Personally I think they are over stated and should be removed from the game. Reason? Becuase it dictates on what is hypothetically a good card.
Example? Snapcaster being worth than most of the mythic rates in innistrad. And this isn't a lone example.
It's silly on how much a hobby can cost espcially on decent cards. Booster packs or trading.
Quote from: DevilGin on February 19, 2012, 06:13:14 PM
Personally I think they are over stated and should be removed from the game. Reason? Becuase it dictates on what is hypothetically a good card.
Example? Snapcaster being worth than most of the mythic rates in innistrad. And this isn't a lone example.
It's silly on how much a hobby can cost espcially on decent cards. Booster packs or trading.
So, is your problem with mythic rares vs. rares, or with rarities in general? Do you think that all cards should be printed in equal numbers?
@ Bj: I think he's saying that they should print them at the same rate but not have rarity colors.
Quote from: DevilGin on February 19, 2012, 06:13:14 PM
Personally I think they are over stated and should be removed from the game. Reason? Becuase it dictates on what is hypothetically a good card.
The bulk of a card's price isn't going to be determined by it's rarity. If they print a horrible mythic it will sell for 2 bucks or 1 buck even. Rarity hardly effects the price at all. You kinda proved it yourself:
Quote from: DevilGin on February 19, 2012, 06:13:14 PM
Example? Snapcaster being worth than most of the mythic rates in innistrad. And this isn't a lone example.
See? Even though {Snapcaster Mage} is a rare, he outprices many mythics because he is a boss card! :)
If rarity statuses were removed do you think Snapcaster would be worth lower or higher than the mythics? I doubt it would effect the price at all. People pay for what will win games and give them a fun experience...not for the color orange on their symbol lol
Edit: also I think WotC does a pretty good job of making good mythics anyways! ^^
Quote from: DevilGin on February 19, 2012, 06:13:14 PM
Personally I think they are over stated and should be removed from the game. Reason? Becuase it dictates on what is hypothetically a good card.
Example? Snapcaster being worth than most of the mythic rates in innistrad. And this isn't a lone example.
It's silly on how much a hobby can cost espcially on decent cards. Booster packs or trading.
It isn't that how rare something is determines how good it is, it is that how powerful the card is thought to be in production that does so. The fact that {snapcaster mage} is rare rather than mythic is that it is a really powerful card, and the devs didn't think it would be as powerful as it has proven to be. The reason it costs more is that a lot of people want it and there weren't as many of those printed as {dead weight} for instance. In fact right now, {immerwolf} is more expensive than {helavault}, despite being uncommon.
In summary, I personally do not think that rarity is overstated, and I think it is a crucial part of the game.
I do think that it is a little expensive for a hobby, but hey it can be worth it. ;)
Would somebody tell me the allure of {snapcaster Mage} I get you can cast a spell again. But what's the deal. Thanks.
Rarity does have an effect on the price. If people were pulling a snap caster as often as random common he would still be more then other commons but not more then a few bucks.
Also if he was a mythic his price would even be higher
We aren't saying rarity doesn't effect price...that would be foolish. We are saying that rarity STATUS doesn't effect price VERY MUCH.
Sure if Snappymage was a mythic he would be worth 5 bucjs more at the most. But that's a small fraction of his price.
Whether a symbol is black, silver, gold, or orange, a Snapcaster mage is only as good as a Snapcaster mage. And is only worth as much as a Snapcaster mage.
A card's price is what people are willing to pay for it. They aren't set by WotC or anything ;) Therefore, if a card sucks or is good, people will pay GENERALLY the same price no matter what color it is.
So yeah. You are right that rarity does effect price...but the argument is about status not actual rarity...
We aren't saying rarity doesn't effect price...that would be foolish. We are saying that rarity STATUS doesn't effect price VERY MUCH.
Sure if Snappymage was a mythic he would be worth 5 bucjs more at the most. But that's a small fraction of his price.
Whether a symbol is black, silver, gold, or orange, a Snapcaster mage is only as good as a Snapcaster mage. And is only worth as much as a Snapcaster mage.
A card's price is what people are willing to pay for it. They aren't set by WotC or anything ;) Therefore, if a card sucks or is good, people will pay GENERALLY the same price no matter what color it is.
So yeah. You are right that rarity does effect price...but the argument is about status not actual rarity...
Ok the status is more for the collector who makes money off selling the cards. If all cards were distributed equally then people wouldn't have to buy so many pack to get a play set. And if they didn't have to buy so many packs then the hobby would die. If people cannot make money on it they wouldn't sell it. So the only place you would be able to get cards from would be dedicated WotC dealers.
Do I agree with it no but I do understand why they do it
Hm yeah I can see where you're coming from! Interesting :0
Quote from: DevilGin on February 19, 2012, 06:13:14 PM
Personally I think they are over stated and should be removed from the game. Reason? Becuase it dictates on what is hypothetically a good card.
Example? Snapcaster being worth than most of the mythic rates in innistrad. And this isn't a lone example.
It's silly on how much a hobby can cost espcially on decent cards. Booster packs or trading.
There are good cards in any rarity. {Delver of Secrets}, {Gut Shot}.
The rarity of the game appeals to collectivity purposes. The flow of the game is based on demand, not rarity. If I didn't want to spend so much on Magic then I would be on Cockatrice and doing online drafts all the time.
I will agree with DevilGin in that they have missed th mark with some of their mythics and rares. Mythic status is supposed to be for killer chase cards like Planewalkers. They should have expected Snappy to be mythic worthy. And WTF is up with {Archangel's Light}? ???
The original intention, as described by WotC, was to use mythic status to let inexperienced player know which cards were worth holding on to. Recently they have not been doing so well in this. ðŸ˜"
LOL low at 1 buck and high at 14???!! Hahahahah wow...
Quote from: BlackJester on February 19, 2012, 11:21:57 PM
I will agree with DevilGin in that they have missed th mark with some of their mythics and rares. Mythic status is supposed to be for killer chase cards like Planewalkers. They should have expected Snappy to be mythic worthy. And WTF is up with {Archangel's Light}? ???
The original intention, as described by WotC, was to use mythic status to let inexperienced player know which cards were worth holding on to. Recently they have not been doing so well in this. ðŸ˜"
MaRo said that Archangel's Light was a last-minute card and they wanted to play it safe as last-minute cards burned them in the past (see {Umewaza's Jitte}, {Jace, the Mind Sculptor})
Quote from: Prophylaxis on February 20, 2012, 12:14:47 AM
Quote from: BlackJester on February 19, 2012, 11:21:57 PM
I will agree with DevilGin in that they have missed th mark with some of their mythics and rares. Mythic status is supposed to be for killer chase cards like Planewalkers. They should have expected Snappy to be mythic worthy. And WTF is up with {Archangel's Light}? ???
The original intention, as described by WotC, was to use mythic status to let inexperienced player know which cards were worth holding on to. Recently they have not been doing so well in this. ðŸ˜"
MaRo said that Archangel's Light was a last-minute card and they wanted to play it safe as last-minute cards burned them in the past (see {Umewaza's Jitte}, {Jace, the Mind Sculptor})
I know, but I don't think limited, high-costed life-gain will be breaking any formats. ðŸ˜
Quote from: BlackJester on February 20, 2012, 12:44:24 AM
Quote from: Prophylaxis on February 20, 2012, 12:14:47 AM
Quote from: BlackJester on February 19, 2012, 11:21:57 PM
I will agree with DevilGin in that they have missed th mark with some of their mythics and rares. Mythic status is supposed to be for killer chase cards like Planewalkers. They should have expected Snappy to be mythic worthy. And WTF is up with {Archangel's Light}? ???
The original intention, as described by WotC, was to use mythic status to let inexperienced player know which cards were worth holding on to. Recently they have not been doing so well in this. ðŸ˜"
MaRo said that Archangel's Light was a last-minute card and they wanted to play it safe as last-minute cards burned them in the past (see {Umewaza's Jitte}, {Jace, the Mind Sculptor})
I know, but I don't think limited, high-costed life-gain will be breaking any formats. ðŸ˜
R&D's loose guideline for mythic rares are "something that can do something awesome". This is basically a new player's dream card right here - life gain and anti-mill? Yes please! :D
I know, it just makes "seasoned vets" like me shake our heads. ðŸ˜"
Wow I didn't expect this to be popular :P but let me clarify I am angry at wotc at making some mythic rates /rares / uncommons no worthy of their status. for example snapcaster can easily be mythic rare status. Also isochron scepter can also be a rare. The problem is I find that becuase it is a 'mythic rare' doesn't make it worth the £10 at the beginning of the set. For example Geist traft was worth roughly £10 when it came out and now it's worth £22?! Compared to the other mythical like grimgrin It's double even triple the value. So why isn't Grimgrin worth £22? Becuase it's not used as much.
So the thing I'm getting at is they need to take care of what they see fit as their rarity statuses.
P.s I rant about alot of things. :p
Quote from: DevilGin on February 20, 2012, 04:31:31 PM
Wow I didn't expect this to be popular :P but let me clarify I am angry at wotc at making some mythic rates /rares / uncommons no worthy of their status. for example snapcaster can easily be mythic rare status. Also isochron scepter can also be a rare. The problem is I find that becuase it is a 'mythic rare' doesn't make it worth the £10 at the beginning of the set. For example Geist traft
{Geist of Saint Traft} deserves mythic status....are you saying it does not?
Rants are good! They polarize people and get them talking. I do know that they sometimes put "player-type" specific cards (cards a small group like, but not everyone) are rare just so players don't get as many copies.
There is a tough balance between the status of cards and their availability to players in Limited, or Sealed. Or just the availability in general. I think players would be 😡 if the Captains were all rare.
{Geist of Saint Traft} deserves mythic status....are you saying it does not?
[/quote]
Sorry edited my post xD using my phone ATM :-/ but an answer is yes he does but I think the other mythics are shadowed by how much he is and I think that's R&Ds fault :p
Quote from: DevilGin on February 20, 2012, 05:01:36 PM
Sorry edited my post xD using my phone ATM :-/ but an answer is yes he does but I think the other mythics are shadowed by how much he is and I think that's R&Ds fault :p
Suggestions?
Coffee vampire from reading your posts I don't think u understand that rarity effects the availability of a card. We are not talking about color symbols here and if snapcaster had a black symbol making him common there's no way I would see him being worth more than 2 bucks he would be readily available to anyone.
They will never make everyone happy. They need to put each kind of card for each rarity. You need useful ok and not that great on each rarity. It's hard enough for a common deck to win vs a mythic rare deck. That's why I stay away from tournements except sealed ones. This is a hobby where I'm gonna spend some money but not enough to compete with the big spenders.
Quote from: Rass on February 20, 2012, 06:23:27 PM
They will never make everyone happy. They need to put each kind of card for each rarity. You need useful ok and not that great on each rarity. It's hard enough for a common deck to win vs a mythic rare deck. That's why I stay away from tournements except sealed ones. This is a hobby where I'm gonna spend some money but not enough to compete with the big spenders.
Very well put. Agreed.
Quote from: Rass on February 20, 2012, 06:23:27 PM
They will never make everyone happy. They need to put each kind of card for each rarity. You need useful ok and not that great on each rarity. It's hard enough for a common deck to win vs a mythic rare deck. That's why I stay away from tournements except sealed ones. This is a hobby where I'm gonna spend some money but not enough to compete with the big spenders.
This is my point exactly. And I feel the same way about tournaments but even then pulling sorin in DA will probably guarantee you made your 'money' back and also a higher chance of winning.
Also a way to improve this is to remove mythic rares all together I don't see the point of having every planeswalker that is new being sold at £30-45 even when it hasn't been released and play tested. I'm more angry that mythics are harder to get, yes i find that ok. It's just when I want another mythic or even a rare I have to trade several mythics for. I personally beileve that each mythic is or should be equally as good as each other so we don't get £80 jace the mind sculptor again. But obviously planeswalkers will obviously be more expensive because of the utility.
The people that make the cards (WotC) don't set the prices (us). We players determine the prices based on interest. So you are basically asking wizards to stop making some cards more awesome than others. Every rare printed should be a {Snapcaster Mage}. Think is, of every card is at the same level (which is a challenge to itself) then they are either all overpowered, leading to a runaway power spiral, or they are all meh.
I think they do miss the mark once in a while with mythics, but overall I agree with them.
I think that rarity status is pretty important. It could be used to know how likely you are to get the card, obviously :p and They mean to make the mythics and rares better than the rest, but I don't think it's a problem if an uncommon or even a common ends up being really good. I think it's just fair, since the likelihood of getting a mythic in a booster is rather low. Maybe they do it on purpose to make it fair,who knows. But I think it's an important part of the game.
If each card was equil to get with no difference then imagine how much a booster pack would be $10-20 a pack? Or maybe WotC would be out of business because they cannot sell enough packs and have too little of a profit margin to make it worth while to them.
Think about how many kids buy booster pack by pack just to get that one mythic rare. To just say I have it.
Again, I do agree with you that it is irritating how they set up the rarity, but they need to do something to make their product to have this "I must have" feeling.
Quote from: DevilGin on February 21, 2012, 03:27:16 AM
Quote from: Rass on February 20, 2012, 06:23:27 PM
They will never make everyone happy. They need to put each kind of card for each rarity. You need useful ok and not that great on each rarity. It's hard enough for a common deck to win vs a mythic rare deck. That's why I stay away from tournements except sealed ones. This is a hobby where I'm gonna spend some money but not enough to compete with the big spenders.
This is my point exactly. And I feel the same way about tournaments but even then pulling sorin in DA will probably guarantee you made your 'money' back and also a higher chance of winning.
Also a way to improve this is to remove mythic rares all together I don't see the point of having every planeswalker that is new being sold at £30-45 even when it hasn't been released and play tested. I'm more angry that mythics are harder to get, yes i find that ok. It's just when I want another mythic or even a rare I have to trade several mythics for. I personally beileve that each mythic is or should be equally as good as each other so we don't get £80 jace the mind sculptor again. But obviously planeswalkers will obviously be more expensive because of the utility.
If mythic rares weren't printed, then all rares would be more expensive. Wizard's goal is to make playable cards in all rarities.
Common: {Tragic Slip}, {Delver of Secrets}
Uncommon: {Dismember}, {Gut Shot}, {Drogskol Captain}
Rare: {Snapcaster Mage}
Mythic: {Sorin, Lord of Innistrad}, {Huntmaster of the Fells}
What really gets me is pulling mythics that aren't really playable. There are always going to be mythics that are more playable than others, but sometimes I really scratch my head at what R&D was thinking. For example, {drogskol reaver} and {beguiled of wills} are over costed and under powered, respectively. Obviously this was done to balance out their awesome abilities, but why couldn't they have met on some sort of middle ground? Blah.
They are not bad in stalemate games
Quote from: Rass on February 21, 2012, 09:42:28 PM
They are not bad in stalemate games
Stalemate games?
Quote from: Saab93 on February 21, 2012, 09:39:50 PM
What really gets me is pulling mythics that aren't really playable. There are always going to be mythics that are more playable than others, but sometimes I really scratch my head at what R&D was thinking. For example, {drogskol reaver} and {beguiled of wills} are over costed and under powered, respectively. Obviously this was done to balance out their awesome abilities, but why couldn't they have met on some sort of middle ground? Blah.
Drogskol Reaver is fun for Timmies as a roundoff to their casual spirit decks. Though I admit that the art is horrible.
Beguiler of Wills is the ultimate griefer card.
Quote from: Saab93 on February 21, 2012, 09:52:55 PM
Quote from: Rass on February 21, 2012, 09:42:28 PM
They are not bad in stalemate games
Stalemate games?
Long drawn out games where it seemed no one has an advantage