Can looking at a card (persay a double faced card) in play, without asking to look at the card, (to see both sides) force a concede in standard league play? (looking for tournament/league rules unless stated otherwise)
Okay lets give a example in-game senario... I have in play the double faced garruk (both sides have pictures, both sides do something different) is it legal for my opponent to pick up and look at that card (both sides) without prior permission to do so?
I would have to 👊 him in his 😖 for touching my cards without asking.......so it would lead to me being kicked out. Hence the reason I do not play in tourneys.....my 😡 issues. Somehow I do not think that answers your question 😜
See rule 400.2 for details about public zones.
Remembering that transform cards are not the flip cards they talk about.
Looks like you need a different win strategy.
Well i brought this issue up to a judge in a league, there was no rule he could think of that states "you must ask to look another players card" therefore i stated "so you may as well play the game hands viewable?" he came back with "well thats the way the games played" so i stated "well [privilaged information] means that i know my deck better than someone elses, therefore if there is NO privilaged information you may as well play the game placing the cards openly viewable on the table "unless" there is a card in league play that allows you to look at one anothers cards" he replyed "leagues already started so... Cant change the rules now" and i stated "then we all play cards viewable" everybody got angry and i havent been back in to see if theyre still playing that way... (its been 2 weeks and its a weekly league) so... Just wondering... Is it possible to force a concede for an instance as such stated above... (because there is a card in legendary that if you ask to look at it you lose... Thats why i brought up this issue)
Please read the rule I stated above (and possibly those related to public and hidden zones (use keyword search if necessary)
And let me know if you still have any more questions regarding this issue.
Edit hidden zone not private
Rule 707.5 does that mean they are forced to concede?
The flip side is an object however, and it IS face down...
A transform card is always played face up, unless otherwise specified. "exiled face down" etc.
Once a card is in play, it is face up (revealed) again unless otherwise specified.
The face down cards in the case may be in reference to 'morph' cards. And others with similar abilities.
Okay, lets look at this from another angle... Yes the card is placed on the battlefield faced up, transform however causes the card to be flipped, also causing a new object to appear on the field, what im asking is can privilaged information cause a player to force a concede for looking at a privilaged side of a transform card?
In laymens terms answer simple "yes" or "no" otherwise i can carry this argument on all day... Lol
They have access to the information on the other side of the card. Personally I would find grabbing other players materials without asking to be poor sportsmanship. Like grabbing their library and counting the card remaining or grabbing their graveyard. It's rude, but not flat out illegal. You could ask them to ask first and if they refuse, a judge might intervene in those terms.
Quote from: BlackJester on March 01, 2012, 09:53:56 AM
They have access to the information on the other side of the card. Personally I would find grabbing other players materials without asking to be poor sportsmanship. Like grabbing their library and counting the card remaining or grabbing their graveyard. It's rude, but not flat out illegal. You could ask them to ask first and if they refuse, a judge might intervene in those terms.
Ty ill have to get more clarification on this... Perhaps from mtg itself...
Quote from: Xavier on March 01, 2012, 09:50:36 AM
... can privilaged information cause a player to force a concede for looking at a privilaged side of a transform card?
In laymens terms answer simple "yes" or "no"...
No. You cannot force a concede by this happening.
A little bit of leniency goes a long way, and most people that play this game are doing so for fun.
But instead by continuing to harp on about something you don't fully understand or thinking you have a clause that no-one else may have found that will auto win you games, a. Takes all the fun out of playing, and b. makes you look like a dick.
And other than making you look like a dick, you may get kicked out for trying to exploit rules.
If, on the other hand you are polite, use manners, and allow people a bit of common courtesy (sometimes not so common it seems) the enjoyment of the game may be shared among new found friends.
With all do respect i am a dick... But that also doesnt mean "should a player look at a card s/he is not legally able to" (also to teach, like should a person have a lure effect on a creature with deathtouch and designate all damage to one creature and not several, only that one creature dies) should be either forced to concede or have the game end in draw... I perfer to have the game end in draw rather than force a ff... Sheesh (although i understand your point) lets not get into a fight online about it? Because then we both look like techno-geek body-builder wannabies!
Quote from: Xavier on March 01, 2012, 10:39:19 AM
With all do respect i am a dick... But that also doesnt mean "should a player look at a card s/he is not legally able to" (also to teach, like should a person have a lure effect on a creature with deathtouch and designate all damage to one creature and not several, only that one creature dies) should be either forced to concede or have the game end in draw... I perfer to have the game end in draw rather than force a ff... Sheesh (although i understand your point) lets not get into a fight online about it? Because then we both look like techno-geek body-builder wannabies!
CR711.1c While a double-faced card is in a public zone, each player may look at both faces. In other zones, each player that is allowed to look at a double-faced card may look at both faces.
My apologies if I have come across a bit too abrasive. (it's been a really long day but that's no excuse)
Not looking to start a fight, not at all.
Just trying to explain the rules as they are.
My point I was trying to make (about being a dick) may not translate as well across cultures as I had imagined. Lol
Quote from: BlackJester on March 01, 2012, 11:35:02 AM
Quote from: Xavier on March 01, 2012, 10:39:19 AM
With all do respect i am a dick... But that also doesnt mean "should a player look at a card s/he is not legally able to" (also to teach, like should a person have a lure effect on a creature with deathtouch and designate all damage to one creature and not several, only that one creature dies) should be either forced to concede or have the game end in draw... I perfer to have the game end in draw rather than force a ff... Sheesh (although i understand your point) lets not get into a fight online about it? Because then we both look like techno-geek body-builder wannabies!
CR711.1c While a double-faced card is in a public zone, each player may look at both faces. In other zones, each player that is allowed to look at a double-faced card may look at both faces.
I would say that sums it up. I'd still 👊 his 😲. Ok maybe not, I just like usin emoji 😜
FAV ⬆
That discussion was an awesome read, boys! 🔨
But, if it is a morph card face down, he isn't legally able to see it, I think
I agree.