Ok, I say this is #3 because I started this "Touchy Subjects" topic as my thing, and I want to keep it that way. So the next one I post will be #4.
Oh my God, I have riden down many streets, and almost every car in front of me has a sticker that says, "My child is *Special!"
*Insert here involving honor roll, accepted into..., was a part of.. Etc...
Is it a positive effect build our children up like this? Having those t-ball games where everyone is a winner, building up their expectancies in life, etc...
Please post below you know the rules by now, have fun, I will post later, blah blah blah.
Do the 3 not yours don't count? Otherwise, it is bad. It can make other children feel REALLY depressed, and make another arrogant and expectant. That's my view in a nutshell.
Quote from: Mlerner12 on July 19, 2013, 11:54:07 PM
Do the 3 not yours don't count? Otherwise, it is bad. It can make other children feel REALLY depressed, and make another arrogant and expectant. That's my view in a nutshell.
I will post mine in the order I post them regardless of what others post.
I know I said I would stay out of this, but trust me when I say, not many children are not called special by their parents.
Quote from: Mlerner12 on July 19, 2013, 11:54:07 PM
Do the 3 not yours don't count? Otherwise, it is bad. It can make other children feel REALLY depressed, and make another arrogant and expectant. That's my view in a nutshell.
No, this is your view in a nutshell,
'AAAHHH I CANT VIEW ANYTHING, IM IN A NUTSHELL'😂😂😂
😑
Hehehehe :D
Providing a nurturing environment is essential the proper growth of anything.
Check out the film: "What the @!#? Do we Know?"
It's a documentary that takes a look at quantum physics.
In a specific chapter they go over an experiment done with water molecules as they into solids (ice).
The water fed positive reinforcement formed its molecules together in beautiful harmony of mini snowflakes(mandalas) while the molecules that formed while being fed negative "energy" ended up forming in abrasive and non unified structure.
Now why is this significant to this topic? Feeding positivity is essential to growth.
I work with a charity foundation for Down's Syndrome, and I can see the effects of constant attention and care to the founder's son with Down syndrome. He is aware of those around him even though he cannot communicate directly, his development has been warp-sped due to the extra care going into his growth (constant nanny, company with learning stimulation and positivity).
So in conclusion, I feel it is necessary to view yourself and your loved ones as special. Positive enforcement will have much better effect than negative.
You can put down Fight Club now 😆
Quote from: FlickerYourOwnIdentity on July 19, 2013, 11:49:57 PM
Is it a positive effect build our children up like this? Having those t-ball games where everyone is a winner, building up their expectancies in life, etc...
They actually say that if you do this your child could grow up to be cocky and expect to win everything, they say to tell the child they lost every now and then
I hate it. It makes the people of the world narcissistic little b i t c h e s.
I mean..shouldn't we strive to make everyone feel good and positive about themselves? The prospect of existence and everyone's impending death are gruesome enough. I don't see a problem with empowering children with positive self-esteem, which will likely be bullied out of them anyway.
Making sure your kid is happy and leading a fulfilling life is all well and good, but hen your kid starts to be a little punk bitch is when it's too much. Sure, promoting positive growth is great, bilut letting them expect it is not. If someone leads a life expecting everyone to like them, give them things, never fail anything, then they'll be a very depressed adult.
For the most part, I think positive influence is better than punishment for every little action, but that positive can ver quickly become a negative.
Ok, let me dive in with a story.
I saw a kid with his dad who was roughly 5 outside of a Harris Teeter. The kid yelled at his dad because he yelled, "He won the t-ball game and he deserved the biggest frapachino they had at Starbucks, not the grande. That he hated his dad for not buying the biggest size."
My God. I literally ran up to that dad as he was on his way inside the Harris Teeter without his child. I struck up a conversation with him, and asked why he looked so depressed. He said and I quote, "My kid just did something remeadial, now I have to go buy him his favorite thing. Money is tight so I got a size smaller, and he threw it at me. He said he hated me." he looked like he failed his son. I promptly told him that a spanking never hurt anyone's character. That his kid shouldn't expect so much, and that they should praise him so much. We exchange phone numbers, and we talk from time to time.
He has sent me a gift on $100 dollars recently for helping him that day. I sent it back, because his money was still tight, blah blah blah.
The point is all that building up with positive rienforcement, and instead of punishment you say, "use your words". It is making our kids assholes and bitches.
Sure every now and then, you tell your kid they did a good job. But you don't overdo it. If you have a child who wants to be a professional basketball player, and they suck, what do you do. You don't tell them that they are amazing forever. Because guess what, that child grows up, tries his hand at basketball as his sole carrier. And fails miserably because he always thought he was amazing so he never attempted to get better.
Sure it is exaggerated, but you get the point.
I grew up in a fairly good household, I was Christian raised and as a kid I usually got whatever I had asked for (birthdays and Christmas etc...). And to be perfectly honest, I took a lot of it for granted. My parents always got me some of the nicest things. I had a ps1 and 2 I had every gameboy. And I must admit that I got a little spoiled. Now I'm a pretty smart kid, and I always did good on tests and such in high school, but I never did homework. I would pay attention in class enough to understand the information, but I didn't feel I needed to show that I understood it by doing homework every day. So eventually I started failing a lot of classes because homework was worth 40-60% of the grade. (Which is still total bull$&@# in my opinion). After talking with several teachers, counselors and my parents, we decided dropping out was the best idea, get my GED and start over in college. So that's what I did, got my GED and sat on my ass for 2 years. I didn't work, all I would do is little chores and play video games and such. After 2 years my father literally told me if I didn't get a job and start going to school he would kick me out. That, was my wake up call. I am a spoiled kid, I did have too much given to me, but at the same time a good kick in the ass is all any child needs to get back on the right track. So I know this has gotten a little off topic, but I feel kids shouldn't be babied too much or you do end up with a problem. I was a problem, I was babied, I was spoiled, but now I'm on my feet. So I think the everybody wins thing is a very bad idea, but still easily fixed if done right.
Why does everyone feel like the way children are taught to be positive, reassured and "babied" leads to them acting exactly the same as adults? I would venture to say that they outgrow most of those behaviors the same way they outgrow aggressive behavior or bullying.
Conversely, children that are raised by macho men that think violence is a way of testing toughness, and that little boys are pussies if they can't "win" a baseball game don't always end that way either.
I don't see the evidence that a child who is positively reassured and told that they're a winner translates to an adult that has unrealistic expectations of life, cannot hold a job, and other suspicious anecdotal ideas one may have.
That's all of the potential negatives. How about a generation of compassionate, understanding, non-violent people interested in the flourishing of others? How about people with fulfilling lives that don't seek to conquer others because of the unfounded belief that it produces a society of winners?
Isn't it more unrealistic to believe that teaching children they're not special, that they cannot aspire to anything more then just being a cog in a machine that will eventually crush them? Where are we going with this whole thing?
Deterministic factors are going to creep in anyway, regardless of how you raise your kids. You're likely to raise your kids the way you were raised
In what ways does believing your special exclude competition? Life is always going to be a competition for scarce resources, most of us will never work for Apple or Microsoft, or any of those things. But we can still all make it through the day for ourselves and our families without having to win a baseball game as a child.
We can still be compassionate and understanding without having to stomp out others. Cooperation and competition aren't mutually exclusive. To say that only a perfect world could provide for a non-combative, non-cutthroat approach to how we view each other - I disagree. We're too dependent on the people in power keeping it that way. There are plenty of ways Apple and Microsoft compete that has nothing to do with how they were raised.
I think letting everyone have a shiny new participation ribbon is a good thing but if your the worst person on the team like I usually am winning something that you actually didn't earn is kinda a slap in the face. It's more like a thanks for buying the uniform. To build self esteem one must do esteemable acts
Quote from: Imink on July 21, 2013, 02:32:09 PM
I think letting everyone have a shiny new participation ribbon is a good thing but if your the worst person on the team like I usually am winning something that you actually didn't earn is kinda a slap in the face. It's more like a thanks for buying the uniform. To build self esteem one must do esteemable acts
Granted, the theory of the pussification of American children doesn't take into account the mental or emotional mind state of the individual being pushed into "winning". Nothing is causing them to adopt the notions of their success/failure. And I'm certain some would be more then willing to point out their shortcomings.
Accepting an award you've no good reason accepting does not mean you're gratified. I got a "game ball" for a game I struck out 3 times and got a seeing-eye RBI single. I did not deserve it, but also I wasn't a batter. I was a relief pitcher. Doesn't mean I go around gloating about my great accomplishment. I was in the game because I wasn't pitching that day, and we needed someone to fill in at third.
It feels better to win something by actually being good at it and knowing that you've actually won it in my opinion but if participating is your thing go for it
There's a balance of how much your praise your child, if you let them understand that they can get things thru manipulation of the situation (crying, doing well at school, winning a game, being stubborn) well stop feeding an expectant behavior. Have them understand money earlier; they want a new video game, clean and vacuum and do your own laundry before you are 10.
Make your kids work and then make them feel special, don't just make them feel special because they are your fat baby who is going on 27
My point is its basically difficult to determine what one is good at, and empty praise won't likely bring that level of life-altering satisfaction that will cause you to grow up and be a self-important crybaby. I'm nothing like I was as a child. Life experience has lead me somewhere else.
If I was anything like my child self, oh dAmn. 😳
I don't exactly understand what you're saying. Can you rephrase it please.
Quote from: Muggywuggy on July 21, 2013, 02:49:24 PM
balance
This word, right here, is what I've been waiting to hear. Thank you.
Kids need to learn in life that you win and lose, and the things you do most of the time can affect the outcome. Don't get me wrong, you need to not have them jaded by the age of 10 thinking the world is .poo., but a healthy dose of reality that sunshine and rainbows aren't always the normal will help make more well adjusted children IMO. I'm trying my hardest with my two kids to give them a since of hope and passion for the future, but realistically understand that the world isn't always a fair place.
If he wins, he wins, if he doesn't, he doesn't.
That's the way it is, whether you tell him that he lost or fabricate a lie to make him feel better about himself is your choice. I'd tell him he lost, but then try to give him some advice so that the next time around he might win, but his victory depends upon his and his opponents actions, not mine. *he= average child playing a sport or game
Quote from: FlickerYourOwnIdentity on July 21, 2013, 01:25:26 AM
Ok, let me dive in with a story.
I saw a kid with his dad who was roughly 5 outside of a Harris Teeter. The kid yelled at his dad because he yelled, "He won the t-ball game and he deserved the biggest frapachino they had at Starbucks, not the grande. That he hated his dad for not buying the biggest size."
My God. I literally ran up to that dad as he was on his way inside the Harris Teeter without his child. I struck up a conversation with him, and asked why he looked so depressed. He said and I quote, "My kid just did something remeadial, now I have to go buy him his favorite thing. Money is tight so I got a size smaller, and he threw it at me. He said he hated me." he looked like he failed his son. I promptly told him that a spanking never hurt anyone's character. That his kid shouldn't expect so much, and that they should praise him so much. We exchange phone numbers, and we talk from time to time.
He has sent me a gift on $100 dollars recently for helping him that day. I sent it back, because his money was still tight, blah blah blah.
The point is all that building up with positive rienforcement, and instead of punishment you say, "use your words". It is making our kids assholes and bitches.
Sure every now and then, you tell your kid they did a good job. But you don't overdo it. If you have a child who wants to be a professional basketball player, and they suck, what do you do. You don't tell them that they are amazing forever. Because guess what, that child grows up, tries his hand at basketball as his sole carrier. And fails miserably because he always thought he was amazing so he never attempted to get better.
Sure it is exaggerated, but you get the point.
I take it you have never taken the time to learn anything about child development. There is so much in your comment that is just completely false.
For starters, "a spanking never hurt anyone". Are you serious? Think about what a spanking is for a second. That is when you are physically punishing a child for doing something that you disapprove of. Think about how ridiculous that sounds! You are physically harming a child because they aren't doing exactly what you tell them to, when you tell them to. Why is it that we as a society believe that it is acceptable to hurt the most vulnerable people at the most vulnerable times? It's gross.
Also, there is a reason that positive discipline is on the rise and it's the discipline style recommended by specialists. Negativity doesn't do any good for anyone, especially children. Kids are using their experience in life to mold their future selves, why would we, as the role models in their lives, want to make those experiences negative ones? I promise you, positive parenting does not turn your kid into an .rearexit..
The key is to respect our children, treat them the way you'd want to be treated (even while disciplining) they are people too.
In regards to the OP. I think that it's important to teach our kids the concepts of "it's just a game. You will have another chance to win or lose. The outcome isn't as important as the fun you had while getting there. Etc."
Not everyone is a winner. I am big on the idea of respecting our children, and lying to them while saying "we are all winners" does not have a positive outcome.
Quote from: Moneekahh on July 23, 2013, 04:48:31 AM
Quote from: FlickerYourOwnIdentity on July 21, 2013, 01:25:26 AM
Ok, let me dive in with a story.
I saw a kid with his dad who was roughly 5 outside of a Harris Teeter. The kid yelled at his dad because he yelled, "He won the t-ball game and he deserved the biggest frapachino they had at Starbucks, not the grande. That he hated his dad for not buying the biggest size."
My God. I literally ran up to that dad as he was on his way inside the Harris Teeter without his child. I struck up a conversation with him, and asked why he looked so depressed. He said and I quote, "My kid just did something remeadial, now I have to go buy him his favorite thing. Money is tight so I got a size smaller, and he threw it at me. He said he hated me." he looked like he failed his son. I promptly told him that a spanking never hurt anyone's character. That his kid shouldn't expect so much, and that they should praise him so much. We exchange phone numbers, and we talk from time to time.
He has sent me a gift on $100 dollars recently for helping him that day. I sent it back, because his money was still tight, blah blah blah.
The point is all that building up with positive rienforcement, and instead of punishment you say, "use your words". It is making our kids assholes and bitches.
Sure every now and then, you tell your kid they did a good job. But you don't overdo it. If you have a child who wants to be a professional basketball player, and they suck, what do you do. You don't tell them that they are amazing forever. Because guess what, that child grows up, tries his hand at basketball as his sole carrier. And fails miserably because he always thought he was amazing so he never attempted to get better.
Sure it is exaggerated, but you get the point.
I take it you have never taken the time to learn anything about child development. There is so much in your comment that is just completely false.
For starters, "a spanking never hurt anyone". Are you serious? Think about what a spanking is for a second. That is when you are physically punishing a child for doing something that you disapprove of. Think about how ridiculous that sounds! You are physically harming a child because they aren't doing exactly what you tell them to, when you tell them to. Why is it that we as a society believe that it is acceptable to hurt the most vulnerable people at the most vulnerable times? It's gross.
Also, there is a reason that positive discipline is on the rise and it's the discipline style recommended by specialists. Negativity doesn't do any good for anyone, especially children. Kids are using their experience in life to mold their future selves, why would we, as the role models in their lives, want to make those experiences negative ones? I promise you, positive parenting does not turn your kid into an .rearexit..
The key is to respect our children, treat them the way you'd want to be treated (even while disciplining) they are people too.
when I was growing up, you mess up, you get your @$$ beat. I love both my parents dearly, and I am thankful that they spanked me. Kids today are allowed to run wild and are not punished properly. This is another example of the wussification of America.
I am second born in a family of nine. That's right...seven kids. I got spanked for being naughty when I was young, and I am glad. My parents stopped spanking as time went on, and let me tell you, the damned youngsters that weren't spanked have way worse attitudes than the oldest three. Personally I am not going to spank because I don't think I could do that to my own kid (if I ever have one). I prefer mind games...heh. But I see nothing wrong with it.
And on the original post: I do think that everyone is special. Everyone has unique personalities and talents, and if you think not everyone is special then stop being cynical! All kids should be taught that they have potential and to go after what they want. Now on bumper stickers, nothing wrong with them...haha. But personally I don't like them on my car cause I like my car to be a mean clean racing machine! ;)
Quote from: The Pyromancer on July 23, 2013, 11:43:55 AM
Quote from: Moneekahh on July 23, 2013, 04:48:31 AM
Quote from: FlickerYourOwnIdentity on July 21, 2013, 01:25:26 AM
Ok, let me dive in with a story.
I saw a kid with his dad who was roughly 5 outside of a Harris Teeter. The kid yelled at his dad because he yelled, "He won the t-ball game and he deserved the biggest frapachino they had at Starbucks, not the grande. That he hated his dad for not buying the biggest size."
My God. I literally ran up to that dad as he was on his way inside the Harris Teeter without his child. I struck up a conversation with him, and asked why he looked so depressed. He said and I quote, "My kid just did something remeadial, now I have to go buy him his favorite thing. Money is tight so I got a size smaller, and he threw it at me. He said he hated me." he looked like he failed his son. I promptly told him that a spanking never hurt anyone's character. That his kid shouldn't expect so much, and that they should praise him so much. We exchange phone numbers, and we talk from time to time.
He has sent me a gift on $100 dollars recently for helping him that day. I sent it back, because his money was still tight, blah blah blah.
The point is all that building up with positive rienforcement, and instead of punishment you say, "use your words". It is making our kids assholes and bitches.
Sure every now and then, you tell your kid they did a good job. But you don't overdo it. If you have a child who wants to be a professional basketball player, and they suck, what do you do. You don't tell them that they are amazing forever. Because guess what, that child grows up, tries his hand at basketball as his sole carrier. And fails miserably because he always thought he was amazing so he never attempted to get better.
Sure it is exaggerated, but you get the point.
I take it you have never taken the time to learn anything about child development. There is so much in your comment that is just completely false.
For starters, "a spanking never hurt anyone". Are you serious? Think about what a spanking is for a second. That is when you are physically punishing a child for doing something that you disapprove of. Think about how ridiculous that sounds! You are physically harming a child because they aren't doing exactly what you tell them to, when you tell them to. Why is it that we as a society believe that it is acceptable to hurt the most vulnerable people at the most vulnerable times? It's gross.
Also, there is a reason that positive discipline is on the rise and it's the discipline style recommended by specialists. Negativity doesn't do any good for anyone, especially children. Kids are using their experience in life to mold their future selves, why would we, as the role models in their lives, want to make those experiences negative ones? I promise you, positive parenting does not turn your kid into an .rearexit..
The key is to respect our children, treat them the way you'd want to be treated (even while disciplining) they are people too.
when I was growing up, you mess up, you get your @$$ beat. I love both my parents dearly, and I am thankful that they spanked me. Kids today are allowed to run wild and are not punished properly. This is another example of the wussification of America.
Why does discipline need to be physical? There are plenty of answers to besides physical harm. While some may be thankful that they were hit as kids, others suffer emotional scars. There are better ways to raise children. Plain and simple.
And the thought that people choosing not to hit their kids is the "wussification of America" is beyond ignorant.
Quote from: Taysby on July 23, 2013, 11:49:14 AM
Spanking only causes physical pain. It does not damage them in any way, and used appropriately its just fine. There is a time when it turns into child abuse, but used rarely, who cares?
It may seem "just fine", but spanking is a quick fix. It doesn't teach your child that what they have done is wrong. It teaches them that of they do it, they will be hit. Great message.
Quote from: Moneekahh on July 23, 2013, 12:03:30 PM
Quote from: Taysby on July 23, 2013, 11:49:14 AM
Spanking only causes physical pain. It does not damage them in any way, and used appropriately its just fine. There is a time when it turns into child abuse, but used rarely, who cares?
It may seem "just fine", but spanking is a quick fix. It doesn't teach your child that what they have done is wrong. It teaches them that of they do it, they will be hit. Great message.
Exactly! How does striking the fear of getting hit into a child help them curb their behavior? It's an easy way out because people don't want to talk to their kids and make them understand why something is wrong. They'd rather pump them full of sugar and stick them in front of a TV with lights, violence, and loud noises blasting into their tiny, developing brains all day.