Can {Duskmantle Guildmage} and {Mindcrank} be used for an instant win?
Yup. :)
I run this in my modern dimir deck :) it's so fun!
How much mana do you need to pull this off?
Quote from: Agarrita80 on June 21, 2013, 07:41:07 PM
How much mana do you need to pull this off?
The set up, have both the guild Mage and mindcrank on the board. Use 3 mana to activate dusk mantles first ability, then mill at least one card anyway you can.
{codex shredder} so that it's just one:)
Very fast very cool! Is {Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinker} in there?
Quote from: scarsabrex on June 21, 2013, 09:02:42 PM
Quote from: Agarrita80 on June 21, 2013, 07:41:07 PM
How much mana do you need to pull this off?
The set up, have both the guild Mage and mindcrank on the board. Use 3 mana to activate dusk mantles first ability, then mill at least one card anyway you can.
It's even slightly more nasty than that - once both are on the board and the Guildmage's first ability is active, you don't have to mill a card to start the combo. Any card entering an opponent's grave from anywhere will trigger it, so kill a creature, mill, discard, or destroy a permanent will all work. You can also make the opponent lose life from damage or something like {Sign in blood} to start the combo off of mindcrank's trigger.
4 turns....
{Ghoulcaller's Bell}
{Mindcrank}
{Duskmantle Guildmage}
Activate guildmage, tap bell
Great for multiplayer!!!!
Or {Vapor Snag}
Can someone explain to me how this combo works? I'm just not understanding the whole combo :(
Quote from: Destore117 on June 30, 2013, 04:07:52 AM
Can someone explain to me how this combo works? I'm just not understanding the whole combo :(
{Duskmantle Guildmage}'s first activated ability says "whenever an opponent puts a card in their graveyard (from anywhere) this turn, they lose one life."
{Mindcrank} says "Whenever you lose life, put a card in your graveyard from your library for each life lost."
So, if you cause your opponent to lose life in any way...
-Opponent loses one life. Loss off life causes Mindcrank to trigger.
-Mindcrank trigger puts one card from their library into the graveyard. The card being put into the grave triggers the Guildmage ability.
-Guildmage trigger causes opponent to lose one life. Loss of life triggers Mindcrank again.
-mindcrank and Guildmage trigger off of each other repeatedly until your opponent is dead from loss of life triggers.
Or, you can start the combo by causing any card to enter their graveyard, and the same thing will happen. Only difference is it would start with the Guildmage trigger instead of mindcrank, but they would still loop off of each other.
Wouldn't that not work because of rules 104.4b (http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?action=imtg;area=rule;number=104.4b): If a game that's not using the limited range of influence option (including a two-player game) somehow enters a "loop" of mandatory actions, repeating a sequence of events with no way to stop, the game is a draw. Loops that contain an optional action don't result in a draw., 104.4f (http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?action=imtg;area=rule;number=104.4f): In a multiplayer game using the limited range of influence option, if the game somehow enters a "loop" of mandatory actions, repeating a sequence of events with no way to stop, the game is a draw for each player who controls an object that's involved in that loop, as well as for each player within the range of influence of any of those players. Only those players leave the game; the game continues for all other players., 716.4. (http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?action=imtg;area=rule;number=716.4.): If a loop contains only mandatory actions, the game is a draw. (See rules 104.4b and 104.4f.), and 801.18. (http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?action=imtg;area=rule;number=801.18.): If the game somehow enters a "loop" of mandatory actions, repeating a sequence of events with no way to stop, the game is a draw for each player who controls an object that's involved in that loop, as well as for each player within the range of influence of any of those players. They leave the game. All remaining players continue to play the game.? It is a loop of mandatory actions once it starts, right?
Quote from: Gleemax on July 01, 2013, 03:18:50 AM
Wouldn't that not work because of rules 104.4b (http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?action=imtg;area=rule;number=104.4b): If a game that's not using the limited range of influence option (including a two-player game) somehow enters a "loop" of mandatory actions, repeating a sequence of events with no way to stop, the game is a draw. Loops that contain an optional action don't result in a draw., 104.4f (http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?action=imtg;area=rule;number=104.4f): In a multiplayer game using the limited range of influence option, if the game somehow enters a "loop" of mandatory actions, repeating a sequence of events with no way to stop, the game is a draw for each player who controls an object that's involved in that loop, as well as for each player within the range of influence of any of those players. Only those players leave the game; the game continues for all other players., 716.4. (http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?action=imtg;area=rule;number=716.4.): If a loop contains only mandatory actions, the game is a draw. (See rules 104.4b and 104.4f.), and 801.18. (http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?action=imtg;area=rule;number=801.18.): If the game somehow enters a "loop" of mandatory actions, repeating a sequence of events with no way to stop, the game is a draw for each player who controls an object that's involved in that loop, as well as for each player within the range of influence of any of those players. They leave the game. All remaining players continue to play the game.? It is a loop of mandatory actions once it starts, right?
It's difficult to actually make an infinite combo that has no end at all. The {Mindcrank} combo works; it ends when the opponent is out of life, or when there are no more cards to mill. Once it starts, there is an end.
Quote from: Keyeto on July 01, 2013, 03:47:28 AM
Quote from: Gleemax on July 01, 2013, 03:18:50 AM
Wouldn't that not work because of rules 104.4b (http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?action=imtg;area=rule;number=104.4b): If a game that's not using the limited range of influence option (including a two-player game) somehow enters a "loop" of mandatory actions, repeating a sequence of events with no way to stop, the game is a draw. Loops that contain an optional action don't result in a draw., 104.4f (http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?action=imtg;area=rule;number=104.4f): In a multiplayer game using the limited range of influence option, if the game somehow enters a "loop" of mandatory actions, repeating a sequence of events with no way to stop, the game is a draw for each player who controls an object that's involved in that loop, as well as for each player within the range of influence of any of those players. Only those players leave the game; the game continues for all other players., 716.4. (http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?action=imtg;area=rule;number=716.4.): If a loop contains only mandatory actions, the game is a draw. (See rules 104.4b and 104.4f.), and 801.18. (http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?action=imtg;area=rule;number=801.18.): If the game somehow enters a "loop" of mandatory actions, repeating a sequence of events with no way to stop, the game is a draw for each player who controls an object that's involved in that loop, as well as for each player within the range of influence of any of those players. They leave the game. All remaining players continue to play the game.? It is a loop of mandatory actions once it starts, right?
It's difficult to actually make an infinite combo that has no end at all. The {Mindcrank} combo works; it ends when the opponent is out of life, or when there are no more cards to mill. Once it starts, there is an end.
But, a player dying because of a life total of 0 or less is a state-based action, which only are checked when a player gains priority, so the loop would not end when your opponent is at 0 or less life because no player would gain priority.
Quote from: Gleemax on July 01, 2013, 03:56:16 AM
Quote from: Keyeto on July 01, 2013, 03:47:28 AM
Quote from: Gleemax on July 01, 2013, 03:18:50 AM
Wouldn't that not work because of rules 104.4b (http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?action=imtg;area=rule;number=104.4b): If a game that's not using the limited range of influence option (including a two-player game) somehow enters a "loop" of mandatory actions, repeating a sequence of events with no way to stop, the game is a draw. Loops that contain an optional action don't result in a draw., 104.4f (http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?action=imtg;area=rule;number=104.4f): In a multiplayer game using the limited range of influence option, if the game somehow enters a "loop" of mandatory actions, repeating a sequence of events with no way to stop, the game is a draw for each player who controls an object that's involved in that loop, as well as for each player within the range of influence of any of those players. Only those players leave the game; the game continues for all other players., 716.4. (http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?action=imtg;area=rule;number=716.4.): If a loop contains only mandatory actions, the game is a draw. (See rules 104.4b and 104.4f.), and 801.18. (http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?action=imtg;area=rule;number=801.18.): If the game somehow enters a "loop" of mandatory actions, repeating a sequence of events with no way to stop, the game is a draw for each player who controls an object that's involved in that loop, as well as for each player within the range of influence of any of those players. They leave the game. All remaining players continue to play the game.? It is a loop of mandatory actions once it starts, right?
It's difficult to actually make an infinite combo that has no end at all. The {Mindcrank} combo works; it ends when the opponent is out of life, or when there are no more cards to mill. Once it starts, there is an end.
But, a player dying because of a life total of 0 or less is a state-based action, which only are checked when a player gains priority, so the loop would not end when your opponent is at 0 or less life because no player would gain priority.
Nevermind, I see. The loop would end when the library is empty, and the guildmage's ability would not trigger anymore. And the triggered abilities would give the active player priority when they activate. You're right.
Quote from: Gorzo on June 30, 2013, 05:55:09 AM
Quote from: Destore117 on June 30, 2013, 04:07:52 AM
Can someone explain to me how this combo works? I'm just not understanding the whole combo :(
{Duskmantle Guildmage}'s first activated ability says "whenever an opponent puts a card in their graveyard (from anywhere) this turn, they lose one life."
{Mindcrank} says "Whenever you lose life, put a card in your graveyard from your library for each life lost."
So, if you cause your opponent to lose life in any way...
-Opponent loses one life. Loss off life causes Mindcrank to trigger.
-Mindcrank trigger puts one card from their library into the graveyard. The card being put into the grave triggers the Guildmage ability.
-Guildmage trigger causes opponent to lose one life. Loss of life triggers Mindcrank again.
-mindcrank and Guildmage trigger off of each other repeatedly until your opponent is dead from loss of life triggers.
Or, you can start the combo by causing any card to enter their graveyard, and the same thing will happen. Only difference is it would start with the Guildmage trigger instead of mindcrank, but they would still loop off of each other.
hey the card mind crank says when your oppntent loses life they put a card in their grave yard not when you lose life and this would not work it creates a loop
Quote from: DrizztDoUrden on July 06, 2013, 05:50:01 AM
Quote from: Gorzo on June 30, 2013, 05:55:09 AM
Quote from: Destore117 on June 30, 2013, 04:07:52 AM
Can someone explain to me how this combo works? I'm just not understanding the whole combo :(
{Duskmantle Guildmage}'s first activated ability says "whenever an opponent puts a card in their graveyard (from anywhere) this turn, they lose one life."
{Mindcrank} says "Whenever you lose life, put a card in your graveyard from your library for each life lost."
So, if you cause your opponent to lose life in any way...
-Opponent loses one life. Loss off life causes Mindcrank to trigger.
-Mindcrank trigger puts one card from their library into the graveyard. The card being put into the grave triggers the Guildmage ability.
-Guildmage trigger causes opponent to lose one life. Loss of life triggers Mindcrank again.
-mindcrank and Guildmage trigger off of each other repeatedly until your opponent is dead from loss of life triggers.
Or, you can start the combo by causing any card to enter their graveyard, and the same thing will happen. Only difference is it would start with the Guildmage trigger instead of mindcrank, but they would still loop off of each other.
hey the card mind crank says when your oppntent loses life they put a card in their grave yard not when you lose life and this would not work it creates a loop
Read the last four entries before yours to the thread. They'll answer your question.
I didn't have a question I read the threads it creates a loop so the game world be a draw
Only a mandatory loop with no end would end the game in a draw. This loop ends when the opponent is out of cards to mill. Also, the opponent would die when he/she has 0 or less life and state-based actions are checked. Because both abilities are triggered, the active player gains priority when they resolve, killing the opponent. There is an end to the loop, therefore the rule that causes the game to end in a draw wouldn't end the game.