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Decks (Magic The Gathering) => Standard => Topic started by: Bozo_Law on April 24, 2013, 07:41:35 PM

Title: Standard Metagame Discussion
Post by: Bozo_Law on April 24, 2013, 07:41:35 PM
What do you guys think of the metagame? I think that Aggro is really way too good, making aggro hosing cards a very big, important part of the metagame. I think that COntrol is also way too small of a portion of the metagame for the health of the metagame, being only 17% of it. Aggro, IMO, is what your decks should be focused on with Aggro variants representing a full half of the metagame, which I think is very unhealthy. Thoughts?
Title: Re: Standard Metagame Discussion
Post by: Kaleo42 on April 24, 2013, 07:47:27 PM
A majority of players are not experienced enough to play anything other than aggro. This inadvertently causes excessive aggro play testing that then lends to more experienced players taking that collective knowledge and dominating with an aggro deck. I did this with Wolf Blitz a few weeks ago. However that experience taught me everything I needed to know to follow up that 1st place with another the following week using Esper control. Another factor to consider is budget. Control cards more often bridge formats and are usually at higher rarities (this is intentional at the design level) this means it is more expensive to begin playing and maintain a control deck.

To sum up, aggro isnt winning because it is OP, it's winning because of the sheer numbers. If another deck is going to place high it has to never stumble, where as if an aggro deck stumbles another will take it's place.
Title: Re: Standard Metagame Discussion
Post by: Wsuryanjeska on April 24, 2013, 08:04:08 PM
Also, Aggro is more inconsistent (generally) then any other type of deck aside from maybe some combo decks. If you have a good hand, you'll usually win without a problem. If not, you probably aren't getting anywhere. But like Kaleo here said, with the sheer numbers of people playing aggro there is generally going to be someone who sees almost all good hands on any given night.
Title: Re: Standard Metagame Discussion
Post by: MisterJH on April 24, 2013, 08:08:04 PM
I want to see a discussion more about card selection than anything, as i believe, and have seen many arguments agreeing, that aggro simply has more available resources to build a strong deck in standars. Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Standard Metagame Discussion
Post by: Kaleo42 on April 24, 2013, 08:14:37 PM
That will always be the case. Like I said previously, card design puts control cards generally at a higher rarity. This is because fewer players will enjoy them or even understand them. A simple fact is that there are more commons and uncommons which means more options. Aggro has {reckless waif}, {burning tree emissary}, {lingering souls}, {boros charm}, {lightning mauler}, {diregraf ghoul}, {searing spear}, {centaur healer}, {avacyn's pilgrim}, {rancor}, the list goes on. Traditional control has things like {rewind}, {syncopate}, {think twice}, {detention sphere}, and not much else at lower rarities. Control in it's essence wants high value cards (playability wise) which usually lends to the card being high value (money wise).
Title: Re: Standard Metagame Discussion
Post by: Wackaman9001 on April 24, 2013, 08:23:30 PM
If I was going to play FNM at a store I've never played in before, if you had to choose a dec to play, what would it be?
Title: Re: Standard Metagame Discussion
Post by: Byerley121 on April 24, 2013, 08:29:43 PM
Esper control. It's what I play and it is really great in the current metagame.
Title: Re: Standard Metagame Discussion
Post by: Wsuryanjeska on April 24, 2013, 08:29:45 PM
Quote from: Kaleo42 on April 24, 2013, 08:14:37 PM
That will always be the case. Like I said previously, card design puts control cards generally at a higher rarity. This is because fewer players will enjoy them or even understand them. A simple fact is that there are more commons and uncommons which means more options. Aggro has {reckless waif}, {burning tree emissary}, {lingering souls}, {boros charm}, {lightning mauler}, {diregraf ghoul}, {searing spear}, {centaur healer}, {avacyn's pilgrim}, {rancor}, the list goes on. Traditional control has things like {rewind}, {syncopate}, {think twice}, {detention sphere}, and not much else at lower rarities. Control in it's essence wants high value cards (playability wise) which usually lends to the card being high value (money wise).

Your definition of 'control' seems a bit narrow to me. There are quite a few more common/uncommon (usable) cards at the disposal of control. And you don't need blue and white to make a 'control' deck.
Title: Re: Standard Metagame Discussion
Post by: Teysa karlov on April 24, 2013, 08:29:54 PM
Aggro is the meta game at my lgs, but I play Orzhov that is neither aggro, control, or midrange, as it will change on how I play it
Title: Re: Standard Metagame Discussion
Post by: Kaleo42 on April 24, 2013, 08:41:56 PM
Quote from: Wsuryanjeska on April 24, 2013, 08:29:45 PM
Your definition of 'control' seems a bit narrow to me. There are quite a few more common/uncommon (usable) cards at the disposal of control. And you don't need blue and white to make a 'control' deck.
Haha, it would appear you dont follow my deck postings at all. I was careful to use the phrase "traditional control" when making that list. Other cards like {centaur healer} for example can be used very effectively in control, but that does not make it a control card. Control now days is usually a hybrid of aggro based cards being used in a control shell until a win con can be used. Check my 5 color control deck deck on the Rogue T3ch page to see how I really think about control.

Edit: i bumbed it in general discussion.
Title: Re: Standard Metagame Discussion
Post by: Silent1236 on April 24, 2013, 09:09:17 PM
I'm just ready to see control decks that don't run {Nephalia Drownyard} and/or {Thragtusk} :-\
Title: Re: Standard Metagame Discussion
Post by: Teysa karlov on April 24, 2013, 09:11:13 PM
I hate {Thragtusk}, it screws up my control of life totals
Title: Re: Standard Metagame Discussion
Post by: Greg54js on April 24, 2013, 09:16:51 PM
I can't wait for thragtusk to rotate... he's such a beast it's not even funny... I'd rather see control come back...
As for the meta I'm done with seeing aggro and reanimator running rampant.. I like to see games go past turn 5 that have lots of interactions with the other deck.. not just "I'm gonna run out fatties and turn them sideways till you're dead" but "hmm, that's an interesting card, I'm going to do x,y, or z to said card"
Title: Re: Standard Metagame Discussion
Post by: Crapshooter on April 24, 2013, 09:28:27 PM
Quote from: Greg54js on April 24, 2013, 09:16:51 PM
I can't wait for thragtusk to rotate... he's such a beast it's not even funny... I'd rather see control come back...
As for the meta I'm done with seeing aggro and reanimator running rampant.. I like to see games go past turn 5 that have lots of interactions with the other deck.. not just "I'm gonna run out fatties and turn them sideways till you're dead" but "hmm, that's an interesting card, I'm going to do x,y, or z to said card"

Agreed
Title: Re: Standard Metagame Discussion
Post by: Kaleo42 on April 24, 2013, 09:33:25 PM
All it takes is one or two people to show your local meta that strait aggro is not the best answer. Thanks to my team the entire shop tries to come up with new and exciting ideas because we dont let the basic aggro decks win.
Title: Re: Standard Metagame Discussion
Post by: Byerley121 on April 24, 2013, 09:39:57 PM
Fortunatly my shops metagame is a lot of midrange but most of the newer players play aggro. I like playing long thought out games.
Title: Re: Standard Metagame Discussion
Post by: brybry723 on April 25, 2013, 12:04:35 AM
Quote from: Greg54js on April 24, 2013, 09:16:51 PM
I can't wait for thragtusk to rotate... he's such a beast it's not even funny... I'd rather see control come back...
As for the meta I'm done with seeing aggro and reanimator running rampant.. I like to see games go past turn 5 that have lots of interactions with the other deck.. not just "I'm gonna run out fatties and turn them sideways till you're dead" but "hmm, that's an interesting card, I'm going to do x,y, or z to said card"

Hate to be the one to tell you but Thragtusk is going to be reprinted in M14 so it won't be rotating out anytime soon >_> <_<
Title: Re: Standard Metagame Discussion
Post by: MisterJH on April 25, 2013, 12:25:39 AM
Is this a fact? If so im quitting standard when m14 is printed
Title: Re: Standard Metagame Discussion
Post by: Byerley121 on April 25, 2013, 12:26:15 AM
Well .poo..
Title: Re: Standard Metagame Discussion
Post by: MisterJH on April 25, 2013, 12:31:28 AM
Im retarded: when m14 comes is when m13 leaves. If hes being reprinted then 1) the magic gods are dumb af with their banhammer, not getting rid of like the most hated card in standard  and 2) i am going to destroy as many thragtusks with fire as possible.

Or they need to at least print some damn answer for him
Title: Re: Standard Metagame Discussion
Post by: Kaleo42 on April 25, 2013, 12:33:30 AM
I find it nearly impossible they would reprint him unless they did a cycle of thrags similar to the titans. The over printing in event decks is what clues me against them printing more in another set.
Title: Re: Standard Metagame Discussion
Post by: Byerley121 on April 25, 2013, 12:33:52 AM
They did, well kind of  {Turn // Burn}. But restoration angel is still a card so it won't be the greatest answer.
Title: Re: Standard Metagame Discussion
Post by: Silent1236 on April 25, 2013, 12:40:49 AM
Quote from: Kaleo42 on April 25, 2013, 12:33:30 AM
I find it nearly impossible they would reprint him unless they did a cycle of thrags similar to the titans.

That would actually be kinda cool. As long as they bumped 'em up to mythics
Title: Re: Standard Metagame Discussion
Post by: Crapshooter on April 25, 2013, 12:46:31 AM
Quote from: Byerley121 on April 25, 2013, 12:33:52 AM
They did, well kind of  {Turn // Burn}. But restoration angel is still a card so it won't be the greatest answer.

{Restoration Angel} is rotating in October, so it might be harder to abuse.
Title: Re: Standard Metagame Discussion
Post by: Calebestes on April 25, 2013, 05:34:54 AM
I love me some thragtusk.  I don't see why everyone hates him. 
Title: Re: Standard Metagame Discussion
Post by: izik99 on April 25, 2013, 07:23:23 AM
Just because swagtusk was shown in D14, doesnt mean hes in M14
Title: Re: Standard Metagame Discussion
Post by: MisterJH on April 25, 2013, 08:08:00 AM
A whole set of thrags or tusks? Im
Into that, as long as everyone has an awesomely BA card to use
Title: Re: Standard Metagame Discussion
Post by: Calebestes on April 25, 2013, 08:10:45 AM
He is just such a high value card!  5 life and a big body plus a 3/3.  Just awesome!
Title: Re: Standard Metagame Discussion
Post by: Byerley121 on April 25, 2013, 10:45:50 AM
If they reprint thragtusk then why would they print both swagtusk(fagtusk) and the new 2 mana 3/3
Title: Re: Standard Metagame Discussion
Post by: Greg54js on April 25, 2013, 10:54:54 AM
Kaleo you're lucky you have a team that you're part of. I can't just throw together decks because I do not have the funds or resources to build most control lists.

Also if they reprint tusk I'm quitting standard and just playing my cube until he is gone from standard. He is literally the biggest swing card in the format. He needs to die in a {worldfire}
Title: Re: Standard Metagame Discussion
Post by: Bozo_Law on April 25, 2013, 03:22:03 PM
I think that sweepers are very bad right now. Now that Naya Blitz has essentially disappeared, the only deck that sweepers really hurt is R/G aggro because the other decks either don't run many creatures or have already gotten value out of their creatures by the time that they are cast. Thoughts?
Title: Re: Standard Metagame Discussion
Post by: Byerley121 on April 25, 2013, 03:33:34 PM
It depends on what deck is running the sweeper. In esper and baby it is sti very good but in other decks such as R/W/U they arn't.
Title: Re: Standard Metagame Discussion
Post by: Leevai420 on April 25, 2013, 06:28:37 PM
When cavern rotates control will be very strong again.
Title: Re: Standard Metagame Discussion
Post by: Byerley121 on April 25, 2013, 06:54:55 PM
It will certainly be stronger.
Title: Re: Standard Metagame Discussion
Post by: Byerley121 on April 25, 2013, 07:50:55 PM
True, they defiantly printed a lot of cards for the control mirror
Title: Re: Standard Metagame Discussion
Post by: Crapshooter on April 25, 2013, 08:03:38 PM
I don't know I could see esper control with   {Debt to the Deathless} and  {Crypt Ghast}.
Title: Re: Standard Metagame Discussion
Post by: FlickerYourOwnIdentity on April 25, 2013, 08:30:23 PM
Quote from: Crapshooter on April 25, 2013, 08:03:38 PM
I don't know I could see esper control with   {Debt to the Deathless} and  {Crypt Ghast}.
Add {Realmwright}, and {Lilliana, of the Dark Realms} for extreme fun! :D
Title: Re: Standard Metagame Discussion
Post by: Crapshooter on April 25, 2013, 09:05:09 PM
Quote from: FlickerYourOwnIdentity on April 25, 2013, 08:30:23 PM
Quote from: Crapshooter on April 25, 2013, 08:03:38 PM
I don't know I could see esper control with   {Debt to the Deathless} and  {Crypt Ghast}.
Add {Realmwright}, and {Lilliana, of the Dark Realms} for extreme fun! :D

I think this deck should be made for fun.
Title: Re: Standard Metagame Discussion
Post by: Hunteroffire9 on April 25, 2013, 09:06:13 PM
Junk rites........ Look on tcgplayer it is almost now
The most played deck right bellow jund
Title: Re: Standard Metagame Discussion
Post by: MisterJH on April 25, 2013, 09:09:43 PM
Junk rites is seeing its last hoorah though, as long as there are no {unburial rites} type cards/{thragtusk} after rotation. I cant wait, i think standard will be way better with RtR block+new sets. Just my opinion, i dont like the innistad block all that much.