Since we're getting all controversial up in this fizzy, lets talk about drugs. Pot, cocaine, heroin, magic mushrooms, PCP, opium, mescaline, methamphetamine, adderal, Vicodin, Xanax, oxytocin etc.
Now most of you have taken commitments during red ribbon week to never do them in your life. Don't worry, high school and college will break down those walls.
I recently noticed while having a conversation with my girlfriend that most anti drug positions out there state: Drug ABUSE is life abuse. We've all seen this sticker or statement somewhere. Could it mean that big government knows we will use, but recommends you don't abuse it?
I smoke marijuana daily, some may view that negatively and some may envy it. Recently had a friend go over the edge on a ketamine binge and he has completely lost his personality. So in your opinions - appropriate experimentation/use and overconsumption/abuse. Where is this line drawn in the sand pit of life?
I'm all for drug use/marijuana use if you're smart about it and can function WITHOUT it. I know too many people that have become dependent on drugs (actual drugs; marijuana is not a drug,) and that's sad to me. But hey, at the end of the day, it has no effect on my life, so do whatever you want.
I went through a period where I smoked a lot of pot and it stopped being enjoyable, so I quit. Same with drinking. Also the people I was hanging around got into serious stuff (cocaine, heroin, dropping acid on the regular) and I had to remove myself from that environment. Now, the most I'll do is take aspirin and drink beer every now and then.
I also have an addictive personality, so I had to get a handle on things before it spiraled out of control.
No victim, no crime.
I don't do drugs anymore, I used to. I just drink habitually. I'm all for it. Who cares who does what in the privacy of their own homes? It's not up to the government. The war on drugs has been an abysmal failure.
The US has 50% of the worlds prison population. Non-violent drug offenders are all too often incarcerated. Disproportionately of them are non-whites. We have every reason to believe that whites engage in drug use as often as non-white's. it's an institution of racism that discriminates for no reason.
A lot of people I'm around use Mary Jane to help with pain, and I'm fine with that, pot as a whole is fine to me. However never say it isn't a gateway drug, it ruined my father and almost ruined more than a few of my friends. I just avoid it, I like it more than alcohol but until it's legalized I'll pass.
I think that it is okay to take drugs that don't make yew hurt others, as long as you don't do it much, can function without it, and don't break other laws when your doing them. I also think you should only take them if you have a reason, like bad times, pain, etc, and not just "because I want to".
Quote from: Mlerner12 on July 19, 2013, 05:44:01 PM
I think that it is okay to take drugs that don't make yew hurt others, as long as you don't do it much, can function without it, and don't break other laws when your doing them. I also think you should only take them if you have a reason, like bad times, pain, etc, and not just "because I want to".
Why not just because I want to?
Then it could easily get out of control, and they are more likely to do something that will hurt them.
Do not break law in prevention of lawbreaking.
The long version: do not do to others what they wouldn't want to be done to them to prevent the others from doing something which you wouldn't want to be done to you.
Example: I will not ban you to prevent you from insulting me.
Having said that I will ban you when you insult me. If you do it while sober or intoxicated is irrelevant.
Quote from: Taysby on July 19, 2013, 07:17:31 PM
I think that if there is some way to regulate the use through free enterprise, I'm ok with it. For example, you have to go to a actual place where you buy the drug, and can't leave until the effects wear off. It becomes too easy for people to hurt other people when they are under the influence. Look at alcohol right now, and how many drunk driving deaths occur because of it. It would be worse with pot and other drugs that make you hallucinate.
Bottom line, if you can be supervised by someone responsible until the effects wear off, I'm ok with it. (The gov would find a way to botch it, hence free enterprise)
Tho a place of safe sale should be made, pot cannot be compared to alcohol in impairment. Some studies even suggest it may make drivers more aware of their surroundings. But driving should only be done to get it home to smoke IMO, and by the way people don't hallucinate on marijuana, they freak out and are convinced of thing happening. Just some people can't control themselfs with booze and some even say cigs give them an opiate high, it's all mental, in that chemically it doesn't do it.
I smoke pot. Not on a daily basis anymore but somewhat regularly. I've also been a pretty hardcore drinker. Drinking is legal. Smoking is not. But what I've come to learn is that alcohol adversely affects you more then pot. There's never been a time when smoking pot made me unable to function...and yes I've smoked a lot in one sitting (for those who understand, I've smoked an ounce of chronic with just 2 other people. No breaks) but I was still able to function and I knew what was going on in the world. The same cannot be said for alcohol. Some of the most idiotic things and situations I've been in involved alcohol.
That being said I don't really agree to recreational drug use when it comes to come, heroin, acid, meth, and I'm not big on most pills. Especially if kids are in the home where these drugs are used. Accidents happen.
Quote from: Taysby on July 20, 2013, 04:03:07 PM
Ok, so I was wrong about pot. I believe what I said is correct for things like heroin though.
Yes you were wrong about pot. I believe you are wrong about heroin as well. In itself it is pretty harmless drug as far as third party is concerned. The heroin user will sit in a quiet corner and have the time of his life, and be totally passive. No harm will be done to others while the user is intoxicated.
The problem with heroin starts with the fact that it is a highly addictive drug. The reason why it is addictive is that it gives you the ultimate happiness, which cannot be matched by anything at all in real life. I am told that taking heroine is the best thing ever. It makes your normal life feel rubbish, worthless and grim in comparison. That is why it is so addictive.
Heroine was invented and brought to market by Bayer, one of the big pharma companies. In itself it is pretty harmless to the health of the user. It is cheap to produce. After delegalisation the expected happened: the price shoot through the roof and the quality of the drug in terms of purity went to the dogs. Because it is highly addictive, that didn't stop its users from obtaining it and using it, obviously. They will do anything and risk everything to get their time of their life.
The problem with heroin is not the drug itself, it is the fact that it is illegal. Were it legal as it was in the beginning, the weak minded people would be able to easily afford it and sit in their corners having their artificial happiness, doing no harm to others, while gang lords would lose their huge profits. I have very little doubt that a good portion of said profits is spent on lobbying politicians to keep heroin illegal.
I believe heroine has absolutely no lasting biological effects either. Where other drugs like marijuana, cocaine and others do. Besides the physical dependency, a former heroine user can expect to not ruin their lungs, kidneys, liver or brain after becoming sober: unless of course they ruined those things throughout their addiction (poor eating, bathing, and health habits)
I've worked with heroine addicts, I've dated (briefly) a heroine addict. Believe me, you'd never know. They can be full functioning then do their thing when they need too. If not for the associated costs of doing it - it is fairly benign.
Quote from: Dudecore on July 20, 2013, 06:39:30 PM
I believe heroine has absolutely no lasting biological effects either. Where other drugs like marijuana (...) do.
Our bodies actually have our own natural cannabinoids system, pure THC is safe as far as physical health goes. I'm a bit of an expert on marijuana use and it has pretty much no lasting biological effects either, when inhaled using quality vaporizer. I would advise not to smoke it though, smoke contains a lot of naughty stuff which does affect your health in a bad way. Still, nowhere near as bad as smoking tobacco, which is legal :P
Well I know pot comes from the evil planet of Kush and it grows inside you pushing out your soul in smoke form so I'm against it! (This is sarcasm) on a real note tho everyone reacts differently to things like Alcohol, Tobacco, Pot, and other drugs. Do I smoke pot or tobacco? No. Do I drink? No. But have I? Yes I've tried them and didnt like them. But to the main point I'm getting to is that none of these should be legal because all of them have caused deaths. And in some cases created life.
Quote from: ELLERfeller on July 20, 2013, 08:11:30 PM
Well I know pot comes from the evil planet of Kush and it grows inside you pushing out your soul in smoke form so I'm against it! (This is sarcasm) on a real note tho everyone reacts differently to things like Alcohol, Tobacco, Pot, and other drugs. Do I smoke pot or tobacco? No. Do I drink? No. But have I? Yes I've tried them and didnt like them. But to the main point I'm getting to is that none of these should be legal because all of them have caused deaths. And in some cases created life.
I don't think marijuana has caused any deaths. I may be wrong, but I have not heard of any marijuana-induced deaths.
To be more specific I mean things like Driving under the influence or things of the like!
And the Pot related deaths of a cummalitive of 9 years were 279. And 187 of those were from a direct result of the drug itself.
Quote from: ELLERfeller on July 20, 2013, 08:22:10 PM
And the Pot related deaths of a cummalitive of 9 years were 279. And 187 of those were from a direct result of the drug itself.
There has NEVER been a documented case of death due primarily to pot, ever. Asphyxiation due to over smoking in a short amount of time is as close as anyone's ever gotten. I'd like to see where your numbers came from.
Smoking anything technically is bad for you- however compared to smoking cogareettes, the amount of carcinogens and suxh you out in your body is quite small when smoking weed. I use a vaporiser- it's a bit more healthy! I see nothing wrong with drugs, as I believe that it's up to the individual to dictate what they will and won't do. I would also like to see the above poster's proof of 249 marijuana-related deaths.
My source is the FDA study conducted from 1997 till 2006. The main argument base in most Pot related debates politically. And to say there have been no primary deaths from pot is sceptical at most. I mean people have died from many things that they haven't been putting into their blood stream.
Sooo, am I the only one that doesn't/hasn't smoked pot?
Quote from: Silent1236 on July 20, 2013, 10:41:32 PM
Sooo, am I the only one that doesn't/hasn't smoked pot?
It might feel that way, but many haven't.
I haven't either, though I do know that pot isn't nearly as bad for you. My psychology professor told us that the most dangerous drug on the planet, the one that causes the most deaths is...alcohol. Now some of you may think alcohol isn't a drug, it fits in all the categories of drugs. Thankfully I always keep my books from college (spend $200 on them, not selling for $15) so if anyone would like me to get the numbers it will take a day or 2 but I can easily do that for you.
And to liven everybody up, a quote from squidbillies:
"Do you know how many alcohol and tobacco related deaths there were last year? Over 435,000. Do you know how many people marijuana killed? One, one dumb ass that tried to hackysack a tarantula."
Quote from: ELLERfeller on July 20, 2013, 10:41:05 PM
My source is the FDA study conducted from 1997 till 2006. The main argument base in most Pot related debates politically. And to say there have been no primary deaths from pot is sceptical at most. I mean people have died from many things that they haven't been putting into their blood stream.
Link it, man!
http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/view.additional-resource.php?resourceID=000174
*And please read my other post so y'all do not think Im an idiot when it comes to alcohol and tobacco I clearly state all should be illegal.
From the same site:
"Marijuana is rarely the only drug involved in a drug abuse death. Thus ... the proportion of marijuana-induced cases labeled as 'One drug' (i.e., marijuana only) will be zero or nearly zero."
2003 - Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration
Primary suspect: 0 deaths. Secondary suspect: 279. This means marijuana itself contributed to 0 deaths. Those 279 deaths were cases where marijuana was found in the system IN ADDITION to other drugs.
As stated above, the harm from marijuana comes from smoking it (you are breathing fire, after all.) You can walk into a burning forest and it would be just as harmful. Vaporizing or baked goods is the safest way to go.
But doesn't that also support the fact that it's an acting gateway drug? Don't get me wiring I'm just as against the others as much as I am this drug but this thread is focused on this particular drug so I will focus on it as well.
Quote from: ELLERfeller on July 21, 2013, 12:17:25 AM
But doesn't that also support the fact that it's an acting gateway drug? Don't get me wiring I'm just as against the others as much as I am this drug but this thread is focused on this particular drug so I will focus on it as well.
Time an time again, people call pot a gateway drug, when in reality it's only the first used because of it availability an cheap price. The true gateway drug is an has always been alcohol. Cannabis has so many proven medical benefits that it shouldn't even fall in the same category as the rest. Besides creating an altered state I mind.
Yes please read I am not disputing the fact that alcohol is a drug or even a gateway drug but anything that gives an experiance of the sort is what becomes desired and pot gives that thus gets the user to seek more of these experiences.
Quote from: ELLERfeller on July 20, 2013, 11:46:49 PM
http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/view.additional-resource.php?resourceID=000174
You lied that marijuana caused 187 deaths and the link you provided to prove that false claim states that total deaths from marijuana as primary suspect of death is 0, vs. 10008 deaths from 17 other FDA approved drugs tested in the study. You signed iMtG law which states very clearly that you may not lie. The subtitle of this very board says 'do not lie'. Are you an idiot* or you just made a mistake?
Quote from: ELLERfeller on July 20, 2013, 11:46:49 PM
*And please read my other post so y'all do not think Im an idiot when it comes to alcohol and tobacco I clearly state all should be illegal.
Well I do think you are an idiot* when it comes to alcohol and tobacco if you think these all should be illegal. You said that you want to make them illegal because they cause deaths. Alcohol was illegal during Prohibition and that caused much more deaths** due to organised crime and low quality of the illegal alcohol than the effects of legal alcohol itself***. The very same is true about other drugs.
* here defined as a person unable to think logically.
** https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=prohibition+death+toll&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
*** during comparable periods of time.
Quote from: Anoobass on July 20, 2013, 11:32:14 PMDo you know how many people marijuana killed? One, one dumb ass that tried to hackysack a tarantula."
We do not know if the dumb ass wouldn't try to 'hackysack a tarantula' while sober ;)
I'm sorry if my words made it seem like I was lying but in all honesty I didn't mean to put the blame completely on pot as a primary suspect that's why I posted the part about driving while under the influence because the primary suspect would be the driver, correct? And the secondary suspect would be pot if it was in their system.
And I guess alcohol is the opium of the masses.
Quote from: ELLERfeller on July 21, 2013, 12:17:25 AM
But doesn't that also support the fact that it's an acting gateway drug? Don't get me wiring I'm just as against the others as much as I am this drug but this thread is focused on this particular drug so I will focus on it as well.
I find alcohol more of a gateway drug
I used to fear smoking due to a father who fucked his life up with hard drugs. Then one day, I just got over the fear of smoking, said to myself "either I like it or I don't"
Became much more positive, much better at acknowledging the emotions of myself and others, less frustrated with the world and financially responsible - excellent pot is not cheap. ($40-$50 for 3.5g of proper in SoCal)
I'm just at the end of my experimentation phase in life. Pot, mushrooms, dmt, peyote and ayawaska are the ones that have survived the lifelong pass, everything else (cocaine, ecstasy, mdma, RX pills, ketamine, acid, meth, GHB etc) is off my list of to dos.
I recommend most of you Not jump into dmt or ayawaska until you can handle a 7g+ dose of mushrooms. Too many have access to it, but aren't learning from it, they just wanna see weird stuff. The creator did not make this for us to casually smoke, dmt has been extracted with solvents etc, ayawaska is the ceremony that has been going on for centuries in Amazonian tribes. Your trip last several hours, and it's not a cake walk either.
I have friends that are huge pot heads and honestly the only difference I see is them being really hungry and them sleeping a lot also having tried pot and a few shrooms and acid here and there I see no major difference in personality I don't always want to smoke.but there's also a hardcore drug dealings around my school and drug dogs are called in last time they found heroin and cocaine. So I don't have a problem with "light" drugs it's heavy drugs that are the problem
It is really scary how popular heroin is right now
Quote from: ELLERfeller on July 21, 2013, 10:44:03 AM
I'm sorry if my words made it seem like I was lying but in all honesty I didn't mean to put the blame completely on pot as a primary suspect that's why I posted the part about driving while under the influence because the primary suspect would be the driver, correct? And the secondary suspect would be pot if it was in their system.
Where did you get 187 deaths from?
When it comes to drinks and drugs and smoking, use common sense. If you know one drop is all it takes to drag you to hell, stay away from the .poo.. Same kind of thing goes for drugs. And if you smoke, well whatever floats your boat. But it's a known fact that it destroys your body, so there's that.
The same site has a chart on a link at the bottom
Quote from: ELLERfeller on July 21, 2013, 11:52:18 PM
The same site has a chart on a link at the bottom
The number 187 doesn't appear on the site at all, where did you take it from, thin air?
Quote from: Piotr on July 21, 2013, 03:45:27 AM
Quote from: Anoobass on July 20, 2013, 11:32:14 PMDo you know how many people marijuana killed? One, one dumb ass that tried to hackysack a tarantula."
We do not know if the dumb ass wouldn't try to 'hackysack a tarantula' while sober ;)
Tis very true, figured I would try to lighten the mood a little though. Just a funny quote from a stupid show.
Quote from: Silent1236 on July 20, 2013, 10:41:32 PM
Sooo, am I the only one that doesn't/hasn't smoked pot?
You're not alone. Never have, never will. I just don't see the appeal.
/shrug.
I've watched drugs really screw up the lives of people I've cared about, from something as extremely dangerous as prescription drug abuse to something as supposedly harmless as pot. I don't really like what I've seen in that department, and I urge people to be careful.
https://familycouncil.org/?p=6506
**official report http://www.drugwatch.org/CEDARS/MarDeaths2002e.pdf
I'm all for recreational use. Just be aware of your limits, stay safe, and have fun. I flirt with Mary Jane quite a bit, and dabble with hallucinogens every now and then. I mainly stick to bud, shrooms, and salvia divinorum. I'm hoping to get my hands on DMT at some point on time. I've found that if you use hallucinogens correctly, they can open your perception and allow for expansion. A strong, deep trip can often bring about a peaceful state after the journey ends.
Quote from: Muggywuggy on July 21, 2013, 02:27:11 PM
Quote from: ELLERfeller on July 21, 2013, 12:17:25 AM
But doesn't that also support the fact that it's an acting gateway drug? Don't get me wiring I'm just as against the others as much as I am this drug but this thread is focused on this particular drug so I will focus on it as well.
I find alcohol more of a gateway drug
I used to fear smoking due to a father who fucked his life up with hard drugs. Then one day, I just got over the fear of smoking, said to myself "either I like it or I don't"
Became much more positive, much better at acknowledging the emotions of myself and others, less frustrated with the world and financially responsible - excellent pot is not cheap. ($40-$50 for 3.5g of proper in SoCal)
I'm just at the end of my experimentation phase in life. Pot, mushrooms, dmt, peyote and ayawaska are the ones that have survived the lifelong pass, everything else (cocaine, ecstasy, mdma, RX pills, ketamine, acid, meth, GHB etc) is off my list of to dos.
I recommend most of you Not jump into dmt or ayawaska until you can handle a 7g+ dose of mushrooms. Too many have access to it, but aren't learning from it, they just wanna see weird stuff. The creator did not make this for us to casually smoke, dmt has been extracted with solvents etc, ayawaska is the ceremony that has been going on for centuries in Amazonian tribes. Your trip last several hours, and it's not a cake walk either.
Agreed. DMT and Ayawaska are not just drugs, they're catalysts to a spiritual experience. One of my favorite ayawaska experiences I've listened to was on the Joe Rogan podcast. I'll have to find it.
Quote from: ELLERfeller on July 22, 2013, 11:13:21 AM
https://familycouncil.org/?p=6506
**official report http://www.drugwatch.org/CEDARS/MarDeaths2002e.pdf
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB1l4-q47Nc
Too much information can hurt. That would be against iMtG Law.
Hahahaha thank you for letting me see that! And warning accepted!
Don't mean to derail, but why exactly is this thread 18+?
Cuz drugs are bad for kids mkay
Quote from: #noided on July 22, 2013, 05:09:10 PM
Don't mean to derail, but why exactly is this thread 18+?
I think it's a precautionary label. .loving. .poo.. There ya go. 😜
Er..... Sort of.
Quote from: Muggywuggy on July 22, 2013, 06:43:39 PM
Cuz drugs are bad for kids mkay
Aren't drug bad for everyone? lql
Those 18 or younger should refrain from experimentation so that their brain can develop a strong conscious and independent identity that will not need mind altering substances to expand initially.
Psilocybin has been proven to be beneficial, especially with people who have been diagnosed with a terminal disease. A study within the last 5 years recently concluded that those afflicted with a terminal disease were able to come to terms with the end of life much better, in fact fully accept it, after ingesting psilocybin in a controlled study.
A father nursed his infant daughter with cannabis infused oil in order for her to cope with cancer treatments. She has survived.
The last 2 examples I just gave are a proper use of "drugs" while youth is usually found using in excess due to lack of experience.
http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/103414/drugs-are-bad (http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/103414/drugs-are-bad)