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Magic (The Gathering) => Rules => Topic started by: ryannorris16 on March 05, 2012, 07:36:32 PM

Title: Snapcaster ruling
Post by: ryannorris16 on March 05, 2012, 07:36:32 PM
If I have a {black suns zenith} in my graveyard and use {snapcaster mage} give it flashback, does it get exiled or shuffled in the library?

I think it should be shuffled because the whole card ruling has to be played out, then snapcasters exile effect kicks in.
Title: Re: Snapcaster ruling
Post by: BlackJester on March 05, 2012, 08:49:00 PM
This works. How ever the value for X will be zero. It will shuffle in to your library as it resolves.
Title: Re: Snapcaster ruling
Post by: cltrn81 on March 05, 2012, 09:31:23 PM
Quote from: BlackJester on March 05, 2012, 08:49:00 PM
This works. How ever the value for X will be zero. It will shuffle in to your library as it resolves.

I do not think the value would be zero.  The snappy would still allow you to pay extra for the X value wouldn't it.......I don't see why not.
Title: Re: Snapcaster ruling
Post by: ryannorris16 on March 05, 2012, 09:34:16 PM
I don't see how it could be zero either.
Title: Re: Snapcaster ruling
Post by: Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker on March 05, 2012, 09:37:40 PM
Ya flashback let's you pay X costs
Title: Re: Snapcaster ruling
Post by: BlackJester on March 05, 2012, 10:23:00 PM
202.3b When calculating the converted mana cost of an object with an {X} in its mana cost, X is treated as 0 while the object is not on the stack, and X is treated as the number chosen for it while the object is on the stack.

I'm not 100% on this one though... I could be mistaken. I think the difference is that Snappy says the "mana cost" instead of "converted mana cost".
Title: Re: Snapcaster ruling
Post by: cltrn81 on March 05, 2012, 10:26:44 PM
Quote from: BlackJester on March 05, 2012, 10:23:00 PM
202.3b When calculating the converted mana cost of an object with an {X} in its mana cost, X is treated as 0 while the object is not on the stack, and X is treated as the number chosen for it while the object is on the stack.

I'm not 100% on this one though... I could be mistaken. I think the difference is that Snappy says the "mana cost" instead of "converted mana cost".

I would treat it like {increasing confusion}......it has an X value as part of its flashback cost and you can still pay any amount for X.
Title: Re: Snapcaster ruling
Post by: BlackJester on March 05, 2012, 10:33:10 PM
I think in this case, you are putting {Black Sun's Zenith} on the stack from the graveyard and then declaring the value of X and determining the cost to pay.  Looking at it again, it's not saying the converted cost, but the actual cost.
I think it'll work. 
Title: Re: Snapcaster ruling
Post by: ryannorris16 on March 05, 2012, 11:59:09 PM
I figured it's like playing from your hand and then snapcasters end effect misses.
Title: Re: Snapcaster ruling
Post by: ChrisRodriguez on March 07, 2012, 11:13:38 PM
Quote from: ryannorris16 on March 05, 2012, 07:36:32 PM
If I have a {black suns zenith} in my graveyard and use {snapcaster mage} give it flashback, does it get exiled or shuffled in the library?

I think it should be shuffled because the whole card ruling has to be played out, then snapcasters exile effect kicks in.
{Black Sun Zenith} would be exiled, because flashback ruling states that any card/cards played from a GY is exiled. As for x: it can be payed for if it is flashed back by {Snapcaster Mage}, because flash back is like casting it from your hand.
Title: Re: Snapcaster ruling
Post by: BlackJester on March 07, 2012, 11:56:43 PM
No, it would be shuffled back in to the library.  Flashback sets up a replacement effect for where the card goes after it resolves.  However, the Sun Zenith cards all get shuffled back in during the resolution.  By the time the game would attempt to exile it on resolution, it's already in another zone.
Title: Re: Snapcaster ruling
Post by: ChrisRodriguez on March 08, 2012, 12:13:42 AM
Quote from: BlackJester on March 07, 2012, 11:56:43 PM
No, it would be shuffled back in to the library.  Flashback sets up a replacement effect for where the card goes after it resolves.  However, the Sun Zenith cards all get shuffled back in during the resolution.  By the time the game would attempt to exile it on resolution, it's already in another zone.
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28751607/Zenith_plus_snapcaster
Go to this site and you'll get your answer.
Title: Re: Snapcaster ruling
Post by: BlackJester on March 08, 2012, 12:40:10 AM
Quote from: ChrisRodriguez on March 08, 2012, 12:13:42 AM
Quote from: BlackJester on March 07, 2012, 11:56:43 PM
No, it would be shuffled back in to the library.  Flashback sets up a replacement effect for where the card goes after it resolves.  However, the Sun Zenith cards all get shuffled back in during the resolution.  By the time the game would attempt to exile it on resolution, it's already in another zone.
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28751607/Zenith_plus_snapcaster
Go to this site and you'll get your answer.

Excellent work!  Way to keep me on my toes!  Next time I'll be more careful and read the appropriate rules.  I'm good, but I'm not perfect...yet.  ;)
Thanks Chris, cheers!
Title: Re: Snapcaster ruling
Post by: ChrisRodriguez on March 08, 2012, 12:50:25 AM
Quote from: BlackJester on March 08, 2012, 12:40:10 AM
Quote from: ChrisRodriguez on March 08, 2012, 12:13:42 AM
Quote from: BlackJester on March 07, 2012, 11:56:43 PM
No, it would be shuffled back in to the library.  Flashback sets up a replacement effect for where the card goes after it resolves.  However, the Sun Zenith cards all get shuffled back in during the resolution.  By the time the game would attempt to exile it on resolution, it's already in another zone.
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28751607/Zenith_plus_snapcaster
Go to this site and you'll get your answer.

Excellent work!  Way to keep me on my toes!  Next time I'll be more careful and read the appropriate rules.  I'm good, but I'm not perfect...yet.  ;)
Thanks Chris, cheers!
Someone has to do it. As you said "your not perfect...yet". Maybe someday soon.😁
Title: Re: Snapcaster ruling
Post by: BlackJester on March 08, 2012, 01:38:43 PM
That aspect of Flashback seems very non-intuitive to me. "If it would leave the stack for any reason" seems stapled on.
Title: Re: Snapcaster ruling
Post by: cltrn81 on March 08, 2012, 03:25:45 PM
OMG BJ issss Human....I don't believe it.  BlackJester please fill out this capcha:
Tfh6⃣s♋
Title: Re: Snapcaster ruling
Post by: BlackJester on March 08, 2012, 03:54:41 PM
Quote from: cltrn81 on March 08, 2012, 03:25:45 PM
OMG BJ issss Human....I don't believe it.  BlackJester please fill out this capcha:
Tfh6⃣s♋
I only admitted imperfection. I said nothing of being human. And the capcha is:
Tfh6⃣s♋
😜
Title: Re: Snapcaster ruling
Post by: cltrn81 on March 08, 2012, 03:57:53 PM
Roflsohardipoo'dabitinmypantsithinktheycallitashart!!!!!