Okay me and my friend just got into a decently sized debate on this and you can look at this many ways, so I figured I will come here because I never get lead a stray
Okay so say my friend has a
{Loxodon Smiter} and on his smiter he has two {Rancor} attached to it. Now the next turn he lays a {Silverblade Paladin} pairs it to the smiter and swings
The cards that are relivant on my board include a {Mayor of Avabruck} a {Champion of the Parish} that has two counters on it and a {Fiendslayer Paladin}
Now in response I tap one and {Brave the Elements} for green and double block his paired smiter with my fiendslayer and my champion.
My question is how much damage do I actually take and why? I believe I should only take 2 damage total but if I am wrong please inform me or if I am right please inform me
Edit: added card link, crucial for question. :)
Assuming they only attacked with the smiter, then yes.
In the first strike/double strike combat step, the smiter will deal 8 damage, being blocked by 7 toughness. The remaining 1 will go to you. Due to protection, your creatures will not received the damage, and will be fine.
Normal combat step happens, and there's still 7 toughness to block the second wave of 8 damage. This again leaves 1 damage to go to your health.
Unless I overlooked something obvious in my late night half asleep-ness, you are correct!
RESOLVED
The only thing you overlooked is a link to {Brave the Elements}
Lol
Edit: asker has since modified his message to add link to {Brave the Elements}...hehe
Keyeto's answer still stands, buddy AND you get back the 2 trample damage granted by {Rancor} anyway due the the {Fiendslayer Paladin}'s Lifelink.
That is exactly what I said and my friend insisted that the rest just trampled over and I felt like that was wrong
Quote from: Keyeto on July 29, 2013, 03:03:48 AM
Assuming they only attacked with the smiter, then yes.
In the first strike/double strike combat step, the smiter will deal 8 damage, being blocked by 7 toughness. The remaining 1 will go to you. Due to protection, your creatures will not received the damage, and will be fine.
Normal combat step happens, and there's still 7 toughness to block the second wave of 8 damage. This again leaves 1 damage to go to your health.
Unless I overlooked something obvious in my late night half asleep-ness, you are correct!
Actually, even though the creature is still alive for the normal combat step, "lethal damage" has already been assigned during the first strike phase. Shouldn't that allow all of the normal combat damage to go through?
What the above person just said was where we were hitting the wall about who was right
Lethal damage has to be assigned each step, if during first strike it is assigned and prevented you still have to assign during normal combat damage step.
That's the way I'm figuring due to the fact it's different combat steps and the creature never dies so you need to assign leath both times.
Ideally if we could get a mark on this that would be awesome
So this is resolved correct it is only 2 damage going through?
Quote from: Dragonjr on July 29, 2013, 02:06:51 PM
So this is resolved correct it is only 2 damage going through?
Yep! It's only 2 damage. I'm just reluctant about resolving my own posts. I'll slap it on there though.
Thanks a lot keyeto!
Quote from: Keyeto on July 29, 2013, 03:03:48 AM
Assuming they only attacked with the smiter, then yes.
In the first strike/double strike combat step, the smiter will deal 8 damage, being blocked by 7 toughness. The remaining 1 will go to you. Due to protection, your creatures will not received the damage, and will be fine.
Normal combat step happens, and there's still 7 toughness to block the second wave of 8 damage. This again leaves 1 damage to go to your health.
Unless I overlooked something obvious in my late night half asleep-ness, you are correct!
RESOLVED
I've looked at this over and over and I think something was missed.
I see that one damage on each combat, first strike and regular, would be assigned to the defender. Due to lifelink from the {fiendslayer paladin}, he would then gain 3 life and actually have not lost any that turn, instead have gained one, correct?
Quote from: Keyeto on July 29, 2013, 02:29:40 PM
Quote from: Dragonjr on July 29, 2013, 02:06:51 PM
So this is resolved correct it is only 2 damage going through?
Yep! It's only 2 damage. I'm just reluctant about resolving my own posts. I'll slap it on there though.
I've always been reluctant in resolving my own ones too, I've often just let another mod do it, to be safe. But in this circumstance, I reckon it manually doable after having a resounding confirmation, for sure.
Absolutely. I had my answer written but never got to post it.
Anyway, I was going to say that the prevention effect takes place after the damage is assigned to the creature, but before it resolves.
Preventing the damage changes it to a total of 0, therefore it will need another full assignment of lethal damage before trample will kick in for the normal combat step.
1 damage will trample over on both attacks for a total of 2.
The protection full assignment twice is correct since the creatures punching it really want them to die but they aren't taking damage. with that said you would have taken quite a bit more damage if you had used indestructible. Since with indestructible the creatures take the damage they just don't care about it, even though they have taken lethal damage