defend doing the amoral thing to get ahead just because you have the opportunity? I don't get it. You say ask anyone in the street, I urge you to do so. Ask any stranger "if you could win a contest for $40 by stuffing a ballot box while no one was looking, would you do it?" Go ahead, go to a mall, ask someone you don't know.
Quote from: Cal8301 on August 02, 2013, 06:55:33 AMTry bringing your little imtg law into the real world where you have to fight just to put food on the table for your family.
Lol no need to get all worked up just because the law works well, as intended and prevents you and the likes of you from doing to us, the honest people, what we wouldn't want to be done to us, without punishment. This trial was not about lying, 'do not lie' is just a commentary. It was about testing whether a crime was committed according to iMtG law. Maybe your petty technicalities would be enough to stop one of the silly 'real life' laws you seem to be so fond of. I wonder why you are so fond of them, perhaps because the other laws are easy for the likes of you to work around? Well sorry to break it for you, iMtG law is fool proof, it works well, it has been tested in real life situations, this trial is a real life situation.
Could this argument possibly be handled through PM? If not I feel this topic will be badly side tracked. Also...since punishment has been dealt there is no more guilt...can we lock this topic?
Side note...Piotr puts alot of effort into this app. I don't know Piotr on a personal level but just from using this app I know he puts in effort. Isn't it a perfectly logical response for him to get upset when people do or say things that adversely effect the community in which he built? Just my thoughts on the matter.
I think we need a mod only pull for contests
Let me address your points one by one
1. When it come to this thread and anything i said up until my rant towards pitor I may not have been cute and cuddly but I was respectful.
2. I did not call any mod a yes man you don't need to be a mod to be a yes man and the fact that you think I was referring to just mods or mods in piticular makes me feel that there is something wrong with this whole system and the way it's set up.
3.The problem with this statement is everything, to do it when no one was looking is a big game changer also how could anyone win if they only vote for themselves you would have to cast more than one to win so this would not be an Accurate description of the events that took place. Now if you were to just go up to people and ask them to vote on a specific thing they made or was made by another contestant and not inform them that you can or can't cast more then one vote I Guarantee at least one person will vote multiple times. Which is what happened. Also I'm not defending it I'm pointing out that its a fact of life weather we like it or not.
Quote from: Piotr on August 02, 2013, 08:14:55 AM
Quote from: Cal8301 on August 02, 2013, 06:55:33 AMTry bringing your little imtg law into the real world where you have to fight just to put food on the table for your family.
Lol no need to get all worked up just because the law works well, as intended and prevents you and the likes of you from doing to us, the honest people, what we wouldn't want to be done to us, without punishment. This trial was not about lying, 'do not lie' is just a commentary. It was about testing whether a crime was committed according to iMtG law. Maybe your petty technicalities would be enough to stop one of the silly 'real life' laws you seem to be so fond of. I wonder why you are so fond of them, perhaps because the other laws are easy for the likes of you to work around? Well sorry to break it for you, iMtG law is fool proof, it works well, it has been tested in real life situations, this trial is a real life situation.
Spoken like a true dictator all hail pitor. Nothing is fool proof unless your a fool.
Quote from: Cal8301 on August 02, 2013, 09:37:27 AMI'm not defending it I'm pointing out that its a fact of life weather we like it or not.
Yes it is a fact of life, we don't like it at all, that's why we have our cute little law which allows us to punish the f**kheads who do evil.
Quote from: Cal8301 on August 02, 2013, 09:40:59 AM
Spoken like a true dictator all hail pitor.
I am a dictator here. My will is the law here. It happens to be iMtG law.
And haveing a mod only pool is just as bad because when the source of the mods is made by one person then can it be just? Look at the imtg rules to be a mod it's Ridiculous it's like taking an oath to the all mighty pitor. You people want to follow blindly that's your choice but one day you will be wronged and will have no one to blame but yourself for allowing one person to control everything.
Quote from: Cal8301 on August 02, 2013, 09:40:59 AM
Quote from: Piotr on August 02, 2013, 08:14:55 AM
Quote from: Cal8301 on August 02, 2013, 06:55:33 AMTry bringing your little imtg law into the real world where you have to fight just to put food on the table for your family.
Lol no need to get all worked up just because the law works well, as intended and prevents you and the likes of you from doing to us, the honest people, what we wouldn't want to be done to us, without punishment. This trial was not about lying, 'do not lie' is just a commentary. It was about testing whether a crime was committed according to iMtG law. Maybe your petty technicalities would be enough to stop one of the silly 'real life' laws you seem to be so fond of. I wonder why you are so fond of them, perhaps because the other laws are easy for the likes of you to work around? Well sorry to break it for you, iMtG law is fool proof, it works well, it has been tested in real life situations, this trial is a real life situation.
Spoken like a true dictator all hail pitor. Nothing is fool proof unless your a fool.
I CAN'T TAKE IT. .loving. LEARN 3RD GRADE GRAMMAR YOU .loving. IDIOT THEN YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO ARGUE ON THE INTERNET. .love..
Quote from: #noided on August 02, 2013, 09:46:51 AM
Quote from: Cal8301 on August 02, 2013, 09:40:59 AM
Quote from: Piotr on August 02, 2013, 08:14:55 AM
Quote from: Cal8301 on August 02, 2013, 06:55:33 AMTry bringing your little imtg law into the real world where you have to fight just to put food on the table for your family.
Lol no need to get all worked up just because the law works well, as intended and prevents you and the likes of you from doing to us, the honest people, what we wouldn't want to be done to us, without punishment. This trial was not about lying, 'do not lie' is just a commentary. It was about testing whether a crime was committed according to iMtG law. Maybe your petty technicalities would be enough to stop one of the silly 'real life' laws you seem to be so fond of. I wonder why you are so fond of them, perhaps because the other laws are easy for the likes of you to work around? Well sorry to break it for you, iMtG law is fool proof, it works well, it has been tested in real life situations, this trial is a real life situation.
Spoken like a true dictator all hail pitor. Nothing is fool proof unless your a fool.
I CAN'T TAKE IT. .loving. LEARN 3RD GRADE GRAMMAR YOU .loving. IDIOT THEN YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO ARGUE ON THE INTERNET. .love..
You just said what my position as a mod was keeping* me from saying. Thank you.
*choosing not to
Quote from: Cal8301 on August 02, 2013, 09:46:31 AMLook at the imtg rules to be a mod it's Ridiculous it's like taking an oath to the all mighty pitor. You people want to follow blindly that's your choice but one day you will be wronged and will have no one to blame but yourself for allowing one person to control everything.
The mod rules: obey the iMtG law.
Being a mod requires an oath to obey the law. Pretty common act in so called 'real world'.
The law controls everything, I don't*. We are a little cute nomocracy here.
* too lazy for that.
All the rage!
Quote from: Cal8301 on August 02, 2013, 09:46:31 AMLook at the imtg rules to be a mod it's Ridiculous it's like taking an oath to the all mighty pitor. You people want to follow blindly that's your choice but one day you will be wronged and will have no one to blame but yourself for allowing one person to control everything.
You're taking this far too seriously, my man. First, even if we are blindly following Piotr, it's still just an Internet forum. It's not like he's leading through minefields during the Great Panic, where each possible step could be followed by an explosion or an attack from Zack. This is just a place for people to post words and ideas electronically. It has no precedent over anyone in their real lives. Second, if I was feeling a little less lazy (or willing to break iMtG law,) i would scour the forums for instances of a mod disagreeing with Piotr. You can go on this own thread and see it! Or you can head over to some of the Discussion threads and see examples of it. I would do it, but I don't want to entertain such tomfoolery when it would detract from the task at hand. Which was punishment for imink. Which has been carried out.
Quote from: #noided on August 02, 2013, 09:46:51 AM
I CAN'T TAKE IT. .loving. LEARN 3RD GRADE GRAMMAR YOU .loving. IDIOT THEN YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO ARGUE ON THE INTERNET. .love..
Easy there, maybe Cal is 2nd grade :P
What the hell happened here? Lol I should have actually been following this thread :P
Quote from: Silent1236 on August 02, 2013, 10:27:08 AM
What the hell happened here? Lol I should have actually been following this thread :P
Grab some popcorn and dig in.
Quote from: Xaol on August 02, 2013, 11:39:26 AM
Quote from: Silent1236 on August 02, 2013, 10:27:08 AM
What the hell happened here? Lol I should have actually been following this thread :P
Grab some popcorn and dig in.
I spilled mine can i have some of yours? :(
Quote from: That_Guy on August 02, 2013, 11:53:56 AM
Quote from: Xaol on August 02, 2013, 11:39:26 AM
Quote from: Silent1236 on August 02, 2013, 10:27:08 AM
What the hell happened here? Lol I should have actually been following this thread :P
Grab some popcorn and dig in.
I spilled mine can i have some of yours? :(
I just threw some in the microwave, give it a couple minutes. 😄
Ooooo. The starting of a revolution. I love it.
Whatever I'm done with auguring reason to people who choose to ignor it. Also as far as my grammer and spelling are concerned I have a disability called Developmental Writing Disorder so congrats on picking on the handicapped hope you all feel real good abought that. And yes there are programs for that but since I only use a phone on this fourm I don't have grammer check and spell check on a iPhone auto changes half the words you write. And btw pitor knowing or not knowing about my disorder and making the comment you made was hurtful so right there you broke your imtg law but will you offer me any kind of justice no you will just keep going cause you view yourself above your own laws.
Quote from: Cal8301 on August 02, 2013, 04:07:50 PM
Whatever I'm done with auguring reason to people who choose to ignor it. Also as far as my grammer and spelling are concerned I have a disability called Developmental Writing Disorder so congrats on picking on the handicapped hope you all feel real good abought that. And yes there are programs for that but since I only use a phone on this fourm I don't have grammer check and spell check on a iPhone auto changes half the words you write. And btw pitor knowing or not knowing about my disorder and making the comment you made was hurtful so right there you broke your imtg law but will you offer me any kind of justice no you will just keep going cause you view yourself above your own laws.
Calm down, Piotr didn't mean to offend you (he had a stick your tongue out face at the end of the post) and you are not arguing reason, Imink's case was decided and this is over, move on.
Edit: you're right, (it was a tongue-stuck-out-face) but it was still done in good fun, no need to through a hissy fit
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on August 02, 2013, 04:35:34 PM
Quote from: Cal8301 on August 02, 2013, 04:07:50 PM
Whatever I'm done with auguring reason to people who choose to ignor it. Also as far as my grammer and spelling are concerned I have a disability called Developmental Writing Disorder so congrats on picking on the handicapped hope you all feel real good abought that. And yes there are programs for that but since I only use a phone on this fourm I don't have grammer check and spell check on a iPhone auto changes half the words you write. And btw pitor knowing or not knowing about my disorder and making the comment you made was hurtful so right there you broke your imtg law but will you offer me any kind of justice no you will just keep going cause you view yourself above your own laws.
Calm down, Piotr didn't mean to offend you (he had a winky face at the end of the post) and you are not arguing reason, Imink's case was decided and this is over, move on.
Look again I don't see a winky face and even if it was it is still hurtful towards me.
Wow this got interesting
Quote from: Cal8301 on August 02, 2013, 04:07:50 PM
Whatever I'm done with auguring reason to people who choose to ignor it. Also as far as my grammer and spelling are concerned I have a disability called Developmental Writing Disorder so congrats on picking on the handicapped hope you all feel real good abought that. And yes there are programs for that but since I only use a phone on this fourm I don't have grammer check and spell check on a iPhone auto changes half the words you write. And btw pitor knowing or not knowing about my disorder and making the comment you made was hurtful so right there you broke your imtg law but will you offer me any kind of justice no you will just keep going cause you view yourself above your own laws.
Which comment?
Quote from: Piotr on August 02, 2013, 10:23:59 AM
Quote from: #noided on August 02, 2013, 09:46:51 AM
I CAN'T TAKE IT. .loving. LEARN 3RD GRADE GRAMMAR YOU .loving. IDIOT THEN YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO ARGUE ON THE INTERNET. .love..
Easy there, maybe Cal is 2nd grade :P
Quote from: Cal8301 on August 02, 2013, 10:39:12 PM
Quote from: Piotr on August 02, 2013, 10:23:59 AM
Quote from: #noided on August 02, 2013, 09:46:51 AM
I CAN'T TAKE IT. .loving. LEARN 3RD GRADE GRAMMAR YOU .loving. IDIOT THEN YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO ARGUE ON THE INTERNET. .love..
Easy there, maybe Cal is 2nd grade :P
You are offended by my comment or by comment of #noided?
peeps be easily offended up in here.
Quote from: IceScythe on August 03, 2013, 04:57:32 AM
peeps be easily offended up in here.
Perhaps, but you are truly mad if you get offended by people trying to defend you from people calling you names.
Quote from: Piotr on August 03, 2013, 05:16:47 AM
Quote from: IceScythe on August 03, 2013, 04:57:32 AM
peeps be easily offended up in here.
Perhaps, but you are truly mad if you get offended by people trying to defend you from people calling you names.
I was just implying that some other particular person was offended apparently ._.
Quote from: #noided on August 02, 2013, 09:46:51 AM
Quote from: Cal8301 on August 02, 2013, 09:40:59 AM
Quote from: Piotr on August 02, 2013, 08:14:55 AM
Quote from: Cal8301 on August 02, 2013, 06:55:33 AMTry bringing your little imtg law into the real world where you have to fight just to put food on the table for your family.
Lol no need to get all worked up just because the law works well, as intended and prevents you and the likes of you from doing to us, the honest people, what we wouldn't want to be done to us, without punishment. This trial was not about lying, 'do not lie' is just a commentary. It was about testing whether a crime was committed according to iMtG law. Maybe your petty technicalities would be enough to stop one of the silly 'real life' laws you seem to be so fond of. I wonder why you are so fond of them, perhaps because the other laws are easy for the likes of you to work around? Well sorry to break it for you, iMtG law is fool proof, it works well, it has been tested in real life situations, this trial is a real life situation.
Spoken like a true dictator all hail pitor. Nothing is fool proof unless your a fool.
I CAN'T TAKE IT. .loving. LEARN 3RD GRADE GRAMMAR YOU .loving. IDIOT THEN YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO ARGUE ON THE INTERNET. .love..
You left out a comma.
Let me go back, because I'm a little late to this.
I follow iMtg law as much as possible. I find it as something to keep me grounded against bad choices I might try to make. I actually have brought iMtg law to my house, putting everyone to its standard. It has been a rather successful mode of thought, and life has been better than it was without it.
Who said I was a yes man? If I went through life as a yes man, I would not be where I am today. I had to fight to get several opportunities. I wouldn't have been selected for scholarships, or for national level events if I didn't work. Many times in my life, I have been degraded for some undesirable attributes of mine. I have been told that I could do these national level events because of tight money. I have been basically told no.
I have pressed on despite these words. I worked hour after hour. Ignored the words of cruel people. I raised money off things like lemonade stands, advertisement, mowing lawns, babysitting, house sitting, dog sitting, all while balancing school work. I raised money, and left, buying myself a ticket, the entry, audition fee, and hotel expenses. All while paying for food.
Don't tell me that I'm a yes man. I don't take that .poo.. (Excuse my language)
Quote from: Taysby on August 03, 2013, 09:15:42 PM
Quote from: FlickerYourOwnIdentity on August 03, 2013, 08:31:46 PM
I have been told that I could do these national level events because of tight money.
I meant it was too expensive.
Did you mean couldn't? Sorry you confused me.
RAGE AGAINST EVERYONE, sorry I personally love this app but seeing this conversation it only seemed fair to {Disperse} the {Anger}.
Quote from: Mlerner12 on September 30, 2013, 10:36:26 PM
Quote from: Imink on August 02, 2013, 09:02:06 PM
Wow this got interesting
On your own trial too :P
Let's please refrain from unnecessarily bumping resolved trials. Don't want to cause any confusion.