What is {Ral Zarek} Worth? Also is he worth buying or better off trading? Some people at my pre release pulled him and idk what to think about him. Its the 5 extra turns...
If you have him, trade him. He will go down. He's good, but not that good. His Ulty is so iffy, sure you can get 5 extra turns, but then again you could get none at all. His burn is decent, and his wind up is alright, but he's a new PW, that's why he's currently so high. (About $28)
EDIT: {Ral Zarek}
I was thinking about getting him but i may wait for a while
He's on the traditional "new Planeswalker" high curve. Probably settle around $15 or so? It wasn't all that long ago {Jace, Architect of Thought} was $50 because someone won a tournament playing 4 of them. He settled where he should be, which is still too high considering he's a mini-{Fact or Fiction} and card advantage is expensive.
I believe {Ral Zarek} is very playable, but Green is the best color right now - and he isn't that color. It's a bit of a stretch to include him in a deck where he isn't needed - aggro pretty much beats face without him. The extra turns are nice, but seems a bit of a winmore thing. If you truly need 5 turns in arow to effectively win, you're doing something wrong.
But planeswalkers are not judged on their ultimates. +1 and -2 abilities are very relevant, and they should see the most play, it's nice how he costs 4, but it's really 3 if you use the first ability to untap the land you used to cast him.
I agree with dudecore, the extra five turns is nice but it is still chancy, more then likely you will win one or two of those coin flips maybe three but as dudecore said if you need those extra turns to win your probably doing something wrong, also his other two abilities don't effect the game enough to give him much credit either, for example {Jace, Memory Adept} hits the board and forces your opponent to react or die in 5 or less turns (if playing average 60 card deck) ral zarek dosent do this he hits the field and tamiyos/searing spears but dosent give a major game altering or game winnig ability such as {Lilliana of the veil}, {tamiyo the moon sage} and as previously mentioned {jace memory adept} so as a planes walker I'd rank him somewhere around {vraska the unseen}. But that's just my opinion
Quote from: Everforward on April 29, 2013, 08:06:16 PM
I agree with dudecore, the extra five turns is nice but it is still chancy, more then likely you will win one or two of those coin flips maybe three but as dudecore said if you need those extra turns to win your probably doing something wrong, also his other two abilities don't effect the game enough to give him much credit either, for example {Jace, Memory Adept} hits the board and forces your opponent to react or die in 5 or less turns (if playing average 60 card deck) ral zarek dosent do this he hits the field and tamiyos/searing spears but dosent give a major game altering or game winnig ability such as {Lilliana of the veil}, {tamiyo the moon sage} and as previously mentioned {jace memory adept} so as a planes walker I'd rank him somewhere around {vraska the unseen}. But that's just my opinion
Actually statistical chances are you'll win 2.5 coin flips :p or otherwise 2-3.
Well knowing my luck I'd get zero out of the five lol :P
Quote from: Everforward on April 29, 2013, 08:53:02 PM
Well knowing my luck I'd get zero out of the five lol :P
Statistics and odds aside, it'll be rare you don't get a single one. The way I look at his ultimate, is an extra turn, just one. Pretty much gonna happen, if I get more, great. The odds are good you'll get a couple turns
His ultimate is a pretty Timmy (http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/mr220b) thing to do. I could take it or leave it. He's a good Planeswalker, his second ability reminds me of {Sorin, Lord of Innistrad} - based on the type of line you take to get there. Pump him up, drop him down, up, down, up, up, up, down, down, down. I'd basically float him the whole time until I won.
His first ability does not protect him however, that needs to be mentioned. The tap is until the end of turn - so {Tamiyo, the Moon Sage} wins this fight.
Quote from: Hays413 on April 29, 2013, 08:56:48 PM
Quote from: Everforward on April 29, 2013, 08:53:02 PM
Well knowing my luck I'd get zero out of the five lol :P
Statistics and odds aside, it'll be rare you don't get a single one. The way I look at his ultimate, is an extra turn, just one. Pretty much gonna happen, if I get more, great. The odds are good you'll get a couple turns
All great points I love all the extra turns I can get :), but as a playable card in standard format do you see it being competitive?
As far as planes walker go I feel like there are just more effective planes walkers as well as non planes walker cards that would be used instead of him.
His +1 seems more offensive than defensive. You tap one of there blockers, then untap and attacker or a work horse, and charge in with creatures and spells. His -2 ability seems decent, but mid-late game your going to be using it to ping the player.
i think his ulti could actualy be useful if you use it to set up a combo. So he could see play in combo decks, but the effect is way to expensive to realy be that effective in a combo deck. You'd have to +1 three or four turns in a row, then sac him with his ulti just to get the turns to set your combo up. And combo players realy have more tools available to them then {ral zarek}
He's a fixed {Ajani Vengeant}. To go along with a fixed {Mana Drain} ({Plasm Capture}), {Morphling} ({Ætherling}) and {Dark Confidant} ({Duskmantle Seer}). Seem to be "fixing" the powerlevel on some cards and passing them off as new.
His ulti could help you set up a combo though. Though combo players have better tools available. You would also have to sacrifice him to do it in a timely fashion
Quote from: Birdbrain on April 29, 2013, 10:24:28 PM
His ulti could help you set up a combo though. Though combo players have better tools available
It can do anything - but it is unnecessary. I can't think of a single combo deck that would be better for waiting on {Ral Zarek} to reach ultimate. His ultimate makes any deck better - understood. I don't like having no control over it, and I would never ever want to count on it.
Which is why I said combo players have better tools available
On another note: Return to Ravnica seems really boring creatively. Looking at most of the cards - they're retreads or stapled together.
Look at {Render Silent}. It's {Silence} and {Counterspell} stapled together...
{Sphinx's Revelation} is {Blue Sun's Zenith} with life gain attached.
{Ral Zarek} is {Ajani Vengeant} with a worse +1 and -2.
Kind of disappointing.
Maybe there is a reason they designed the set the way they did? They can't print new stuff all the time. They need to take a break to build stuff up creatively. Or bring something back to work with another set. There is also the absolute power R&D has as well
Quote from: Birdbrain on April 29, 2013, 10:48:57 PM
Maybe there is a reason they designed the set the way they did? They can't print new stuff all the time. They need to take a break to build stuff up creatively. Or bring something back to work with another set. There is also the absolute power R&D has as well
Well that's pretty troubling if that is actually the case. Mythic is supposed to be a spot for creative cards that can't be printed at Rare - like {Epic Experiment}.
Not a spot to repair {Ajani Vengeant} or cash grab with {Sphinx's Revelation}. We got 11 new keywords in the format, that is very very good. Lots of mechanics. We did however get a myriad of repaired and stapled cards.
I hope they start to appeal to veteran players as well as new players. Though the new world order seems geared towards new players. And I'm not sure that's going away soon
I wish they had more interactions with the mechanics personally, althought some may disagree saying they had plenty. I wouldve rathered a more streamlined set if they were so focused on dual-tri colors(which is unecessarily expensive, and i feel way more of a turnoff to new players than too many counter spells...)
Actually. I've found the split cards to be reasonably priced for there effects. And the beck side of {beck//call} can be used in a kick @$$ combo
I disagree with zarek's first ability being worse than ajani's. they serve different purposes, ajani's serves to hinder your opponent's turn, while zarek's are better used to get him up to ultimate while either attacking (which makes your opponent have a hard time deciding wether to attack it and suffer the aggression of a UR deck or let it be and risk losing if the opponent gets 2 or more coins on his ultimate). It can also be used to re-set one tapping ability, or to set one creature which attacked to block again (which does protect him, like tamyo's)
Quote from: Dudecore on April 29, 2013, 10:58:42 PM
Quote from: Birdbrain on April 29, 2013, 10:48:57 PM
Maybe there is a reason they designed the set the way they did? They can't print new stuff all the time. They need to take a break to build stuff up creatively. Or bring something back to work with another set. There is also the absolute power R&D has as well
Well that's pretty troubling if that is actually the case. Mythic is supposed to be a spot for creative cards that can't be printed at Rare - like {Epic Experiment}.
Not a spot to repair {Ajani Vengeant} or cash grab with {Sphinx's Revelation}. We got 11 new keywords in the format, that is very very good. Lots of mechanics. We did however get a myriad of repaired and stapled cards.
Nonsense! {Urban Evolution} isn't even close to a stapled card 😄
I can see Ral being a toned down Vengeant now that you say that. He felt a little familiar, Vengeant is my favorite Planeswalker. Who knows, maybe M14, the set for new players, will change the course that we're on. (Highly doubt it...)
Missed {Urban Evolution}. {Divination} stapled to {Explore}. I could probably make a nice list one day if I put any effort into it.
They did create some original stuff though. Although I agree if there just going to staple cards together, why not just print the cards in the set?
I've got {Ral Zarek} and on Friday I'm trading him away before his price goes down to much!!!!
If you guys could rework his ulti, what would you do?
Quote from: Birdbrain on April 30, 2013, 04:04:30 PM
If you guys could rework his ulti, what would you do?
I would add:
For each coin that comes up tails, draw a card
Or maybe I would add to his ultimate:
For each coin that comes up tails, Ral deals 3 damage to target creature or player.
I would make it. For each tails you oppnants gets an extra turn after you extra turns you have
I hate the new world order crap, it needs just a LITTLE more for older players imo.. I find standard a little uninteresting for how expensive and fleeting it is, but my lgs only does standard
NWO only effects what can be printed at common. There isn't really an excuse for other things.
I think beck is meant for modern elves. Not much use in t2 but for sure a great addition to a combo deck.
Man, the more I look at Ral, the more I realize that he is not very good in control and off color for aggro. I've kinda forgotten what he's good for...
Quote from: Silent1236 on April 30, 2013, 09:58:36 PM
Man, the more I look at Ral, the more I realize that he is not very good in control and off color for aggro. I've kinda forgotten what he's good for...
EDH! Casual! Izzet Shenanigans!
Quote from: Xaol on April 30, 2013, 09:59:20 PM
Quote from: Silent1236 on April 30, 2013, 09:58:36 PM
Man, the more I look at Ral, the more I realize that he is not very good in control and off color for aggro. I've kinda forgotten what he's good for...
EDH! Casual! Izzet Shenanigans!
Decks that run {Krark's Thumb}!
Quote from: Keyeto on April 30, 2013, 10:01:03 PM
Quote from: Xaol on April 30, 2013, 09:59:20 PM
Quote from: Silent1236 on April 30, 2013, 09:58:36 PM
Man, the more I look at Ral, the more I realize that he is not very good in control and off color for aggro. I've kinda forgotten what he's good for...
EDH! Casual! Izzet Shenanigans!
Decks that run {Krark's Thumb}!
Haha I do want to get him just to ult once in a game and then throw him back in a binder.
Quote from: KangaRod on April 30, 2013, 09:39:36 PM
Also, just thought I might add, {Beck // Call} is a terrible card. 3 colour 8 mana to draw 4 cards and make 4 falcons at sorcery speed is just awful.
I'd rather just revel for 5.
you can put the card in an all {G}{U} and ignore call. Beck has some excellent combo potential. It's basicly a {glimpse of nature} which is on the banned list for modern
Personally I think they bit off more than they could chew with Dragon's Maze. It almost feels like they just rushed getting the set done.
Yeah not close to glimpse, but often better. For instance:
It counts opponent's creatures
It counts tokens
It triggers on ETB instead of cast, allowing you to stack triggers
I pulled him at prerelease but didn't play him there and I made a deck with krenko and him in a goblin izzet deck haven't got his ultimate but at one point I had 45 1/1 goblins on the battlefield and my opponent conceded
Quote from: Neids on May 01, 2013, 01:21:01 AM
I pulled him at prerelease but didn't play him there and I made a deck with krenko and him in a goblin izzet deck haven't got his ultimate but at one point I had 45 1/1 goblins on the battlefield and my opponent conceded
{intruder alarm} makes an infinite combo with krenko
Quote from: Coffee Vampire on April 30, 2013, 10:39:00 PM
Yeah not close to glimpse, but often better. For instance:
It counts opponent's creatures
It counts tokens
It triggers on ETB instead of cast, allowing you to stack triggers
The ETB requires resolution, ehh, it's decent.
I used his ultimate last night, got 4 extra turns. Cast {Aurelia, the Warleader}, swing for game. Pretty nasty. I tapped down all of his mana on each extra turn, so I basically couldn't lose.
Quote from: Dudecore on May 14, 2013, 08:22:49 AM
I used his ultimate last night, got 4 extra turns. Cast {Aurelia, the Warleader}, swing for game. Pretty nasty. I tapped down all of his mana on each extra turn, so I basically couldn't lose.
Do we get a decklist?
Quote from: Mentonin on May 14, 2013, 09:24:34 AM
Quote from: Dudecore on May 14, 2013, 08:22:49 AM
I used his ultimate last night, got 4 extra turns. Cast {Aurelia, the Warleader}, swing for game. Pretty nasty. I tapped down all of his mana on each extra turn, so I basically couldn't lose.
Do we get a decklist?
I'll post it later today when I'm off work.
http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?topic=17874.0
Deck posted. I use MTGO for testing. Played about 15 games with it, went 11-4.