If I control {Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle}, 4x {Mountain} and 1x {Forest} then play {Harrow} (sacrifice the forest) to put 2 new {Mountain} into play.
Does {Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle} lets me do 3 or 0 damages? Are they going on the battlefield at the same time, are they going in the stack?
I argue with a friend yesterday, I said 0 damage, what do you think?
Thanks!!!
6, or actually 3 2 times. The mountains enter at the same time. When they both enter valakut triggers twice because there are 5 other mountains for each one when they enter (they count towards on another.
It felt like zero to me.
The mountains entered at the same time as part of the ability. The trigger will not happen as there are only 4 mountains in the battlefield.
Quote from: Paraluke on July 21, 2013, 12:11:29 PM
It felt like zero to me.
The mountains entered at the same time as part of the ability. The trigger will not happen as there are only 4 mountains in the battlefield.
You are correct. The card rulings explain this one:
Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle's triggered ability has an "intervening 'if' clause." That means (1) the ability won't trigger at all unless, at the time a Mountain enters the battlefield under your control, you control five or more Mountains other than that new one, and (2) the ability will do nothing if you control fewer than five Mountains other than that new one by the time it resolves.
Quote from: adventus on July 21, 2013, 12:32:33 PM
Quote from: Paraluke on July 21, 2013, 12:11:29 PM
It felt like zero to me.
The mountains entered at the same time as part of the ability. The trigger will not happen as there are only 4 mountains in the battlefield.
You are correct. The card rulings explain this one:
Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle's triggered ability has an "intervening 'if' clause." That means (1) the ability won't trigger at all unless, at the time a Mountain enters the battlefield under your control, you control five or more Mountains other than that new one, and (2) the ability will do nothing if you control fewer than five Mountains other than that new one by the time it resolves.
The mountains enter simultaneously, when tey enter there are 6 mountains total (meaning there are 5 other mountains relative to each of the entering mountains. Valakut will trigger twice.
Triggers cant check in the middle of an ability. Harrow has to completely resolve before and triggers are checked as part of state based action. When the triggers are checked there will be two mountains that just entered play and five other mountains in play. Thats good enough for Valakut. That deck was a pain in it's standard days because of {primeval titan} and {harrow} for this reason. It's 12 with to valakut btw.
This is also why {Scapeshift} is a fun thing with valakut
Quote from: Kaleo42 on July 21, 2013, 04:48:39 PM
Triggers cant check in the middle of an ability. Harrow has to completely resolve before and triggers are checked as part of state based action. When the triggers are checked there will be two mountains that just entered play and five other mountains in play. Thats good enough for Valakut. That deck was a pain in it's standard days because of {primeval titan} and {harrow} for this reason. It's 12 with to valakut btw.
The OP said 4 mountains and a forest, not 5 mountains.
You're missing the point, you check for triggers after resolution, at reaolution, 2 mountains had entered and there are 6 mountains total. There ARE 5 other mountains relative to each of the entering mountains and valakut will trigger twice.
Any rules on this to the conclusion? I still seem to be split on this one.
10/1/2009 If multiple Mountains enter the battlefield under your control at the same time, Valakut's second ability could trigger that many times. Each ability takes into consideration the other Mountains that entered the battlefield at the same time as the one that caused it to trigger.
Here it is, but I will say that if there are entire archetypes built around a rule that is probably a good indicator if the ruling.
Okay thanks a lot, I stand corrected again. I better not say anything these days. Lol
I wouldnt say that, but if youre unsure look it up first. Almost all rules questions can be answered by the rulings on the cards that can be found at the wizards gatherer site.
Haha actually I was quite sure until the opposites occurred which made sense.
But I'll be more careful next time ;)
Thanks all, it's making sense!