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Mono Black Control...with Red 79 cards, 15 sideboard 4 {Dragonskull Summit} 16 {Swamp} 4 {Blood Crypt} 24 lands 3 {Griselbrand} 2 {Desecration Demon} 3 {Vampire Nighthawk} 4 {Crypt Ghast} 14 creatures 2 {Tragic Slip} 2 {Liliana of the Dark Realms} 3 {Sign in Blood} 2 {Liliana of the Veil} 2 {Ultimate Price} 2 {Rakdos's Return} 2 {Mutilate} 2 {Duress} 2 {Victim of Night} 3 {Dreadbore} 2 {Bonfire of the Damned} 2 {Devour Flesh} 26 other spells Sideboard 2 {Typhoid Rats} 2 {Victim of Night} 2 {Slaughter Games} 2 {Mikaeus, the Unhallowed} 4 {Gloom Surgeon} 3 {Crypt Incursion} 15 sideboard cards

I need to cut a few more cards. I'm thinking maybe tragic slip and/or typhoid rats

I'd cut typhoid rats for sure, and maybe shave 1 off a few other things. Maybe throw duress into the sideboard?

I would cut  {Mutilate}.  It is pretty pricey for what it does.  You would be better off with  {Dreadbore} in a sideboard.

Quote from: Juggleboy360 on May 22, 2013, 03:33:00 PM
I'd cut typhoid rats for sure, and maybe shave 1 off a few other things. Maybe throw duress into the sideboard?

Ok that makes sense, I forgot my sideboard so I'll make sure I post that soon

Quote from: Dmreiss on May 22, 2013, 04:46:01 PM
I would cut  {Mutilate}.  It is pretty pricey for what it does.  You would be better off with  {Dreadbore} in a sideboard.

If you dont mind explaining your thought process why do you say that? Mutilate is my only source of world kill and dreadbore is a conditionless kill card along with a capability of destroying pesky planeswalkers

Mutalate is awsome

Quote from: Legends784 on May 22, 2013, 06:23:41 PM

Quote from: Juggleboy360 on May 22, 2013, 03:33:00 PM
I'd cut typhoid rats for sure, and maybe shave 1 off a few other things. Maybe throw duress into the sideboard?

Ok that makes sense, I forgot my sideboard so I'll make sure I post that soon

Quote from: Dmreiss on May 22, 2013, 04:46:01 PM
I would cut  {Mutilate}.  It is pretty pricey for what it does.  You would be better off with  {Dreadbore} in a sideboard.

If you dont mind explaining your thought process why do you say that? Mutilate is my only source of world kill and dreadbore is a conditionless kill card along with a capability of destroying pesky planeswalkers

Don't cut the {Mutilate}s. i would up them to 4. They work wonders in my BR control. Honestly i would cut the  {Crypt Ghast}, it a pipe dream of turn 4 ghast into turn 5  {Griselbrand}. You will be dead to argo decks by then.

Quote from: Bapr on May 22, 2013, 08:23:21 PM
Don't cut the {Mutilate}s. i would up them to 4. They work wonders in my BR control. Honestly i would cut the  {Crypt Ghast}, it a pipe dream of turn 4 ghast into turn 5  {Griselbrand}. You will be dead to argo decks by then.

I think I like the mutilates at 3 just because if I'm getting destroyed by quick aggro, mutilates wont be able to help until turn 4 when it may be to late already. As far as {crypt ghast}, that's literally my win con, I can't take that out. I can mana ramp into {bonfire of the damed}, {griselbrand}, or {rakdos's return} as well as provide extra mana for more kill spells.
Which is why I bring up the point of kill spells, I run 11 kill spells as well as 2 {liliana of the veils}, and 3 {nighthawks}, if aggro can manage to kill me by turn 4 with all of that than I will applaud the maker of that deck

Quote from: Bapr on May 22, 2013, 08:23:21 PM

Quote from: Legends784 on May 22, 2013, 06:23:41 PM

Quote from: Juggleboy360 on May 22, 2013, 03:33:00 PM
I'd cut typhoid rats for sure, and maybe shave 1 off a few other things. Maybe throw duress into the sideboard?

Ok that makes sense, I forgot my sideboard so I'll make sure I post that soon

Quote from: Dmreiss on May 22, 2013, 04:46:01 PM
I would cut  {Mutilate}.  It is pretty pricey for what it does.  You would be better off with  {Dreadbore} in a sideboard.

If you dont mind explaining your thought process why do you say that? Mutilate is my only source of world kill and dreadbore is a conditionless kill card along with a capability of destroying pesky planeswalkers

Don't cut the {Mutilate}s. i would up them to 4. They work wonders in my BR control. Honestly i would cut the  {Crypt Ghast}, it a pipe dream of turn 4 ghast into turn 5  {Griselbrand}. You will be dead to argo decks by then.

In my {heartless summoning} mono black deck, I can consistently hit 6-8 mana turn 4 for griselbrand. The really only way I can do this is via crypt ghast tho. It's not a pipe dream. It works. Consistently.
If they don't remove crypt ghast he gets out of control, if they do, play another or some other threat.

{Mutilate} is blacks best reset. By far. I also like to try and have a  {Mikaeus, the Unhallowed} out before hand for some crazy shenanigans. :)

The rats, the demon, and the nighthawks deserve a critical look. In a world where creatures are judged by their etb abilities, these cards may not be as good anymore. {Desecration Demon} and {Vampire Nighthawk} were decent in old standard, when we had {Lashwrithe}, and when creatures were mainly used for beatsticks, not as much for their etb abilities as now.

Not telling you to cut them, just take a look at your meta. If it is dominated by control, a 6/6 flier for 4 means nothing. They will boardwipe. Control players are happy when people play desecration demon. Trust me, I am one of them! However if it is an aggro world you live in, try out the creatures. Nighthawk is probably better than demon because it gains you life. Also, your opponent can just sac a late 1/1 {Champion of the Parish} to get rid of demon for one turn so they can alpha strike. I like nighthawk better for defending against aggro.

One card you may want to consider is {Staff of Nin}. It's easy to cast (especially with {Crypt Ghast}), and it gives you card advantage even when you have to waste 2 removal spells on 1 {Thragtusk}. You can often ride a single staff of nin to victory against midrange or control.

Good luck with the deck dude!

Thanks for the ideas everyone, the meta at my shop was originally riddled with aggro which is why I created this deck but now it's switching more towards esper Ætherling control and 4 color control so I'm going to be running 4 {pithing needle} sideboard and I need some more solutions when versing control

 {Slaughter Games} is great against control.
As is {Witchbane Orb}. Ovbiously depending on what kind of control they are running, they will have different elements you can target to shut them down.
Control games will usually look for a lockdown and games will often go long. For games like this, card draw is vital. Having card advantage is what control will try and do most times, if you can disrupt this in any way, while advancing your own, you will most likely see some annoyed opponents.

Make sure you have a win condition tho, as there is not point going to time if you can't bank a win.

Quote from: Legends784 on May 22, 2013, 09:11:45 PM

Quote from: Bapr on May 22, 2013, 08:23:21 PM
Don't cut the {Mutilate}s. i would up them to 4. They work wonders in my BR control. Honestly i would cut the  {Crypt Ghast}, it a pipe dream of turn 4 ghast into turn 5  {Griselbrand}. You will be dead to argo decks by then.

I think I like the mutilates at 3 just because if I'm getting destroyed by quick aggro, mutilates wont be able to help until turn 4 when it may be to late already. As far as {crypt ghast}, that's literally my win con, I can't take that out. I can mana ramp into {bonfire of the damed}, {griselbrand}, or {rakdos's return} as well as provide extra mana for more kill spells.
Which is why I bring up the point of kill spells, I run 11 kill spells as well as 2 {liliana of the veils}, and 3 {nighthawks}, if aggro can manage to kill me by turn 4 with all of that than I will applaud the maker of that deck

I ran a very similar deck and the ghast were the under performers. Your turn 4 play is critical. You will need to either play mutilate, slam down Olivia, or play two of blacks situational removal. Aggro decks won't waste removal on the rats or the night hawks, they know what's conning after ghast hits the board and will more than likely remove it as soon as you pass. Remember you're playing a control deck, you don't want to rely on 1 for 1 trade offs all game.

Quote from: Bapr on May 23, 2013, 12:24:07 AM

Quote from: Legends784 on May 22, 2013, 09:11:45 PM

Quote from: Bapr on May 22, 2013, 08:23:21 PM
Don't cut the {Mutilate}s. i would up them to 4. They work wonders in my BR control. Honestly i would cut the  {Crypt Ghast}, it a pipe dream of turn 4 ghast into turn 5  {Griselbrand}. You will be dead to argo decks by then.

I think I like the mutilates at 3 just because if I'm getting destroyed by quick aggro, mutilates wont be able to help until turn 4 when it may be to late already. As far as {crypt ghast}, that's literally my win con, I can't take that out. I can mana ramp into {bonfire of the damed}, {griselbrand}, or {rakdos's return} as well as provide extra mana for more kill spells.
Which is why I bring up the point of kill spells, I run 11 kill spells as well as 2 {liliana of the veils}, and 3 {nighthawks}, if aggro can manage to kill me by turn 4 with all of that than I will applaud the maker of that deck

I ran a very similar deck and the ghast were the under performers. Your turn 4 play is critical. You will need to either play mutilate, slam down Olivia, or play two of blacks situational removal. Aggro decks won't waste removal on the rats or the night hawks, they know what's conning after ghast hits the board and will more than likely remove it as soon as you pass. Remember you're playing a control deck, you don't want to rely on 1 for 1 trade offs all game.

I run an extremely similar deck myself. I love the deck so much and wouldn't change a thing in mine. But {Crypt Ghast} is a very big glass cannon. With that said I run a playset, lol.

 {Crypt Ghast} is a must.  {Slaughter Games} for the sb. Get rid of ultimate price, or move it to the sb. I actually like the  {Typhoid Rats} rats as an aggro slower, but it may be sb material.  So move rats and price to sb to go down to 60.

There was a suggestion to play  {Staff of Nin} which I like. I play a mono black control on mtgo. I also love  {Underworld Connections}. I play that instead of  {Sign in Blood}. Make sure to have graveyard hate in the sideboard ie  {Beckon Apparition}, or  {Crypt Incursion}. Planeswalkers are really hard to deal with as mono black. So I like the  {Dreadbore}. I would have 4 totaled (2 in main and 2 in sb). Also,  {Appetite for Brains} does a lot of work from the sideboard.

Spoiler alert: coming in M14

{Ratchet Bomb}. There's some help for mono black/ red control!

Try running {Gloom Surgeon} in the SB. He 💩 on Aggro so hard!

I added a sideboard, I'm debating addin {staff of nin}

Quote from: Legends784 on May 22, 2013, 06:23:41 PM

Quote from: Juggleboy360 on May 22, 2013, 03:33:00 PM
I'd cut typhoid rats for sure, and maybe shave 1 off a few other things. Maybe throw duress into the sideboard?

Ok that makes sense, I forgot my sideboard so I'll make sure I post that soon

Quote from: Dmreiss on May 22, 2013, 04:46:01 PM
I would cut  {Mutilate}.  It is pretty pricey for what it does.  You would be better off with  {Dreadbore} in a sideboard.

If you dont mind explaining your thought process why do you say that? Mutilate is my only source of world kill and dreadbore is a conditionless kill card along with a capability of destroying pesky planeswalkers

You are right.  It shouldn't be cut.  In your deck you need it.  I generally play much faster decks with lots of cheap creatures, so you would want to play it against me.  So you should definitely cut it then.

I run 4 {Mutilate}. It's needed in the current meta. {Gloom Surgeon} in the SB is really just to get you to turn 4 so you can wipe the board then start doing crap of your own.

Anyone think I should put {curse of deaths hold} in?

Quote from: Legends784 on May 24, 2013, 01:43:22 PM
Anyone think I should put {curse of deaths hold} in?

It's a good sb card. Maybe 2 of.

Anyone know of some ways I could stop bant auras? Theres 3 people At my shop running it and I'm getting fucked