iMtG Server: Gathering

Magic (The Gathering) => Rules => Topic started by: Birdbrain on April 26, 2013, 06:01:04 AM

Title: Combo question
Post by: Birdbrain on April 26, 2013, 06:01:04 AM
Lets say you had out the creature that prevented creatures from receiving -1/-1 counters, {gruul rage beast} and {kitchen finks} out, and something that prevented all damage to the rage beast. The kitchen finks was constantly fighting The rage beast. Could the rage beast still attack?
Title: Re: Combo question
Post by: Gorzo on April 26, 2013, 06:34:58 AM
Quote from: Birdbrain on April 26, 2013, 06:01:04 AM
Lets say you had out the creature that prevented creatures from receiving -1/-1 counters, {gruul rage beast} and {kitchen finks} out, and something that prevented all damage to the rage beast. The kitchen finks was constantly fighting The rage beast. Could the rage beast still attack?

If you control both, they can't fight - Rage beast only allows the entering creature to fight a creature that an opponent controls, and doesn't let you fight a creature you control.

However, if your opponent controls an Indestructible creature that would kill the Finks and you activate this combo, I believe you would get Triple-{Oblivion Ring} Syndrome. Rage Beast's trigger is non-optional, so it must occur if there is a legal target. They fight. Finks die, and re-enter via persist. Ragebeast's trigger, and finks' gain 2 life trigger (for what it's worth), are both added to the stack as they are not optional. The finks fight the indestructible creature again. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Infinite, non-optional, never-ending loop. Game ends in a draw, because the game cannot continue.

Edit #7: an additional note, different persist creatures may have different outcomes. For example, the same scenario with {Murderous Redcaps} instead will result in infinite 2 damage triggers that you can hit the enemy player with, and thus win the game.
Title: Re: Combo question
Post by: Birdbrain on April 26, 2013, 06:49:17 AM
Ok. Well Keyeto had said this

Quote from: Keyeto on April 25, 2013, 11:47:02 PM
And keep in mind the Ragebeast FORCES you to fight. I've seen players do themselves in by not keeping that in mind, and having to resort to fighting their own creatures!
Title: Re: Combo question
Post by: Birdbrain on April 26, 2013, 06:51:42 AM
And in the case of the redcaps, you could just cut out the rage beast all together
Title: Re: Combo question
Post by: Gorzo on April 26, 2013, 06:52:38 AM
Check the card: it reads "That creature fights target creature an OPPONENT controls."

You are not an opponent, and your creatures are therefore invalid targets.
Title: Re: Combo question
Post by: Gorzo on April 26, 2013, 06:57:13 AM
Quote from: Birdbrain on April 26, 2013, 06:51:42 AM
And in the case of the redcaps, you could just cut out the rage beast all together

True, as long as you have a way to repeatedly kill the redcaps. The current modern Melira combo deck uses {Viscera Seer}. I like the idea of using ragebeast as an alternate though, to start slamming your persisters into their whatever :P
Title: Re: Combo question
Post by: Pleeb on April 26, 2013, 05:37:23 PM
Damage only goes away at the end of a turn. The resolution of this scenario is all your opponents creatures are killed off. The exception is of course your opponent controls an indestructible creature.