Attack with {Utvara Hellkite} and others then in response to the hellkites trigger use {Dragonshift} for more dragon tokens. Would this work?
Yeah. But I recommend playing it before combat anyway.
The Hellkite's ability will not trigger for attacking with a non-dragon. If it sees a creature declared as an attacker, if its a dragon, it triggers. If not, it doesn't, and turning it into a dragon afterward won't help, since the ability never went off in the first place.
Yeah but Utvara is a dragon so wouldn't it cause it's own trigger to go off?
Yes, but this doesn't depend on {dragonshift}
The point of this is , when the hellkites ability triggers and is on the stack, will {Dragonshift}ing all my other creatures give me more dragon tokens?
Quote from: Quisequise on April 30, 2013, 11:05:45 AM
The point of this is , when the hellkites ability triggers and is on the stack, will {Dragonshift}ing all my other creatures give me more dragon tokens?
No, as my previous post said. It won't trigger, since when those creatures were declared attackers, they weren't dragons,
"when creature attacks" triggers go off when something is declared as an attacker. By the time you turn them into dragons, it will be too late, as they will have already been declared attackers before the Dragonshift, and will have missed their chance to set off the Hellkite's "when a dragon attacks" trigger. Sorry if my previous post was unclear.
I'm going to go ahead and make another post, to make sure this is clear.
First off, triggered abilities go off each time their condition is met. Each trigger is seperate.
Say you have the Hellkite and two 1/1 goblins on the field. You declare your attackers, attacking with everything.
Hellkite's ability sees that a dragon (itself) is attacking, and goes on the stack. If there were more dragons on the field attacking, this would be the time they would (individually) trigger his ability.
Blockers are declared, blah blah, you play {Dragonshift}. Everything becomes a Dragon. This will not have an impact on any trigger, since the only trigger on the stack is for Hellkite attacking. It would see that he is still a dragon, and carry on.
I believe you were thinking his ability was one big trigger, that checks everything before it resolves. This is not the case, since triggers go off seperately. I'll get the ruling for you in a bit here.
Here's the relevant rulings:
603.2. Whenever a game event or game state matches a triggered ability's trigger event, that ability automatically triggers. The ability doesn't do anything at this point.
603.2c An ability triggers only once each time its trigger event occurs. However, it can trigger repeatedly if one event contains multiple occurrences. See also rule 509.4.
Besides, {Utvara Hellkite} would lose the ability if you overload {Dragonshift}.
Ah alright Keyeto, thanks for the second post. The first one was a little hard to grasp. I didn't think it would work but now I'm glad I know why.
Quote from: Quisequise on April 30, 2013, 11:44:27 AM
Ah alright Keyeto, thanks for the second post. The first one was a little hard to grasp. I didn't think it would work but now I'm glad I know why.
No problem, glad to clear things up. After reading the second post, I was like "Ah dang, that's still not so clear. Better give an example." Glad it helped!
Even if it did check, an overloaded dragon shift would disable utvara's ability
It would require an absolute butt-load of mana, but it is possible to get the desired result (mostly).
Overload {Dragonshift} with your multitude of creatures out, and {Utvara Hellkite} still in your hand. Now that you have your army of dragons, play the Hellkite, swing with dragons, get lots of tokens.
Okay, so it takes 15 mana, but at least I'm trying to help lol.
15 mana is not that hard to get to in a deck with blue if you make it about combos in this range. You could always flicker after the shift, and BAM! He is again what he once was, and for mere 8 mana, when the OP was willing to pay 7 anyway
Just get {Conspiracy}
Why couldn't you use {Dragonshift} on one of the other attacking cards before you attack? That creature would be a dragon until the end of turn causing {Utvara Hellkite}'s ability to trigger, but please correct me if I'm wrong.
Quote from: Wingnut on April 30, 2013, 08:48:25 PM
Why couldn't you use {Dragonshift} on one of the other attacking cards before you attack? That creature would be a dragon until the end of turn causing {Utvara Hellkite}'s ability to trigger, but please correct me if I'm wrong.
As long as its done before attackers are declared, it will work, since the Hellkite will see a Dragon being declared as an attacker.
Quote from: Wingnut on April 30, 2013, 08:48:25 PM
Why couldn't you use {Dragonshift} on one of the other attacking cards before you attack? That creature would be a dragon until the end of turn causing {Utvara Hellkite}'s ability to trigger, but please correct me if I'm wrong.
You could but the idea is to get many dragon tokens not just two.
Yeah ok, makes sense, that didn't click for some reason. You don't have the ability to cast anything while a card is exiled with {Cloudshift} correct? I don't believe so. You need a way of getting hellkite off the board temporarily, but this you already know.
Quote from: Wingnut on May 01, 2013, 04:11:45 PM
You don't have the ability to cast anything while a card is exiled with {Cloudshift} correct?
Yes. The exile and return all happen during the spell's resolution, and no one has priority while a spell is resolving.
You could just Dragonshift, then Cloudshift, then go into combat. The Hellkite can't attack, but it'll trigger for all the others that can.