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Magic (The Gathering) => Rules => Topic started by: mtdewaddict on July 08, 2013, 08:24:52 PM

Title: Draw phase/losing
Post by: mtdewaddict on July 08, 2013, 08:24:52 PM
If a player was made to draw multiple cards during his/her draw phase (due to  {Font of Mythos},  {Howling Mine}, etc.) and did not have enough in their library, would they lose immediately?

For example, I have 8 cards in my library and have to draw 10. Do I lose at the beginning of my main phase, or is it at the beginning of the next draw step that I lose (since I have nothing left to draw)?
Title: Re: Draw phase/losing
Post by: Keyeto on July 08, 2013, 08:26:34 PM
You would lose the next time a player receives priority, which is after you draw.

104.3c (http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?action=imtg;area=rule;number=104.3c): If a player is required to draw more cards than are left in his or her library, he or she draws the remaining cards, and then loses the game the next time a player would receive priority. (This is a state-based action. See rule 704.)
Title: Re: Draw phase/losing
Post by: mtdewaddict on July 08, 2013, 08:27:43 PM
Thanks for the quick reply!
Title: Re: Draw phase/losing
Post by: Keyeto on July 08, 2013, 08:29:51 PM
Quote from: mtdewaddict on July 08, 2013, 08:27:43 PM
Thanks for the quick reply!
No problem. Glad to help out!
Title: Re: Draw phase/losing
Post by: Gorzo on July 08, 2013, 09:40:43 PM
If I may pile onto this with a related question that came up for me and I am unsure of...

If you have 0 cards in your library, and you are required to draw a card, if you have a card with dredge in your graveyard (say {Life from the Loam}, which ultimately replacement-effects the draw into a dredge, does the draw trigger still make you lose, or did dredge's replacement effect cancel it?
Title: Re: Draw phase/losing
Post by: Keyeto on July 08, 2013, 09:48:22 PM
Quote from: Gorzo on July 08, 2013, 09:40:43 PM
If I may pile onto this with a related question that came up for me and I am unsure of...

If you have 0 cards in your library, and you are required to draw a card, if you have a card with dredge in your graveyard (say {Life from the Loam}, which ultimately replacement-effects the draw into a dredge, does the draw trigger still make you lose, or did dredge's replacement effect cancel it?
Well, you wouldn't be able to Dredge, since you don't have the required cards.

702.50a (http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?action=imtg;area=rule;number=702.50a): Dredge is a static ability that functions only while the card with dredge is in a player's graveyard. "Dredge N" means "As long as you have at least N cards in your library, if you would draw a card, you may instead put N cards from the top of your library into your graveyard and return this card from your graveyard to your hand."
Title: Re: Draw phase/losing
Post by: Gorzo on July 09, 2013, 04:11:54 AM
Aha. Good to know! That's what I get for assuming it worked like mill :P

Many thanks, Key!
Title: Re: Draw phase/losing
Post by: Wally on July 09, 2013, 06:50:00 AM
However Dredge {0} would still work :)
Title: Re: Draw phase/losing
Post by: Anoobass on July 09, 2013, 03:22:05 PM
If in the same Situation you had to mill 10 and had 8 in your library with {laboratory maniac} out, would you still win the game or does milling not count because its not "drawing"?
Title: Re: Draw phase/losing
Post by: scarsabrex on July 09, 2013, 03:23:38 PM
Milling is not drawing
Title: Re: Draw phase/losing
Post by: Kaleo42 on July 09, 2013, 03:23:43 PM
Milling is not drawing
Title: Re: Draw phase/losing
Post by: Anoobass on July 09, 2013, 03:24:09 PM
So I would still lose in this situation?
Title: Re: Draw phase/losing
Post by: Kaleo42 on July 09, 2013, 03:25:13 PM
Drawing when you cant is what causes losing.
Title: Re: Draw phase/losing
Post by: Anoobass on July 09, 2013, 03:25:53 PM
Thank you
Title: Re: Draw phase/losing
Post by: Gorzo on July 09, 2013, 03:54:27 PM
Quote from: scarsabrex on July 09, 2013, 03:23:38 PM
Milling is not drawing
Quote from: Kaleo42 on July 09, 2013, 03:23:43 PM
Milling is not drawing

Jinx!

Title: Re: Draw phase/losing
Post by: Kaleo42 on July 09, 2013, 03:57:04 PM
Quote from: Gorzo on July 09, 2013, 03:54:27 PM
Quote from: scarsabrex on July 09, 2013, 03:23:38 PM
Milling is not drawing
Quote from: Kaleo42 on July 09, 2013, 03:23:43 PM
Milling is not drawing

Jinx!
Wow. I didnt even notice.