Users accused:all-mana mania
Victims:taysby and more
Summary: all mana lies about having sent his end of trades
Preliminary Evidence: tell me how to link messages, and I will post it
All mana has repeatedly lied to many users that he sent his end of a high value trade (a {misty rainforest} and 2 {temple garden} for a {dark confidant} or something like that in my case) and 1 month later, people still haven't gotten their end. (He sent first in my case, so I didn't lose anything in my case)
Many people have been complaining about him so I posted this. The last thing I want to do is get in another cyber fight.
Response from All-Mana Mania? Also, anyone else that feels victimized by the accused member may present your claims and evidence.
Quote from: Mikefrompluto on July 07, 2013, 07:56:17 PM
Response from All-Mana Mania? Also, anyone else that feels victimized by the accused member may present your claims and evidence.
I do. About three weeks ago he agreed to buy all of my repacks. Nothing has been sent. I expected the payment a while ago. I feel victimised in that this has stopped up my trading, waiting for him to send the payment. At this point I call the trade cancelled, but I don't want people to have to go through the stagnancy I've been experiencing.
I had sent him 175 basic mountain cards because he said his lgs was in need of them, and he promised me cards, and said he would send me four {Rakdos's Return} for the land I sent him and I have not received anything and he just keeps giving me a run around saying he will get me them and send them.
I feel like i was almost scammed by this user as well.
A while back he wanted to trade for upwards of 60$ worth of cards (forgot exact trade details). He insisted that i send first. I asked him to use a mod because at that point he was being suspicious. He refused in an exclamatory all caps statement about how he wanted the cards NOW and not a week later.
The absolute refusal to use a safer method of trading and his haste to make me send first makes me believe that i was about to get scammed.
Upon his refusal to use a mod, i cancelled the trade.
Taysby: wasted time that could've been spent on serious traders
Ibtrickey: out on 175 mountains
Xaol: wasted time that could've been spent on serious buyers/traders
Slenderbro: wasted time that could've been spent on serious traders
Roro: agreed to a simultaneous send trade and has not received his cards yet
Anyone else?
The Mods have determined that All-Mana Mania has one week (ending on July 14th) to come here and defend himself. If he fails to do so, we will move along to reviewing evidence.
Quote from: Mikefrompluto on July 08, 2013, 11:29:22 AM
Taysby: wasted time that could've been spent on serious traders
Ibtrickey: out on 175 mountains
Xaol: wasted time that could've been spent on serious buyers/traders
Slenderbro: wasted time that could've been spent on serious traders
Anyone else?
Roro
Over a month ago I sent all mana mania a jace (m12) sorin (zen) and a korean omniscience. He was to send 2 hallowed fountains and a godless shrine. I will post the quotes that followed
All-Mana Mania
Re: (No subject)
June 14, 2013, 06:45:00 PM
With bozo was just one trade. I screwed up that is all I can say. I'm hoping to get past that an trade many other people! I had the cards but then I sold then before he confirmed. I totally forgot that I made a trade with him and regret. I hope to get past I with everybody
All-Mana Mania
Re: (No subject)
June 15, 2013, 09:07:50 PM
I mailed today
All-Mana Mania
Re: (No subject)
June 21, 2013, 07:58:17 PM
I mailed Wednesday I was out all weekend lol. Sorry. Did you send
Re: (No subject)
June 24, 2013, 05:18:37 PM
Ok and you should see em too. My parents would not like random people driving I our house just for cards lol. So don't worry you should be getting em soon.
Who lives near him? Why would he say that about driving to his house?
I live hour away. I said I could come get them
All-Mana Mania
(No subject)
June 24, 2013, 05:42:01 PM
That's all up to you. You wanted to re establish your self as a trader. You said you mailed last sat then changed your story to Wednesday. That's not how you gain trust. If you don't have the cards you need to be honest. I have been 100. % honest with you. I will keep my word. If you haven't mailed you need to do so soon to be here by Friday. So if you don't have the cards you need to work something out with me.
I say go over there if he's a kid talk to his parents about this. Otherwise beat him up. Lol jk
All-Mana Mania
Re: (No subject)
July 04, 2013, 07:15:32 PM
I sent the shocks to you.
In just establishing his repeated story changes. When I asked him to work something out he ignored me
I've already considered it a loss. He is a compulsive liar. It's a waste of time
I was just thinking you could help everyone else too
That's why I'm doing this little.
Pardon. I didn't mean this trial is a waste of time. I meant trying to communicate with all mana mania is.
So here is the truth guys....
I have screwed up with a bunch of people. I know that. I have to face the fact I did something sinful. I stole from people and that isn't right. I will send everyone there cards they wanted and with some cards that you guys will hopefully enjoy. I should get banned. I say this because I broke the imtg law and didn't say anything about it. I'm ready to get banned and to send to the people. I already told my parents and they grounded me. I have to go up to my lgs wedsneday to get the cards I owe everyone. I just tried to trade with cards I can buy from my lgs. I just did trades I could not complete. I agree with that. I agree I messed with people's time. I'm sorry for that. So everyone I owe cards to send me there address and I will send Thursday or Friday with tracking (finally). I will give you the tracking number and you guys can rest easy.
Up to the elders now. Just do the right thing all mana mania.
Quote from: All-Mana Mania on July 08, 2013, 05:47:11 PM
So here is the truth guys....
I have screwed up with a bunch of people. I know that. I have to face the fact I did something sinful. I stole from people and that isn't right. I will send everyone there cards they wanted and with some cards that you guys will hopefully enjoy. I should get banned. I say this because I broke the imtg law and didn't say anything about it. I'm ready to get banned and to send to the people. I already told my parents and they grounded me. I have to go up to my lgs wedsneday to get the cards I owe everyone. I just tried to trade with cards I can buy from my lgs. I just did trades I could not complete. I agree with that. I agree I messed with people's time. I'm sorry for that. So everyone I owe cards to send me there address and I will send Thursday or Friday with tracking (finally). I will give you the tracking number and you guys can rest easy.
Do you need my address again?
Quote from: Tonygrabowski4 on July 08, 2013, 06:32:58 PM
Quote from: All-Mana Mania on July 08, 2013, 05:47:11 PM
So here is the truth guys....
I have screwed up with a bunch of people. I know that. I have to face the fact I did something sinful. I stole from people and that isn't right. I will send everyone there cards they wanted and with some cards that you guys will hopefully enjoy. I should get banned. I say this because I broke the imtg law and didn't say anything about it. I'm ready to get banned and to send to the people. I already told my parents and they grounded me. I have to go up to my lgs wedsneday to get the cards I owe everyone. I just tried to trade with cards I can buy from my lgs. I just did trades I could not complete. I agree with that. I agree I messed with people's time. I'm sorry for that. So everyone I owe cards to send me there address and I will send Thursday or Friday with tracking (finally). I will give you the tracking number and you guys can rest easy.
Do you need my address again?
I would like your address too please. Thanks
Can we have a vote to get him banned??? He has lied and stolen from people many times now, even if he makes right I do not want him around on here anymore.
Quote from: Wsuryanjeska on July 08, 2013, 07:34:18 PM
Can we have a vote to get him banned??? He has lied and stolen from people many times now, even if he makes right I do not want him around on here anymore.
As even I said. I should get banned. I don't want myself around here cause I might screw up again.
Quote from: All-Mana Mania on July 08, 2013, 07:53:01 PM
Quote from: Wsuryanjeska on July 08, 2013, 07:34:18 PM
Can we have a vote to get him banned??? He has lied and stolen from people many times now, even if he makes right I do not want him around on here anymore.
As even I said. I should get banned. I don't want myself around here cause I might screw up again.
Lmao. Seriously, isn't this all we need to make it happen? PLEASE, someone get this scumbag out of here!
Quote from: All-Mana Mania on July 08, 2013, 07:53:01 PM
Quote from: Wsuryanjeska on July 08, 2013, 07:34:18 PM
Can we have a vote to get him banned??? He has lied and stolen from people many times now, even if he makes right I do not want him around on here anymore.
As even I said. I should get banned. I don't want myself around here cause I might screw up again.
How old are you?
Quote from: Raiderrob on July 08, 2013, 08:14:27 PM
Quote from: All-Mana Mania on July 08, 2013, 07:53:01 PM
Quote from: Wsuryanjeska on July 08, 2013, 07:34:18 PM
Can we have a vote to get him banned??? He has lied and stolen from people many times now, even if he makes right I do not want him around on here anymore.
As even I said. I should get banned. I don't want myself around here cause I might screw up again.
How old are you?
15
Lets get everyone their cards first and foremost and make sure that is done. Then we can get this mess settled.
Hurtin'
Send the cards
Hook em up if you're actually sorry for your laziness and deception
Going through life and accepting you're getting 86'd from communities you'd want to be apart of is not smart. Don't be a douche and don't get butt hurt when you're called out. Make your wrongs right or you're setting yourself up for poor habits in the long run.
Just because you're a "kid" doesn't exempt you from responsibilities you agreed to fulfill.
Quote from: Muggywuggy on July 08, 2013, 09:39:25 PM
Hurtin'
Send the cards
Hook em up if you're actually sorry for your laziness and deception
Going through life and accepting you're getting 86'd from communities you'd want to be apart of is not smart. Don't be a douche and don't get butt hurt when you're called out. Make your wrongs right or you're setting yourself up for poor habits in the long run.
Just because you're a "kid" doesn't exempt you from responsibilities you agreed to fulfill.
I know. I am going to make them right!!
Quote from: Wsuryanjeska on July 08, 2013, 07:34:18 PM
Can we have a vote to get him banned???
No we cannot. If you want him banned, ban him.
I'm not siding with all mana mania but at least he can man up (finally) and admit what he did was wrong iv been screwed over and yes I was upset for him being 15 we were all that age making trades and doing things we knew we couldn't do I know cuz I did when I was that age.
To all mana mania plz do the right thing and get people there cards and than if you don't get baned take some time and think about this b4 you come back. .poo. man all you had to do was talk to the people and try and work things out come on even as a kid use your head and do what's right
As I say again I'm not siding with any one and Iam sorry for all your losses I do hope you all get your cards
The mods are discussing what is a suitable punishment for the situation. Whatever it may be, we can not enact it until every person gets what was promised to them. After a punishment is served, All-Mana Mania's guilt will be erased and we as a community can move along from this little incident.
To All-Mana Mania: If you do stick around and trade in the future, just don't promise to others in a trade what you don't already have in your possession. Don't make a trade offering something that you can get from your LGS because you never know. They could sell out the very next day. It's that simple.
Thanks everyone for your cooperation, and thank you All-Mana Mania for coming forth and admitting your errors.
I am not trading I the future.
Quote from: All-Mana Mania on July 08, 2013, 06:35:15 PM
Quote from: Tonygrabowski4 on July 08, 2013, 06:32:58 PM
Quote from: All-Mana Mania on July 08, 2013, 05:47:11 PM
So here is the truth guys....
I have screwed up with a bunch of people. I know that. I have to face the fact I did something sinful. I stole from people and that isn't right. I will send everyone there cards they wanted and with some cards that you guys will hopefully enjoy. I should get banned. I say this because I broke the imtg law and didn't say anything about it. I'm ready to get banned and to send to the people. I already told my parents and they grounded me. I have to go up to my lgs wedsneday to get the cards I owe everyone. I just tried to trade with cards I can buy from my lgs. I just did trades I could not complete. I agree with that. I agree I messed with people's time. I'm sorry for that. So everyone I owe cards to send me there address and I will send Thursday or Friday with tracking (finally). I will give you the tracking number and you guys can rest easy.
Do you need my address again?
I would like your address too please. Thanks
Please send this in a PM- it isn't a good idea to let out personal information on a public board.
Thanks. -Xaol
I'd advise you to keep your address in PMs and remove that post, please. Don't want any hooligans showing up at your house :P
Or funny magazines.
Quote from: Rass on July 09, 2013, 04:41:35 PM
Or funny magazines.
"What am I gunna do with 40 subscriptions to Vibe?"
HEHEHE *rape face and maniacal laughter. Thunder cracks. The antagonist clearly is going insane.*
👊💢
Didn't realize my man Archie was sinister. It hurts to hear. I want to see this come to a reasonable conclusion where the appropriate conclusion is reached.
Quote from: Mlerner12 on July 09, 2013, 09:06:14 PM
HEHEHE *rape face and maniacal laughter. Thunder cracks. The antagonist clearly is going insane.*
👊💢
Keep posts based to the trial people.. Please
I forget the exact deal it was so long ago but I traded down for an FtV Progenitus and a Syncopate, also some more stuff. He constantl said that he had sent but it was evident that he had not because he said he had said, then he said he had just then sent and so on.
Trial has appeared to stall out here, or I'm not reading it correctly (or at all, which is the case).
Quote from: Dudecore on July 14, 2013, 07:59:40 PM
Trial has appeared to stall out here, or I'm not reading it correctly (or at all, which is the case).
I believe we've decided to hold out an execution of punishment until everyone gets their cards.
Speaking of, I need all victimized users to post here when you do receive your cards. Thanks.
Quote from: Mikefrompluto on July 14, 2013, 08:02:34 PM
Quote from: Dudecore on July 14, 2013, 07:59:40 PM
Trial has appeared to stall out here, or I'm not reading it correctly (or at all, which is the case).
I believe we've decided to hold out an execution of punishment until everyone gets their cards.
Speaking of, I need all victimized users to post here when you do receive your cards. Thanks.
May want to put a date for cards to be received so mana has concrete timeline.
All Mana has told me via PM that he's left on a two week trip. Don't expect anything in those two weeks, sorry guys. I've been waiting about a month, another three weeks won't be so bad.
Quote from: Xaol on July 15, 2013, 08:21:00 AM
All Mana has told me via PM that he's left on a two week trip. Don't expect anything in those two weeks, sorry guys. I've been waiting about a month, another three weeks won't be so bad.
Told me same thing, only not the two weeks part.
I agree as well, letting stolen cards off the hook is not an option. If cards don't start showing up two weeks from tomorrow (August 1st), his parents can expect another call, possibly from a lawyer. This is ridiculous. We've given him ample time to correct himself with generously few consequences, and we are thanked by more shady disappearing with no action. I really don't like being harsh, but I am not happy with this blatant disregard for all of you.
August 1st. Everyone involved, please pm me as you receive what you were owed. If you do not get it by then, please pm me August 2nd with trade values that were taken from you.
Is this acceptable for everyone?
Acceptable. I find this fair to all of us including all mana. Thanks.
That is honestly ridiculous or me. I am on vacation for another week an a half. I'm sorry for the wait guys, but I promise I will start getting cards and sending when I get home. Please just trust me. I didn't intend to steal cards from people. It was just I was trying to do trades that my lgs had cards of. I will set a date myself and hopefully you guys all agree. It is going to be hard for me since my mom doesn't work and my dad barely gets money. I don't h e enough cards to get all cards. 2 weeks after 2 Sundays from now? That would be also pretty fair for me too since I can't send stuff on vacation. I will send a bunch of extras!!! For you guys because I'm really sorry for this kind of mess and I will clean it up soon!! :)
I think a time extension would not be necessary. You knew the cards were supposed to go out beforehand, but you went on vacation. These people have been waiting for a long time and probably don't want to give you even longer so you can go on vacation.
Quote from: All-Mana Mania on July 17, 2013, 11:05:36 AM
That is honestly ridiculous or me. I am on vacation for another week an a half. I'm sorry for the wait guys, but I promise I will start getting cards and sending when I get home. Please just trust me. I didn't intend to steal cards from people. It was just I was trying to do trades that my lgs had cards of. I will set a date myself and hopefully you guys all agree. It is going to be hard for me since my mom doesn't work and my dad barely gets money. I don't h e enough cards to get all cards. 2 weeks after 2 Sundays from now? That would be also pretty fair for me too since I can't send stuff on vacation. I will send a bunch of extras!!! For you guys because I'm really sorry for this kind of mess and I will clean it up soon!! :)
What does this mean, two weeks from two Sundays from now? In two weeks? Or a month?
2 Sundays from now. I will see that date and then add 2 weeks on it. That'll be my timer. Hopefully that works out for you guys
Quote from: All-Mana Mania on July 17, 2013, 11:24:26 AM
2 Sundays from now. I will see that date and then add 2 weeks on it. That'll be my timer. Hopefully that works out for you guys
That is unfair to everyone waiting on cards. This all went down a week ago and you just now went on vacation. You knew you were leaving town and you should've sent beforehand. This is unacceptable and whatever respect I had for you for coming clean is now gone. Get these people their cards, man.
I don't want to hear about money problems. Other people's finances are none of my business, but if you can afford to go out of town, you can afford to buy some pieces of cardboard that you promised people. Sorry if this is harsh, but this is bull.poo. and unfair to everyone waiting on their cards.
Ok, but do I have to send everyone's cards by 1st? Or just the ones I have cards from?
Quote from: All-Mana Mania on July 17, 2013, 11:38:54 AM
Ok, but do I have to send everyone's cards by 1st? Or just the ones I have cards from?
Are you braindead? Agreements must be kept. Whatever trades you agreed upon, you have to deliver.
Quote from: Taysby on July 17, 2013, 12:00:39 PM
What if I don't have his end? Do I get free cards, or do we just say no trade. I figured we'd just do no trade, but it sounds like it would be expected for him to still deliver. ???
Whatever you want, man. If youre waiting on him to send first, it's your discretion on whether you want to continue with the trade or not. Just let him know before he sends.
All mana told me by pm that he had the cards but didn't mail before vacation cause he had no stamps. I offered to mail him some and he responded with a laugh and goofy face. Now he has gone from two week vacation to a unemployed family in distress When pushed. His words and apologies remain empty. I say extend him 1 week to aug. 8.
Quote from: All-Mana Mania on July 17, 2013, 11:24:26 AM
2 Sundays from now. I will see that date and then add 2 weeks on it. That'll be my timer. Hopefully that works out for you guys
Can you just send out as soon as possible?
Quote from: Xaol on July 17, 2013, 12:48:00 PM
Quote from: All-Mana Mania on July 17, 2013, 11:24:26 AM
2 Sundays from now. I will see that date and then add 2 weeks on it. That'll be my timer. Hopefully that works out for you guys
Can you just send out as soon as possible?
Ok, that sounds good. But I'm still putting a date on it so I actually do send.
Sooner than a month. I haven't lost any cards, and getting very frustrated. I can only imagine how the people who are missing what they are owed feel.
Quote from: Taysby on July 17, 2013, 12:00:39 PM
What if I don't have his end? Do I get free cards, or do we just say no trade. I figured we'd just do no trade, but it sounds like it would be expected for him to still deliver. ???
If you didn't send your end, I wouldn't bother trading with that guy, just cancel. Trade with someone who do not lie instead.
Quote from: Gorzo on July 17, 2013, 01:38:41 PM
Sooner than a month. I haven't lost any cards, and getting very frustrated. I can only imagine how the people who are missing what they are owed feel.
Yes. A month in my case doubles the time I've already been waiting.
A month it is. Thanks for your time on this everyone.
Any progress? Anyone received their cards? Has All-Mana actually sent anything out?
I think all mana should be banned for lieing and stealing after he returns the cards he has done multiple offenses
Banning is easily worked around by criminals. It is not a recommended punishment.
Aren't ip bans a thing? That's a little more serious.
Quote from: Vyse on July 25, 2013, 03:12:42 PM
Aren't ip bans a thing? That's a little more serious.
A quick Google search and five minutes later you can have a new, unbanned IP address. We witnessed this already.
Just not as savvy in Google fu as others I suppose.. *cough* I'm lazy*cough* haha. Unsure of the answer here, Spose that's why you're the mods and I'm a user though.
Being an Internet forum, we have no power in the real world and as such, we're limited in how we can handle thievery of physical possessions. I'm going to highlight a few points that have been expressed over and over again. Not aimed at anyone in particular, just posting this here in hopes that more people will see it.
1. Don't trade what you can't afford to lose.
2. If it's too good to be true, then 99% of the time, it is.
3. We have a middleman service designed to alleviate trading concerns. Use it. If you don't want to use a middleman for a high value trade, then both parties agreeing to adding a tracking number to their packages is highly encouraged. This only costs $0.90 and can be added to a regular envelope.
4. Like in everything else, logic and judgement are your best tools against getting ripped off. If you have bad feelings about a trade, then don't do it.
5. I personally compiled a list of known sketchy addresses. If youre unsure of someone, just PM me the person's address and I'll let you know if the address is on my list or not.
Additionally, you can always PM other members on the forum about their dealings with specific members. We're a community and as such, I don't think we mind helping each other out.
Quote from: Vyse on July 25, 2013, 03:30:41 PM
Just not as savvy in Google fu as others I suppose.. *cough* I'm lazy*cough* haha. Unsure of the answer here, Spose that's why you're the mods and I'm a user though.
Would you swear to obey iMtG law in real life too?
They are all rules I integrate into my life, except for that nasty murdering habit I have ;) but yes Piotr, they are rules to live by.
Great rules to live by. I live by them and verbally slap those who don't 😉
I was raise by this law pretty much
I raise others by this law.
He has said he is going to send me a snapcaster for the trouble instead of what he originally promised since it is worth more. Hope he comes through.
I have received no cards nor any messages
And yet he continues to post like all is dandy
And offer $50 prizes to contest winners.
This dude is a joke, he needs to be punished.
Quote from: Hunteroffire9 on July 27, 2013, 08:13:35 PM
This dude is a joke, he needs to be punished.
I agree it sounds like your all getting tricked and your cards are getting stolen
My previous offer still stands. Those of you who do not recieve the cards you were promised may PM me on August 2nd for advice on legal pursuit. I would like to request that whoever it was that called his household before pm me as well, so I may ask a few questions. I also recommend not calling again at this point in time, until a legal plan of action is in place so you know exactly what needs to be said, and perhaps more importantly, what not to say.
Quote from: Gorzo on July 28, 2013, 09:48:51 PM
My previous offer still stands. Those of you who do not recieve the cards you were promised may PM me on August 2nd for advice on legal pursuit. I would like to request that whoever it was that called his household before pm me as well, so I may ask a few questions. I also recommend not calling again at this point in time, until a legal plan of action is in place so you know exactly what needs to be said, and perhaps more importantly, what not to say.
I already am on my way of getting/sending cards:
Snapcaster
2 hallowed
1 godless
These are most important. These are ones that I have received cards from.
And other things.
Quote from: All-Mana Mania on July 28, 2013, 09:59:06 PM
Quote from: Gorzo on July 28, 2013, 09:48:51 PM
My previous offer still stands. Those of you who do not recieve the cards you were promised may PM me on August 2nd for advice on legal pursuit. I would like to request that whoever it was that called his household before pm me as well, so I may ask a few questions. I also recommend not calling again at this point in time, until a legal plan of action is in place so you know exactly what needs to be said, and perhaps more importantly, what not to say.
I already am on my way of getting/sending cards:
Snapcaster
2 hallowed
1 godless
These are most important. These are ones that I have received cards from.
And other things.
And my money or cards we said would be ok substitutes.
Quote from: Xaol on July 28, 2013, 10:14:18 PM
Quote from: All-Mana Mania on July 28, 2013, 09:59:06 PM
Quote from: Gorzo on July 28, 2013, 09:48:51 PM
My previous offer still stands. Those of you who do not recieve the cards you were promised may PM me on August 2nd for advice on legal pursuit. I would like to request that whoever it was that called his household before pm me as well, so I may ask a few questions. I also recommend not calling again at this point in time, until a legal plan of action is in place so you know exactly what needs to be said, and perhaps more importantly, what not to say.
I already am on my way of getting/sending cards:
Snapcaster
2 hallowed
1 godless
These are most important. These are ones that I have received cards from.
And other things.
And my money or cards we said would be ok substitutes.
I know those still, BUT the cards I stated are trades I have gotten from people.
Quote from: Roro on July 17, 2013, 02:37:42 PM
A month it is. Thanks for your time on this everyone.
Also I thought this was the date. The 17th.
Quote from: All-Mana Mania on July 28, 2013, 10:21:12 PM
Quote from: Roro on July 17, 2013, 02:37:42 PM
A month it is. Thanks for your time on this everyone.
Also I thought this was the date. The 17th.
Nah man. You have five days. On the 2nd, Gorzo is pushing things forward, like he said. Five days is plenty of time. If youre still on vacation, then that's your problem. These folks shouldn't have to wait any longer just because you're a lazy .rearexit. who drug their feet on mailing some cards out.
Ok. I will send by then.
I don't get involved in these things and I don't trade by mail because I've been stolen from before. However, all mana, please understand that what you did is steal and commit mail fraud. These are very real crimes and through your admission of guilt along with people knowing your address and possibly phone number, you can be prosecuted and face very real prison time. Along with something that stays on your record ( federal crimes tend to stay with you even past age 18). I beg you to hold up your end of the bargains. The person who stole from me did 2 years in prison for this same thing (traded on MOTL).
Yes, I know I messed up. I will make things right from what I did. I called my lgs and thy have the cards and will make things right. I am truthfully sorry for screwing everyone up like this.
Quote from: Kagain123 on July 29, 2013, 12:18:18 AM
I don't get involved in these things and I don't trade by mail because I've been stolen from before. However, all mana, please understand that what you did is steal and commit mail fraud. These are very real crimes and through your admission of guilt along with people knowing your address and possibly phone number, you can be prosecuted and face very real prison time. Along with something that stays on your record ( federal crimes tend to stay with you even past age 18). I beg you to hold up your end of the bargains. The person who stole from me did 2 years in prison for this same thing (traded on MOTL).
Mail Fraud is a federal offense as long as it has passed state lines I believe. But since he is a minor he probably won't be seeing jail time. If this is pursued, I expect he will at the very least get probation.
Quote from: bravado883 on July 29, 2013, 04:15:58 PMThat being said, the costs and fees associated with such an action are probably prohibitive considering the value of property involved.
What would be the costs?
Aug 2nd all mana mania. You told me you already have the cards. So mail em.
An FYI concerning mail fraud:
This is another reason to save your e-mail messages. Any documented deal in which you agreed to send a certain item in exchange for another by mail, is under the jurisdiction of laws pertaining to mail fraud. If you don't believe me, read Title 18, Section 1341 of the US Code. Those found guilty of mail fraud can be fined and sent to jail for up to 5 years. Contact your local postmaster if you seriously believe you've been ripped off, and he or she will tell you what you can do.
Quote from: Kagain123 on July 29, 2013, 05:59:59 PM
An FYI concerning mail fraud:
This is another reason to save your e-mail messages. Any documented deal in which you agreed to send a certain item in exchange for another by mail, is under the jurisdiction of laws pertaining to mail fraud. If you don't believe me, read Title 18, Section 1341 of the US Code. Those found guilty of mail fraud can be fined and sent to jail for up to 5 years. Contact your local postmaster if you seriously believe you've been ripped off, and he or she will tell you what you can do.
Nice find!
Nice info. Thanks to all concerned about this. This is a unique and useful community we have here and trust and security keeps it more than just a database. Peace
Honestly, what Bravado said in his two posts is pretty much right on. Almost word for word what I was going to say on the 2nd. The only thing I really need to add is that there will be no jail time or felony charges - let's not get carried away. Not nearly enough was collectively taken to total values high enough to reach grand theft (felony) level. But that's a lot of possible civil suits, and if each one charges the defendant with court costs and fees, that can add up to an absurd amount of money.
That all being said, I'm still willing to give additional guidance on where their best place to start is.
And finally, I truly, truly hope that it doesn't come down to all of that. All-Mana, PLEASE send those cards out, and I highly recommend for your own sake to pay the .90 cents (or whatever it is) to include tracking on your envelopes. that would let you prove you sent them (to the recipient and to a lawyer if you ever have to).
That's exactly what I was going to do. And I don't want to get to that either.
Quote from: Gorzo on July 30, 2013, 03:04:41 AM
Honestly, what Bravado said in his two posts is pretty much right on. Almost word for word what I was going to say on the 2nd. The only thing I really need to add is that there will be no jail time or felony charges - let's not get carried away. Not nearly enough was collectively taken to total values high enough to reach grand theft (felony) level. But that's a lot of possible civil suits, and if each one charges the defendant with court costs and fees, that can add up to an absurd amount of money.
That all being said, I'm still willing to give additional guidance on where their best place to start is.
And finally, I truly, truly hope that it doesn't come down to all of that. All-Mana, PLEASE send those cards out, and I highly recommend for your own sake to pay the .90 cents (or whatever it is) to include tracking on your envelopes. that would let you prove you sent them (to the recipient and to a lawyer if you ever have to).
He has previously lied to me about putting tracking on his envelopes.
Quote from: Roro on July 29, 2013, 06:19:04 PM
Nice info. Thanks to all concerned about this. This is a unique and useful community we have here and trust and security keeps it more than just a database. Peace
I totally agree! I think this community we have in the collective is great! Everyone has some knowledge for something that they can add to pretty much any situation. We have a great family here.
Only $400 or more is considered GT... Gotta be careful out there Tarmys, voices, snapcasters and shocks add up quickly.
Met someone who got charged with 60 days minimum for stealing a few DVDs 😵
Quote from: Muggywuggy on July 30, 2013, 01:19:22 PM
Only $400 or more is considered GT... Gotta be careful out there Tarmys, voices, snapcasters and shocks add up quickly.
Met someone who got charged with 60 days minimum for stealing a few DVDs 😵
GT depends on the statute of the state. Here in NY it's $1,000 I believe.
Quote from: EvACiDe on July 30, 2013, 01:39:39 PM
Quote from: Muggywuggy on July 30, 2013, 01:19:22 PM
Only $400 or more is considered GT... Gotta be careful out there Tarmys, voices, snapcasters and shocks add up quickly.
Met someone who got charged with 60 days minimum for stealing a few DVDs 😵
GT depends on the statute of the state. Here in NY it's $1,000 I believe.
Correct. Most states are in the $1000 - $2000 neighborhood. And as far as I'm aware, nowhere even close to that kind of value was involved.
Ok i think this kid deserves punishment as much as anyone else, but let's sit back and be realistic.
We arent going to legally pursue a minor for stealing pieces of paper...
Just think about what was actually stolen. No matter how much starcity or tcgplayer values them at, they are still pieces of paper.
Just thought i'd throw that out there seeing all the extensive legal research some of you have put into this.
Quote from: Slenderbro on July 30, 2013, 10:47:10 PM
Ok i think this kid deserves punishment as much as anyone else, but let's sit back and be realistic.
We arent going to legally pursue a minor for stealing pieces of paper...
Just think about what was actually stolen. No matter how much starcity or tcgplayer values them at, they are still pieces of paper.
Just thought i'd throw that out there seeing all the extensive legal research some of you have put into this.
Is this really your argument? It isn't always about the value of what was lost, it's the principle of feeling cheated, the wasted time, etc. besides, going by what you said a $100 bill is just a paper, who cares what the FED values it at, it's still a piece of "paper"
Quote from: Mikefrompluto on July 27, 2013, 11:50:51 AM
And offer $50 prizes to contest winners.
50$ prizes and he can't come through on his trades? He obviously doesn't plan on sending
Quote from: EvACiDe on July 31, 2013, 12:18:38 AM
Quote from: Slenderbro on July 30, 2013, 10:47:10 PM
Ok i think this kid deserves punishment as much as anyone else, but let's sit back and be realistic.
We arent going to legally pursue a minor for stealing pieces of paper...
Just think about what was actually stolen. No matter how much starcity or tcgplayer values them at, they are still pieces of paper.
Just thought i'd throw that out there seeing all the extensive legal research some of you have put into this.
Is this really your argument? It isn't always about the value of what was lost, it's the principle of feeling cheated, the wasted time, etc. besides, going by what you said a $100 bill is just a paper, who cares what the FED values it at, it's still a piece of "paper"
Wow, that comparison is awful. $100 bill is legal tender that has been assigned a value by the government. It's worth $100, that will not change until the Feds say otherwise.
Magic cards are trading cards. They don't have a set price. They certainly get an MSRP, but it's up to the retailer/owner to decide what they seling price is. In theory, each card is worth about 20 cents (packs are $3.50/15).
Side note, legal US tender is made of "paper" perse, but a blend of cotton and linens!
Quote from: #noided on July 31, 2013, 09:52:40 AM
Quote from: EvACiDe on July 31, 2013, 12:18:38 AM
Quote from: Slenderbro on July 30, 2013, 10:47:10 PM
Ok i think this kid deserves punishment as much as anyone else, but let's sit back and be realistic.
We arent going to legally pursue a minor for stealing pieces of paper...
Just think about what was actually stolen. No matter how much starcity or tcgplayer values them at, they are still pieces of paper.
Just thought i'd throw that out there seeing all the extensive legal research some of you have put into this.
Is this really your argument? It isn't always about the value of what was lost, it's the principle of feeling cheated, the wasted time, etc. besides, going by what you said a $100 bill is just a paper, who cares what the FED values it at, it's still a piece of "paper"
Wow, that comparison is awful. $100 bill is legal tender that has been assigned a value by the government. It's worth $100, that will not change until the Feds say otherwise.
First of all it's the FED not the Feds, the FBI has nothing to do with it. And second, yes it has been assigned a value but so have the magic cards and those also don't change until wizards says otherwise. :) so that seems like an accurate comparison to me.
P.S. I know money is made out of cotton that's why paper was in quotes.
I didn't think wizards set the price of cards. I thought it was set by people buying them up more than they could get supply for
Quote from: Birdbrain on July 31, 2013, 05:42:59 PM
I didn't think wizards set the price of cards. I thought it was set by people buying them up more than they could get supply for
They don't set the price of cards but can easily affect them by hording cards or only printing a limited amount of cards.
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on July 31, 2013, 05:47:29 PM
Quote from: Birdbrain on July 31, 2013, 05:42:59 PM
I didn't think wizards set the price of cards. I thought it was set by people buying them up more than they could get supply for
They don't set the price of cards but can easily affect them by hording cards or only printing a limited amount of cards.
Bingo.
EDIT: lol someone gave me -karma for that statement, really? All I was doing was showing how it was an accurate comparison
Quote from: EvACiDe on July 31, 2013, 06:03:25 PM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on July 31, 2013, 05:47:29 PM
Quote from: Birdbrain on July 31, 2013, 05:42:59 PM
I didn't think wizards set the price of cards. I thought it was set by people buying them up more than they could get supply for
They don't set the price of cards but can easily affect them by hording cards or only printing a limited amount of cards.
Bingo.
EDIT: lol someone gave me -karma for that statement, really? All I was doing was showing how it was an accurate comparison
You didn't show anything, just your opinion. You didn't add to the discussion in valuable way. Your post was redundant. Perhaps someone Didn't like that.
Quote from: Piotr on August 01, 2013, 02:32:26 PM
Quote from: EvACiDe on July 31, 2013, 06:03:25 PM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on July 31, 2013, 05:47:29 PM
Quote from: Birdbrain on July 31, 2013, 05:42:59 PM
I didn't think wizards set the price of cards. I thought it was set by people buying them up more than they could get supply for
They don't set the price of cards but can easily affect them by hording cards or only printing a limited amount of cards.
Bingo.
EDIT: lol someone gave me -karma for that statement, really? All I was doing was showing how it was an accurate comparison
You didn't show anything, just your opinion. You didn't add to the discussion in valuable way. Your post was redundant. Perhaps someone Didn't like that.
Technically I did show it and as for it being redundant, how? I wasn't reiterating any other point I was making because it was the FIRST point I made. Thus according to the definition of redundancy, that post was not redundant. I didn't add to the discussion in a "valuable" way? Then I'd say about 50% of the posts here didn't either, including yours. I'm not trying to be a smarta**, just defending my position.
Quote from: EvACiDe on August 01, 2013, 04:13:45 PM
Quote from: Piotr on August 01, 2013, 02:32:26 PM
Quote from: EvACiDe on July 31, 2013, 06:03:25 PM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on July 31, 2013, 05:47:29 PM
Quote from: Birdbrain on July 31, 2013, 05:42:59 PM
I didn't think wizards set the price of cards. I thought it was set by people buying them up more than they could get supply for
They don't set the price of cards but can easily affect them by hording cards or only printing a limited amount of cards.
Bingo.
EDIT: lol someone gave me -karma for that statement, really? All I was doing was showing how it was an accurate comparison
You didn't show anything, just your opinion. You didn't add to the discussion in valuable way. Your post was redundant. Perhaps someone Didn't like that.
Technically I did show it and as for it being redundant, how? I wasn't reiterating any other point I was making because it was the FIRST point I made. Thus according to the definition of redundancy, that post was not redundant. I didn't add to the discussion in a "valuable" way? Then I'd say about 50% of the posts here didn't either, including yours. I'm not trying to be a smarta**, just defending my position.
Of course it was redundant. What exactly new did we learn from you 'bingo'?
You know what takes up more space than a redundant post? Five posts complaining and arguing about a redundant post, let's move on.
Quote from: Piotr on August 01, 2013, 07:31:49 PM
Quote from: EvACiDe on August 01, 2013, 04:13:45 PM
Quote from: Piotr on August 01, 2013, 02:32:26 PM
Quote from: EvACiDe on July 31, 2013, 06:03:25 PM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on July 31, 2013, 05:47:29 PM
Quote from: Birdbrain on July 31, 2013, 05:42:59 PM
I didn't think wizards set the price of cards. I thought it was set by people buying them up more than they could get supply for
They don't set the price of cards but can easily affect them by hording cards or only printing a limited amount of cards.
Bingo.
EDIT: lol someone gave me -karma for that statement, really? All I was doing was showing how it was an accurate comparison
You didn't show anything, just your opinion. You didn't add to the discussion in valuable way. Your post was redundant. Perhaps someone Didn't like that.
Technically I did show it and as for it being redundant, how? I wasn't reiterating any other point I was making because it was the FIRST point I made. Thus according to the definition of redundancy, that post was not redundant. I didn't add to the discussion in a "valuable" way? Then I'd say about 50% of the posts here didn't either, including yours. I'm not trying to be a smarta**, just defending my position.
Of course it was redundant. What exactly new did we learn from you 'bingo'?
Obviously you're not seeing the point I was making because that was not the post I was talking about. I'm not going to apologize for something that you are too narrowminded to see, but I agree with Kos, this will be the last post I'm making on this topic.
Is it the 2nd in the USA yet? Or has he sent/his time been extended again.
Quote from: That_Guy on August 02, 2013, 11:33:09 AM
Is it the 2nd in the USA yet? Or has he sent/his time been extended again.
It's today, have the cards, just need to stop by the post office today
Quote from: All-Mana Mania on August 02, 2013, 11:40:02 AM
Quote from: That_Guy on August 02, 2013, 11:33:09 AM
Is it the 2nd in the USA yet? Or has he sent/his time been extended again.
It's today, have the cards, just need to stop by the post office today
Ok cool, glad it didnt come to any punishments :)
Quote from: Taysby on August 02, 2013, 11:53:59 AM
Actually it kinda did. H got a ton of neg karma.
True, but i mean like a ban or something. :)
See, here's the thing. If they do come to banning me, I'm not going to wine and try get back on without people noticing me. A punishment is a punishment and I have to face it.
Also I don't even worry about karma anymore. As many wise people said, karma is just a number
I'm just glad that All-Mana Mania is recognizing what he did wrong, working to make things right and not arguing about punishment; it's really mature of you.
Quote from: EvACiDe on July 31, 2013, 10:58:55 AM
Quote from: #noided on July 31, 2013, 09:52:40 AM
Quote from: EvACiDe on July 31, 2013, 12:18:38 AM
Quote from: Slenderbro on July 30, 2013, 10:47:10 PM
Ok i think this kid deserves punishment as much as anyone else, but let's sit back and be realistic.
We arent going to legally pursue a minor for stealing pieces of paper...
Just think about what was actually stolen. No matter how much starcity or tcgplayer values them at, they are still pieces of paper.
Just thought i'd throw that out there seeing all the extensive legal research some of you have put into this.
Is this really your argument? It isn't always about the value of what was lost, it's the principle of feeling cheated, the wasted time, etc. besides, going by what you said a $100 bill is just a paper, who cares what the FED values it at, it's still a piece of "paper"
Wow, that comparison is awful. $100 bill is legal tender that has been assigned a value by the government. It's worth $100, that will not change until the Feds say otherwise.
First of all it's the FED not the Feds, the FBI has nothing to do with it.
I would call a lie on this one, if you please? FBI and FED are both controlled by the same people, or so I've heard. That combined with the fact that FED is instrument of wealth redistribution* and FBI is instrument of force, makes it have a lot to do with it.
* forceful wealth redistribution is a form of stealing.
I was under the impression we were to recieve cards today. Mana said he had the cards before. More bull@&$$ is all it is. Time is up.
Take pictures of you envelops and pm them to the members you are sending them to. It will help take some heat off you.
Quote from: Piotr on August 02, 2013, 04:28:37 PM
Quote from: EvACiDe on July 31, 2013, 10:58:55 AM
Quote from: #noided on July 31, 2013, 09:52:40 AM
Quote from: EvACiDe on July 31, 2013, 12:18:38 AM
Quote from: Slenderbro on July 30, 2013, 10:47:10 PM
Ok i think this kid deserves punishment as much as anyone else, but let's sit back and be realistic.
We arent going to legally pursue a minor for stealing pieces of paper...
Just think about what was actually stolen. No matter how much starcity or tcgplayer values them at, they are still pieces of paper.
Just thought i'd throw that out there seeing all the extensive legal research some of you have put into this.
Is this really your argument? It isn't always about the value of what was lost, it's the principle of feeling cheated, the wasted time, etc. besides, going by what you said a $100 bill is just a paper, who cares what the FED values it at, it's still a piece of "paper"
Wow, that comparison is awful. $100 bill is legal tender that has been assigned a value by the government. It's worth $100, that will not change until the Feds say otherwise.
First of all it's the FED not the Feds, the FBI has nothing to do with it.
I would call a lie on this one, if you please? FBI and FED are both controlled by the same people, or so I've heard. That combined with the fact that FED is instrument of wealth redistribution* and FBI is instrument of force, makes it have a lot to do with it.
* forceful wealth redistribution is a form of stealing.
You're from the uk right? Both the FED and FBI are run by the same branch of gov't, but have separate and distinct "jobs" if you will. And I suppose the FED was the incorrect word, it's the National Treasury. But the initial determination of the $1 USD was NOT under the umbrella of responsibility of the FBI
Quote from: Roro on August 02, 2013, 04:42:45 PM
I was under the impression we were to recieve cards today. Mana said he had the cards before. More bull@&$$ is all it is. Time is up.
Soooo, the @ made my phone go to my email lol
Quote from: Silent1236 on August 02, 2013, 09:53:51 PM
Quote from: Roro on August 02, 2013, 04:42:45 PM
I was under the impression we were to recieve cards today. Mana said he had the cards before. More bull@&$$ is all it is. Time is up.
Soooo, the @ made my phone go to my email lol
That's so funny you mention that! Not just like 10 seconds before, I did the exact same thing.
Quote from: Silent1236 on August 02, 2013, 09:53:51 PM
Quote from: Roro on August 02, 2013, 04:42:45 PM
I was under the impression we were to recieve cards today. Mana said he had the cards before. More bull@&$$ is all it is. Time is up.
Soooo, the @ made my phone go to my email lol
Me too hahaha
Pertaining to trial. If I don't have a tracking number tomorrow I want justice. I will prefer a banned. Tired of lies. I'm disappointed at the effect he has had on my trading and extremely disappointed at the amount of time and energy WASTED on this whole ordeal. Over two moths ago mana stole 25 dollars in cards from me by deception and swindle. He admitted it. Now he has not kept his word to fix it. Time up. Justice please.
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on August 02, 2013, 12:40:34 PM
I'm just glad that All-Mana Mania is recognizing what he did wrong, working to make things right and not arguing about punishment; it's really mature of you.
Continually lying about restitution and saying he doesn't care about his karma is not exactly mature.
Quote from: Roro on August 02, 2013, 11:27:35 PM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on August 02, 2013, 12:40:34 PM
I'm just glad that All-Mana Mania is recognizing what he did wrong, working to make things right and not arguing about punishment; it's really mature of you.
Continually lying about restitution and saying he doesn't care about his karma is not exactly mature.
It's not mature at all it's more of a distraction to the real problem.
Quote from: Hunteroffire9 on August 03, 2013, 10:08:02 AM
Quote from: Roro on August 02, 2013, 11:27:35 PM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on August 02, 2013, 12:40:34 PM
I'm just glad that All-Mana Mania is recognizing what he did wrong, working to make things right and not arguing about punishment; it's really mature of you.
Continually lying about restitution and saying he doesn't care about his karma is not exactly mature.
It's not mature at all it's more of a distraction to the real problem.
I really think you have it out for Mania. 😉 But I don't think he's lying... And I think he's being VERY mature.
Mature isn't going on vacation when he had cards to send. It doesn't matter if he's accepted his fate, that's all fine and well but thats the right thing to do, and yet no cards have shown up. I can see why some people are more than a little frustrated with the kid. Repeatedly breaking his promises, that's not mature.
Well the thing with the vacation, he is a kid, his parents decided when they were going on vacation. He shouldn't have been trading before that, or at least wrapped up his trades before he left be he didn't. Also, he is making amends or at least trying, which is a refreshing change from the majority of trials where the accused just lies and pretends they did nothing wrong (ex. Imink).
Quote from: Mlerner12 on August 03, 2013, 10:09:56 AM
Quote from: Hunteroffire9 on August 03, 2013, 10:08:02 AM
Quote from: Roro on August 02, 2013, 11:27:35 PM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on August 02, 2013, 12:40:34 PM
I'm just glad that All-Mana Mania is recognizing what he did wrong, working to make things right and not arguing about punishment; it's really mature of you.
Continually lying about restitution and saying he doesn't care about his karma is not exactly mature.
It's not mature at all it's more of a distraction to the real problem.
I really think you have it out for Mania. 😉 But I don't think he's lying... And I think he's being VERY mature.
I have nothing further to add to this. I was ripped off. Ill move on
Well, it's not. They should get cards Tuesday?? Or wedsneday. And my punishment to myself is that I'm not going to go on here anymore, well at least not the forum.
Received a watery grave and two overgrown tomb today. Not the godless and 2 hallowed fountain he said he bought to send. I've received cards to finish this trade is enough.
Quote from: Taysby on August 07, 2013, 05:09:09 PM
maby he messed up on the addresses?
I highly doubt it.
Quote from: EvACiDe on August 07, 2013, 05:34:33 PM
Quote from: Taysby on August 07, 2013, 05:09:09 PM
maby he messed up on the addresses?
I highly doubt it.
Why? Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Quote from: Piotr on August 07, 2013, 05:40:20 PM
Quote from: EvACiDe on August 07, 2013, 05:34:33 PM
Quote from: Taysby on August 07, 2013, 05:09:09 PM
maby he messed up on the addresses?
I highly doubt it.
Why? Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Well I'm not going to say its impossible. But I remember being 13, not taking responsibilities seriously.
Quote from: EvACiDe on August 07, 2013, 05:47:40 PMI remember being 13, not taking responsibilities seriously.
I'm too old to remember being 13 ;)
Quote from: Piotr on August 07, 2013, 06:00:06 PM
Quote from: EvACiDe on August 07, 2013, 05:47:40 PMI remember being 13, not taking responsibilities seriously.
I'm too old to remember being 13 ;)
:) me too. Lol. I really don't have a personal issue with the kid. Trading is business. And this trial was about business is all. At least for me. It's been so long I forget who the other victim was, with the land. Did they recieve??
I was the other person with the land. And I received the card from all mana today:)
Thanks for returning the cards finnaly!
So, is that everyone?
Quote from: Xaol on August 09, 2013, 02:41:58 PM
Quote from: InfinitiveDivinity on August 09, 2013, 01:16:16 PM
So, is that everyone?
I am still waiting on my payment.
Did he agree to still buy your repacks after all of this came to light?
Quote from: Mikefrompluto on August 09, 2013, 03:45:33 PM
Quote from: Xaol on August 09, 2013, 02:41:58 PM
Quote from: InfinitiveDivinity on August 09, 2013, 01:16:16 PM
So, is that everyone?
I am still waiting on my payment.
Did he agree to still buy your repacks after all of this came to light?
Yeah. I don't think it's happening so it's okay of he doesn't.
Ah gotcha.