I'm currently using a deck with 21 lands, but no matter how many times I shuffle, my staring hand is packed with 4-6 lands. This has been going on for the past hour.
Any tips on what I can do to stop this?
These are the mysterious ways of variance. If you do it enough the lands you draw will eventually level out to approximately a third of your draws.
I tend to shuffle two ways when I riffle shuffle. Ill take the middle of the deck. About 30 cards the shuffle them into the remaining. Or I'll take a card from the bottom and top with my thumb and index finger fifteen times then shuffle the two piles together. I do either of these about five times. It seems to work about 90+% of the time
How about making six separate stacks of ten cards putting them on pile one then two and so on? It shuffles pretty well.
Quote from: Taysby on June 03, 2013, 11:42:26 PM
Take your mana in one pile and your other cards in another. Shuffle both piles liberally. Then take 1 land and put in in a new pile then take 2 other cards and put it on top of the pile. Repeat until both piles are now in one pile. (That pile should now be (l=land c=other card) lcclcclcclcclcclcclcclcclcc etc.). Now rifle shuffle 3 times. It is now sufficiently randomized and you know that your mana is equally spread throughout your dek.
Couldnt this be considerd "stacking" your deck though by some people.....
Yes. Never do it at FNM.
How is it stacking If you riffle it 3 times afterwards?
You separate the lands and put them back in a specific order (lcclcclcclcc). That is considered stacking by most people, whether or not you mix it up a little afterwards to show that it is "sufficiently randomized".It would piss people off at FNM, which is why I recommend you don't do any stacking shenanigans at FNM. Just pile shuffle once to make sure you have 60 cards (especially after game 1), then riffle at least 7 times. I am not saying you are a cheater if you do your method, but I am saying that it would be frowned upon by more than one person for sure.
Quote from: Coffee Vampire on June 04, 2013, 02:47:19 AM
You separate the lands and put them back in a specific order (lcclcclcclcc). That is considered stacking by most people, whether or not you mix it up a little afterwards to show that it is "sufficiently randomized".It would piss people off at FNM, which is why I recommend you don't do any stacking shenanigans at FNM. Just pile shuffle once to make sure you have 60 cards (especially after game 1), then riffle at least 7 times. I am not saying you are a cheater if you do your method, but I am saying that it would be frowned upon by more than one person for sure.
I agree with this.
I don't do it that way I was just wondering why you thought it was cheating. I do 5 piles just random order then mix those up then mix them all together. Then riffle a while.
Plus I've seen opponents actually grab the other persons deck and shuffle it themselves instead if cutting.
Some people frown upon their opponent shuffling their deck for them after they presented it, but in reality it is the best thing to do. Don't be afraid to shuffle your opponent's deck, and take your time. Obviously don't stall or be obnoxious, but for sure make sure that if your opponent stacked his or her deck, it sure as hell isn't stacked now!
Note that most people don't mind it, and there isn't anything wrong with it at all. In fact, in some higher level magic events, players are made to shuffle each other's deck. It is wise to do this, and if anyone comments on it when you do it, calmly reply that it is required by wizards that you, as the opponent, make sure that his or her deck is randomized, and that it is fully within your rights to shuffle your opponent's deck.
What i do is 1 land 2 cards, then riffle BEFORE I GO
then i riffle a bunch more before the game. At the end i riffle my remaining library, then individually stick the lands in randomly through the library, and stick 2-3 cards from my GY in randomly. Then i riffle a lot and usually have solid results. Sometimes i go through and break up huge land clumps between matches too.
Quote from: MisterJH on June 04, 2013, 11:55:43 AM
What i do is 1 land 2 cards, then riffle BEFORE I GO
then i riffle a bunch more before the game. At the end i riffle my remaining library, then individually stick the lands in randomly through the library, and stick 2-3 cards from my GY in randomly. Then i riffle a lot and usually have solid results. Sometimes i go through and break up huge land clumps between matches too.
This process is still considerd stacking because even after riffle shuffleing theres still a way to get all the cardz back in the same order. I cant remember where I found it but I had once found a website with demos and such to teach you how to stack any deck of cards shuffle and they still be a stacked deck. Its better to not even do it at all and just riffle shuffle or blind pile shuffle.
Quote from: Taysby on June 04, 2013, 11:48:21 AM
Ido my type of shuffling at fnm all the time. People start to get upset, until the realize I plan on doing riffle shuffling too, then all is good. All I do is get rid of mana clumps. I have no idea what I will be drawing. I just know that 98% of the mime, there will be no mana clumps of twenty on the bottom.
This is actually a form of stacking. By making "sure" there are no mana clumps, you have stacked your deck and have not sufficiently randomized it.
Quote from: Juggalonoke on June 04, 2013, 12:56:50 PM
Quote from: MisterJH on June 04, 2013, 11:55:43 AM
What i do is 1 land 2 cards, then riffle BEFORE I GO
then i riffle a bunch more before the game. At the end i riffle my remaining library, then individually stick the lands in randomly through the library, and stick 2-3 cards from my GY in randomly. Then i riffle a lot and usually have solid results. Sometimes i go through and break up huge land clumps between matches too.
This process is still considerd stacking because even after riffle shuffleing theres still a way to get all the cardz back in the same order. I cant remember where I found it but I had once found a website with demos and such to teach you how to stack any deck of cards shuffle and they still be a stacked deck. Its better to not even do it at all and just riffle shuffle or blind pile shuffle.
I side shuffle and riffle shuffle from random points too, noone would call me for stacking. Mostly cuz i do my stacking before i go :p it sets me up for a more randomized draw than if i put all my lands together. Ive never had a problem with y deck not being random, i still get 5 land opening hands often enough.
i do seven to nine rifle shuffles. i take the stack from the middle half the time, and from the top the other half. then i do that shuffle were you take half the deck and cram it into the other half of the deck. then i cut my deck into thirds, and rifle shuffle each pile together
Eh, doing all that sorting and stuff seems like an awful lot of work. I just pile shuffle when I build a deck or sideboard cards in/out, then riffle shuffle like crazy. After I build a deck, I riffle like 15-20 times and usually 3-5 times during a match. Sorting the lands out in a specific way just doesn't seem worth it. I get boned by my lands, so be it. Better luck next time.
I like to separate my land into a separate pile and then side shuffle them into the rest of the deck. Then make about 5-6 piles one card at a time and then rifle about a dozen times. All of this of course when I first put the deck together. During and between matches I usually just rifle about a dozen times, but sometimes make piles if I'm getting mana screwed. Seems to work ok, now if I can just get my playing to be as good as my shuffling.
I pile shuffle (five piles) then riffle about three - four times.
Noob question but what is "Riffle shuffling" ._.
Go search in YouTube...
Quote from: bravado883 on June 06, 2013, 03:50:20 PM
@ Coffee Vampire: The highest level events I have been to are SCG Opens, and they don't force you to shuffle your opponent's deck. Are there events that actually do that? It'd have to be a special rule, as the MtG rules state you "may" cut or shuffle your opponent's deck. Just curious.
This is never a mandatory thing, however in order to ensure that your opponents deck is actually randomized, it is best to rifle shuffle at least 5 times, then cut then present to them, sometimes I will even do a stack shuffle just to count the cards in their deck, why even start to play if they are trying to play an illegal deck... Instant win. But I only do this at gp's or ptq's... As long as you do it quickly and efficiently, and are respectful of their cards there really shouldn't be a problem.
Now, about land stacking.... No no no no no.... Let me repeat, NO.
This is the best way to get me to say "judge"...