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Magic (The Gathering) => Rules => Topic started by: Rasser on April 28, 2013, 08:03:16 PM

Title: Vorel & Gideon
Post by: Rasser on April 28, 2013, 08:03:16 PM
 Can {Vorel of the Hull Clade}'s ability be used for a counter on  {Gideon, Champion of Justice} or  {Gideon Jura} when he is a creature?
Title: Re: Vorel & Gideon
Post by: scarsabrex on April 28, 2013, 08:03:44 PM
Quote from: Rasser on April 28, 2013, 08:03:16 PM
Can {Vorel of the Hull Clade}'s ability be used for a counter on  {Gideon, Champion of Justice} or  {Gideon Jura} when he is a creature?

Yes
Title: Re: Vorel & Gideon
Post by: InfinitiveDivinity on April 28, 2013, 08:05:08 PM
Oh man! Damn straight it can! That's really good!
Title: Re: Vorel & Gideon
Post by: The1337Magician on April 28, 2013, 08:08:07 PM
No it can't. There are no counters on the creature. One's a 6/6 and the other is a */* with * being the counters on the planeswalker. No counters on the creatures.
So in short, No.
Title: Re: Vorel & Gideon
Post by: InfinitiveDivinity on April 28, 2013, 08:19:45 PM
But the creature still has the loyalty counters, why would they go away? That doesn't make sense.
Title: Re: Vorel & Gideon
Post by: Keyeto on April 28, 2013, 08:26:58 PM
Quote from: The1337Magician on April 28, 2013, 08:08:07 PM
No it can't. There are no counters on the creature. One's a 6/6 and the other is a */* with * being the counters on the planeswalker. No counters on the creatures.
So in short, No.
It doesn't turn into a creature. It becomes a creature "that's still a planeswalker", and planeswalkers have loyalty counters. The counters are not removed when he animates himself. It's a pretty cool trick!

Edit: To put it a bit more in perspective, its the same deal with +1/+1 counters on a keyrune. When it stops being a creature, it doesn't lose the counters. Counters remain on a permanent until that permanent changes zones, or an effect specifically takes them off/modifies them.

RESOLVED
Title: Re: Vorel & Gideon
Post by: Gorzo on April 29, 2013, 06:55:21 AM
Quote from: Wizardmook on April 29, 2013, 06:16:56 AM
Just so I understand Vorel, if you have say  {Shambleshark} with 3 +1/+1 counters and use  {Vorel of the Hull Clade} ability the shark would get 3 extra +1/+1 counters?

Correct, it duplates each and every counter.