Like my last post, this came up during draft, and is really just a nitpick to help me nail down timing rules better.
He had a Lobber Crew, and cast some multicolored creature. In response to his cast, he tapped the Lobber Crew for the ping, then untapped it because of the multicolored spell. I told him that was fine, but that he needed to rearrange things so that he tapped the Lobber Crew, THEN cast the spell, because "on cast" triggers hit when the spell goes on the stack, not when it resolves. For last nights purposes, it wasn't important, but there's bound to be a point where it is, so was I accurate, or unneccesarily AND incorrectly being a rules lawyer?
Either way is correct. Both casting and activated abilities use the stack. You can tap for a damage. Than cast your mc spell and untap, or you can do it in response. For your example, it wouldn't have mattered which way it was done, but there are scenarios where you would rather use the stack than letting things resolve one at a time.
You are correct. "Cast" essentially means "pay the mana, and put it on the stack" and he should have had to rearrange the way it all happened.
I bow to keyeto's infinitely greater knowledge...
I misunderstood the op
Assuming I'm correct in that triggered abilities use the stack and that the untapping effect of {lobber crew} doesn't check wether it is tapped or not before going on the stack, wouldn't the opponent be able to tap when he has priority in response to the trigger going onto the stack? Apologies for the run-on sentence.
Quote from: Keyeto on May 11, 2013, 01:44:56 PM
You are correct. "Cast" essentially means "pay the mana, and put it on the stack" and he should have had to rearrange the way it all happened.
Careful now, triggered abilities do indeed use the stack and he is welcome to put more on the stack before that trigger resolves. Only upon resolution will the lobber be untapped.
I would imagine it is exactly like {Gelectrode}, which when playing DOTP it allows me to tap in response to casting a spell, then untaps on resolution.
I've been proven wrong by this program in the past so I've taken it as pretty much true form for things like this.
Lets look at it a little differently. With the scenario that the OP presented, lets say the defender counters the multicolored spell. Doesn't this in effect, remove that spell from the stack.
My understanding would lead me to believe that Keyoto is correct about the "cast" definition thus making it so that the {lobber crew} would not be able to untap.
This is similar to the extor trigger. It only says that a spell must be cast, not necessarily resolve.
Please correct me if my interpretation is incorrect.
Edit: the rules for {lobber crew} explain that you will untap before the spell resolves, so if its on the stack, (already been cast) and then you tap lobber crew, it should not untap.
Ok...let me put this a different way then. If your lobber crew is tapped and I have one life. You cast a charm that triggers lobber's untap. Can I murder it before it kills me? Yes because triggering is not the same as resolving. Just like when a spell is cast everyone gets a chance to respond before the resolution of the trigger. Also just like a spell triggers have costs and effects. Lobber's cost is "cast a multicolor spell" it's effect is "untap lobber crew" and just like with a spell the space between the cost and the effect is when players can respond to it.
The same is true if it is untapped. The trigger is placed on the stack, active player decides if they want to do anything such as tap te lobber, then they pass priority. If priorityis passed back the the active player with nothing new being added then the top layer of the stack resolves in this case one damage from the lobber. Then they pass priority again, this time allowing lobber to untap when priority makes it back without new additions on te stack. Then lastly the origional spell resolves after a third priority pass with no additions