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Magic (The Gathering) => Rules => Topic started by: Malachiracer on May 16, 2013, 03:49:05 PM

Title: Tokens
Post by: Malachiracer on May 16, 2013, 03:49:05 PM
Do tokens count as creatures in graveyard when dead?
Title: Re: Tokens
Post by: Keyeto on May 16, 2013, 03:49:55 PM
No, but they will set off "dying" triggers and abilities. Once they hit the graveyard, they cease to exist.

And here's the ruling on tokens outside of the battlefield:

110.5f: A token that's phased out, or that's in a zone other than the battlefield, ceases to exist. This is a state-based action; see rule 704. (Note that if a token changes zones, applicable triggered abilities will trigger before the token ceases to exist.)
Title: Re: Tokens
Post by: Malachiracer on May 16, 2013, 03:54:06 PM
What if I want to bring back zombie tokens with
Title: Re: Tokens
Post by: MementoMori on May 16, 2013, 03:55:30 PM
Once tokens leave the battlefield, they cease to exist. There's no opportunity to bring them back.
Title: Re: Tokens
Post by: Agarrita80 on May 17, 2013, 01:35:11 AM
Would undying work on a token?
Title: Re: Tokens
Post by: Paraluke on May 17, 2013, 03:01:19 AM
My opinion it might just be, since undying seems to be a triggered effect.
Title: Re: Tokens
Post by: Millionlittlee on May 17, 2013, 03:12:26 AM
Quote from: Agarrita80 on May 17, 2013, 01:35:11 AM
Would undying work on a token?
[/quote

I don't think so undying triggers when the creature enters the graveyard were tokens never enter the graveyard they just disappear
Title: Re: Tokens
Post by: Gorzo on May 17, 2013, 04:06:49 AM
Quote from: Millionlittlee on May 17, 2013, 03:12:26 AM
Quote from: Agarrita80 on May 17, 2013, 01:35:11 AM
Would undying work on a token?

I don't think so undying triggers when the creature enters the graveyard were tokens never enter the graveyard they just disappear

The tokens do enter the graveyard, which trigger effects involving dying (including the undying trigger). However, the token then immediately ceases to exist as a state-based action that does not use the stack, so when the trigger attempts to resolve, it fails to find it's "target" (itself, the token that had undying) and the trigger is countered, because it cannot bring back something that doesn't exist.

Short answer: it fails. So no, undying doesn't work on tokens.
Title: Re: Tokens
Post by: Paraluke on May 17, 2013, 04:56:38 AM
Nice explanation, thanks gonzo
Title: Re: Tokens
Post by: InfinitiveDivinity on May 17, 2013, 05:38:28 AM
Quick question, can one respond with a {Cemetery Reaper} before a token ceases to exist in the GY?
Title: Re: Tokens
Post by: Millionlittlee on May 17, 2013, 05:40:46 AM
Quote from: InfinitiveDivinity on May 17, 2013, 05:38:28 AM
Quick question, can one respond with a {Cemetery Reaper} before a token ceases to exist in the GY?

If the tokens used the stack yes, but unfortunately tokens in the grave do not, so you could not.
Title: Re: Tokens
Post by: Paraluke on May 17, 2013, 06:37:07 AM
Ehm it does say target creature card, so I guess it does not work in the first place...?
Title: Re: Tokens
Post by: Mlerner12 on October 23, 2013, 07:58:59 AM
Quote from: Paraluke on May 17, 2013, 04:56:38 AM
Nice explanation, thanks gonzo
Gorzo. In September, I'm gonzo. ;)
Title: Re: Tokens
Post by: Remillo on October 23, 2013, 02:37:34 PM
Quote from: Paraluke on May 17, 2013, 06:37:07 AM
Ehm it does say target creature card, so I guess it does not work in the first place...?

This.

Cards exist in all zones other than the battlefield.  Creatures only exist on the battlefield and are Creature Cards in any other zone.  Tokens are not cards, and never will be cards, and as such can't be used for costs or effects that require (or target) cards.  Mostly because they just don't exist in zones that reference cards.
Title: Re: Tokens
Post by: Steerpike on October 23, 2013, 03:15:44 PM
Keep in mind the Regenerate effect does work on tokens because, as opposed to bringing them back from another zone, it prevents the zone change in the first place
Title: Re: Tokens
Post by: Spikepit on October 23, 2013, 07:29:06 PM
Quote from: Remillo on October 23, 2013, 02:37:34 PM
Cards exist in all zones other than the battlefield.  Creatures only exist on the battlefield and are Creature Cards in any other zone. Tokens are not cards, and never will be cards, and as such can't be used for costs or effects that require (or target) cards.  Mostly because they just don't exist in zones that reference cards.
Nice explanation!!!