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Magic (The Gathering) => Rules => Topic started by: prayos on July 01, 2013, 12:08:41 PM

Title: Ratchet Bomb
Post by: prayos on July 01, 2013, 12:08:41 PM
{Ratchet Bomb}

Got into a very heated discussion over this wonderful card this past weekend. The argument revolved over the ability to respond to the second ability. My not-so-worthy opponent maintained that once I tap it to sacrifice, he could respond and destroy it. I maintained that since the sacrifice is part of the cost, that you wouldn't be able to respond to the sacrifice. He felt that this was wrong because "then token decks wouldn't be able to respond appropriately." To which I told him, "Of course they could. They could scoop, cause token decks suck." (He's a known token junkie.)

So, here I am, putting it to you iMTG. Who's right?
Title: Re: Ratchet Bomb
Post by: Paraluke on July 01, 2013, 12:15:22 PM
Once you have declared to activate it, only a counter like  {Stifle} would stop it.

He destroys your creature, yes, but the ability still happens.

So yea, go ask him to read more rules.
Title: Re: Ratchet Bomb
Post by: Paraluke on July 01, 2013, 12:25:49 PM
Here are the rules:

112.7a (http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?action=imtg;area=rule;number=112.7a): Once activated or triggered, an ability exists on the stack independently of its source. Destruction or removal of the source after that time won't affect the ability. Note that some abilities cause a source to do something (for example, "Prodigal Pyromancer deals 1 damage to target creature or player") rather than the ability doing anything directly. In these cases, any activated or triggered ability that references information about the source because the effect needs to be divided checks that information when the ability is put onto the stack. Otherwise, it will check that information when it resolves. In both instances, if the source is no longer in the zone it's expected to be in at that time, its last known information is used. The source can still perform the action even though it no longer exists.

RESOLVED
Title: Re: Ratchet Bomb
Post by: Charbelchers rage on July 01, 2013, 12:29:05 PM
Yeah bro your right he's wrong, It's like trying to {reverberate} a counter to counter a counter, it doesn't work since the original counter goes off first.
Title: Re: Ratchet Bomb
Post by: Giggle the Draco Genius on July 01, 2013, 01:49:55 PM
Quote from: Charbelchers rage on July 01, 2013, 12:29:05 PM
Yeah bro your right he's wrong, It's like trying to {reverberate} a counter to counter a counter, it doesn't work since the original counter goes off first.

Actually you can counter a counter if you {reverberate} a counter. It will go in the stack above it there fore going off first and countering the original counter
Title: Re: Ratchet Bomb
Post by: Charbelchers rage on July 01, 2013, 07:48:47 PM
Oh nice to know I run red alot so that's a godsend
Title: Re: Ratchet Bomb
Post by: Destore117 on July 02, 2013, 01:40:52 PM
Counter a counter. With a counter...got it...
Title: Re: Ratchet Bomb
Post by: Charbelchers rage on July 02, 2013, 01:45:00 PM
Anyway it's the pancake analogy which I just discovered recently, while his destruction goes off ratchets ability cannot be interrupted once activated, you can't stop it, except.... Maybe a boomerang? Guys this is somewhat confusing
Title: Re: Ratchet Bomb
Post by: TheRagingMage on July 02, 2013, 03:09:57 PM
Quote from: Charbelchers rage on July 02, 2013, 01:45:00 PM
Anyway it's the pancake analogy which I just discovered recently, while his destruction goes off ratchets ability cannot be interrupted once activated, you can't stop it, except.... Maybe a boomerang? Guys this is somewhat confusing
A pancake analogy? Like:  bread is to butter as pancake is to maple syrup?
Or maybe:  dirt is to yucky as pancake is to yummy?
Lol.
Title: Re: Ratchet Bomb
Post by: Charbelchers rage on July 02, 2013, 06:18:23 PM
The stack yes... I should have elaborated, basically your... Bolt is first on the stack and is at the bottom, a counter though if played lays on top of it, thus it goes first an counters it. You stack spells in such a way where the latest instant has the highest priority, yet non can prevent another happening except counters right?