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Magic (The Gathering) => Discussion => Topic started by: Piotr on April 01, 2013, 12:07:04 PM

Title: Zombies could be white
Post by: Piotr on April 01, 2013, 12:07:04 PM
Logically, zombies are dead, right? They have no will of their own, they just follow orders. It doesn't make sense for them to be black as they have no sense of good or bad, and black is obviously about bad. White is about good but also about order, and because zombies just follow orders I think they should be white.
Title: Re: Zombies could be white
Post by: Birdbrain on April 01, 2013, 12:29:17 PM
No. This doesn't make any sense at all. Mark Rosewater said white is not about good and black is not about bad. White is about order, community and peace. White gives up the needs of the individual for the needs of the group. Black is about self indulgence, zombies indulge themselves on your brains. Zombies do not fit mechanically in white at all
Title: Re: Zombies could be white
Post by: Mikefrompluto on April 01, 2013, 12:31:42 PM
Eh I agree with Piotr on this. I always thought it would make more sense if zombies were white.
Title: Re: Zombies could be white
Post by: Birdbrain on April 01, 2013, 12:37:07 PM
White doesnt take the long dead and manipulate them for there own purposes. That's blacks area
Title: Re: Zombies could be white
Post by: Piotr on April 01, 2013, 12:38:08 PM
Quote from: Birdbrain on April 01, 2013, 12:29:17 PM
White is about order, community and peace.

Well if you think about it, zombies come from graveyard communities and rest in peace when not ordered around. Perfect fit for white.
Title: Re: Zombies could be white
Post by: Birdbrain on April 01, 2013, 12:40:19 PM
Quote from: Drewy3 on April 01, 2013, 12:38:08 PM
Quote from: Birdbrain on April 01, 2013, 12:29:17 PM
White is about order, community and peace.

Well if you think about it, zombies come from graveyard communities and rest in peace when not ordered around. Perfect fit for white.
though you said zombies have no free will, and do what there told. Which is just the kind of soldier black likes. For a black Mage to manipulate them to there own will
Title: Re: Zombies could be white
Post by: MuggyWuggy on April 01, 2013, 12:44:31 PM
Quote from: Drewy3 on April 01, 2013, 12:38:08 PM
Quote from: Birdbrain on April 01, 2013, 12:29:17 PM
White is about order, community and peace.

Well if you think about it, zombies come from graveyard communities and rest in peace when not ordered around. Perfect fit for white.

Usually zombies are resting in a rat or bug infested graveyard; sometimes they are in swamps. Nothing peaceful about a worm burrowing thru your abdomen and a rat making a nest from your decaying hair.

Also, zombies (most) can't hold off from hunger crazes. They are pretty much out of control and not disciplined, if white is about order, then these zombies have none.
Title: Re: Zombies could be white
Post by: Piotr on April 01, 2013, 12:46:12 PM
Quote from: Birdbrain on April 01, 2013, 12:40:19 PM
Quote from: Drewy3 on April 01, 2013, 12:38:08 PM
Quote from: Birdbrain on April 01, 2013, 12:29:17 PM
White is about order, community and peace.

Well if you think about it, zombies come from graveyard communities and rest in peace when not ordered around. Perfect fit for white.
though you said zombies have no free will, and do what there told. Which is just the kind of soldier black likes. For a black Mage to manipulate them to there own will

That's why they are about order which is white. Also, black mages could be green.
Title: Re: Zombies could be white
Post by: Birdbrain on April 01, 2013, 12:50:40 PM
In literature (including the movies) zombies infect people and turn them into a zombie. Does this seem like peace or order or community? And I know wht your going to say that there bringing people to there community

But one of the definitions of community is agreements as goals. I don't think a persons goals is to be turned into a zombie. So zombies are not what embodies community
Title: Re: Zombies could be white
Post by: Birdbrain on April 01, 2013, 12:51:47 PM
Black mages couldn't be green because green isn't about unnatural death. Read MaRo's articles
Title: Re: Zombies could be white
Post by: MuggyWuggy on April 01, 2013, 12:53:29 PM
What about faeries. Why are they G BK BL???
Title: Re: Zombies could be white
Post by: Birdbrain on April 01, 2013, 12:54:40 PM
I'm guessing MaRo is appealing to the faeries mischievous nature for black. And I have no idea for blue
Title: Re: Zombies could be white
Post by: Piotr on April 01, 2013, 12:56:33 PM
Quote from: Birdbrain on April 01, 2013, 12:50:40 PM
In literature (including the movies) zombies infect people and turn them into a zombie. Does this seem like peace or order or community? And I know wht your going to say that there bringing people to there community

But one of the definitions of community is agreements as goals. I don't think a persons goals is to be turned into a zombie. So zombies are not what embodies community

Well yes, zombies spread their orderly peace around. Once you get infected by a zombie, you rest in peace for a while, then you become part of the orderly zombie community. How is that not white?

One of the definitions of community is to be like-minded. Zombie being brain dead are obviously like-minded, true or false?
Title: Re: Zombies could be white
Post by: Mikefrompluto on April 01, 2013, 12:57:11 PM
Quote from: Birdbrain on April 01, 2013, 12:50:40 PM
In literature (including the movies) zombies infect people and turn them into a zombie. Does this seem like peace or order or community? And I know wht your going to say that there bringing people to there community

But one of the definitions of community is agreements as goals. I don't think a persons goals is to be turned into a zombie. So zombies are not what embodies community

What about zombie sympathizers? Or {doomed necromancer}?
Title: Re: Zombies could be white
Post by: Millionlittlee on April 01, 2013, 12:59:01 PM
I feel like he is trolling because of April fools day. But that's just me
Title: Re: Zombies could be white
Post by: Mikefrompluto on April 01, 2013, 12:59:42 PM
Quote from: Millionlittlee on April 01, 2013, 12:59:01 PM
I feel like he is trolling because of April fools day. But that's just me

You don't say...
Title: Re: Zombies could be white
Post by: Millionlittlee on April 01, 2013, 01:00:50 PM
I do say. You don't say
Title: Re: Zombies could be white
Post by: Vyse on April 01, 2013, 01:01:48 PM
Zombies are mindless, and as they say ignorance is bliss right? So aren't zombies technically the happiest of all creatures? The most peaceful? Sure they eat unsavory things but so do crows and we've been through that arguement. They also form very tight knit groups as mentioned. I also see many white resurrection cards too, like  {Necromancer's Covenant}  {Sun Titan}  {Marshal's Anthem}  {Unburial Rites} and  {Defy Death}. Zombies could def be white in my eyes
Title: Re: Zombies could be white
Post by: Moneekahh on April 01, 2013, 01:02:05 PM
Quote from: Millionlittlee on April 01, 2013, 12:59:01 PM
I feel like he is trolling because of April fools day. But that's just me

I think Drewy3 makes some very valid points. It's important to think about what color certain creature types COULD have been. So important.
Title: Re: Zombies could be white
Post by: Birdbrain on April 01, 2013, 01:04:20 PM
Quote from: Drewy3 on April 01, 2013, 12:56:33 PM
Quote from: Birdbrain on April 01, 2013, 12:50:40 PM
In literature (including the movies) zombies infect people and turn them into a zombie. Does this seem like peace or order or community? And I know wht your going to say that there bringing people to there community

But one of the definitions of community is agreements as goals. I don't think a persons goals is to be turned into a zombie. So zombies are not what embodies community

Well yes, zombies spread their orderly peace around. Once you get infected by a zombie, you rest in peace for a while, then you become part of the orderly zombie community. How is that not white?

One of the definitions of community is to be like-minded. Zombie being brain dead are obviously like-minded, true or false?
like-minded doesnt mean everyone thinking the same thing. I garuntee you only one thought is on a zombies mind "brains!" A community, takes many different ideas, as well as many similar ideas, and uses them to work towards a common goal

Zombies may be numerous in bodies, but there only one thought does not feel like community

I can see them as red though
Title: Re: Zombies could be white
Post by: Piotr on April 01, 2013, 01:05:39 PM
Quote from: bravado883 on April 01, 2013, 01:01:26 PM
Zombies create chaos.

Not at all, they bring the uniformity and this is the ultimate type of order. Zombies win, everyone is the same, part of the same community. Very white if you ask me.
Title: Re: Zombies could be white
Post by: Birdbrain on April 01, 2013, 01:10:14 PM
Quote from: Drewy3 on April 01, 2013, 01:05:39 PM
Quote from: bravado883 on April 01, 2013, 01:01:26 PM
Zombies create chaos.

Not at all, they bring the uniformity and this is the ultimate type of order. Zombies win, everyone is the same, part of the same community. Very white if you ask me.
you do make some interesting points Piotr. And your pushing mind in new directions just to defend my point. And for that you get +1

Anyway, isn't it better for order to be had at the free will of those that are part of it? Black imposes on free will, zombies impose on free will. I know white makes laws, but it doesn't force someone to obey them. It punishes when someone breaks them
Title: Re: Zombies could be white
Post by: MisterJH on April 01, 2013, 01:16:39 PM
Zombies could also be green, because they are the rebirth of humans and elves, which are species in nature, which is green o.o
Title: Re: Zombies could be white
Post by: Piotr on April 01, 2013, 01:16:48 PM
Quote from: Birdbrain on April 01, 2013, 01:10:14 PM
I know white makes laws, but it doesn't force someone to obey them.

I need to disagree with this, most of the laws that I know of, specifically use force in prevention of law breaking. In fact, I believe iMtG Law to be quite unique in that aspect.
Title: Re: Zombies could be white
Post by: Birdbrain on April 01, 2013, 01:23:59 PM
Quote from: MisterJH on April 01, 2013, 01:16:39 PM
Zombies could also be green, because they are the rebirth of humans and elves, which are species in nature, which is green o.o
zombies can't be green because green does not use death unnaturally

Quote from: Drewy3 on April 01, 2013, 01:16:48 PM
Quote from: Birdbrain on April 01, 2013, 01:10:14 PM
I know white makes laws, but it doesn't force someone to obey them.

I .covet. to disagree with this, most of the laws that I know of, specifically use force in prevention of law breaking. In fact, I believe iMtG Law to be quite unique in that aspect.
your probably trying to trap me Into using your argument that zombies are peaceful or something like that. The truth of the matter is though, that all the colors use brutality in some way shape or fashion. Plus, zombies are pretty brutal

Plus, the brutality usually comes after te law is broken
Title: Re: Zombies could be white
Post by: Piotr on April 01, 2013, 01:26:32 PM
Quote from: Birdbrain on April 01, 2013, 01:23:59 PM
zombies can't be green because green does not use death unnaturally

Oh but it does. The nature is all about eat or be eaten, nature causes death as one of its main functions. Like, a cat eats a mouse and the mouse is quite dead in the process.
Title: Re: Zombies could be white
Post by: MisterJH on April 01, 2013, 01:27:38 PM
So i think its settled that zombies are most certainly not black and it was a mistake
Title: Re: Zombies could be white
Post by: Birdbrain on April 01, 2013, 01:30:17 PM
Quote from: Drewy3 on April 01, 2013, 01:26:32 PM
Quote from: Birdbrain on April 01, 2013, 01:23:59 PM
zombies can't be green because green does not use death unnaturally

Oh but it does. The nature is all about eat or be eaten, nature causes death as one of its main functions. Like, a cat eats a mouse and the mouse is quite dead in the process.
im not arguing that green doesn't kill. Yes green does kill to eat. According to Mark Rosewater, green doesn't understand unnatural death outside of the natural cycle.
Title: Re: Zombies could be white
Post by: The1337Magician on April 01, 2013, 01:37:19 PM
Quote from: Birdbrain on April 01, 2013, 01:23:59 PM
Quote from: MisterJH on April 01, 2013, 01:16:39 PM
Zombies could also be green, because they are the rebirth of humans and elves, which are species in nature, which is green o.o
Zombies can't be green because green does not use death unnaturally
How do you explain  {Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord} and the rest of the GB Zombies.
Title: Re: Zombies could be white
Post by: Piotr on April 01, 2013, 01:40:32 PM
Quote from: Birdbrain on April 01, 2013, 01:30:17 PM
Quote from: Drewy3 on April 01, 2013, 01:26:32 PM
Quote from: Birdbrain on April 01, 2013, 01:23:59 PM
zombies can't be green because green does not use death unnaturally

Oh but it does. The nature is all about eat or be eaten, nature causes death as one of its main functions. Like, a cat eats a mouse and the mouse is quite dead in the process.
im not arguing that green doesn't kill. Yes green does kill to eat. According to Mark Rosewater, green doesn't understand unnatural death outside of the natural cycle.

Well having your brains eaten out will quite naturally cause a death of yours. I don't know who Mark is, but Charles Darwin once famously said, "To kill an error is as good a service as, and sometimes even better than, the establishing of a new truth or fact."
Title: Re: Zombies could be white
Post by: Birdbrain on April 01, 2013, 01:40:32 PM
Quote from: The1337Magician on April 01, 2013, 01:37:19 PM
Quote from: Birdbrain on April 01, 2013, 01:23:59 PM
Quote from: MisterJH on April 01, 2013, 01:16:39 PM
Zombies could also be green, because they are the rebirth of humans and elves, which are species in nature, which is green o.o
Zombies can't be green because green does not use death unnaturally
How do you explain  {Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord} and the rest of the GB Zombies.
thats green black. Not pure green
Title: Re: Zombies could be white
Post by: Birdbrain on April 01, 2013, 01:41:18 PM
Quote from: Drewy3 on April 01, 2013, 01:40:32 PM
Quote from: Birdbrain on April 01, 2013, 01:30:17 PM
Quote from: Drewy3 on April 01, 2013, 01:26:32 PM
Quote from: Birdbrain on April 01, 2013, 01:23:59 PM
zombies can't be green because green does not use death unnaturally

Oh but it does. The nature is all about eat or be eaten, nature causes death as one of its main functions. Like, a cat eats a mouse and the mouse is quite dead in the process.
im not arguing that green doesn't kill. Yes green does kill to eat. According to Mark Rosewater, green doesn't understand unnatural death outside of the natural cycle.

Well having your brains eaten out will quite naturally cause a death of yours. I don't know who Mark is, but Charles Darwin once famously said, "To kill an error is as good a service as, and sometimes even better than, the establishing of a new truth or fact."
Mark Rosewater is the head designer of Magic the gathering
Title: Re: Zombies could be white
Post by: Piotr on April 01, 2013, 01:47:25 PM
Quote from: Birdbrain on April 01, 2013, 01:41:18 PM
Mark Rosewater is the head designer of .sufficiently advanced technology. the gathering

Ah, this one. He was fired last week for stealing office supplies.
Title: Re: Zombies could be white
Post by: Birdbrain on April 01, 2013, 01:51:59 PM
How do you explain then his most recent article on the mtg website? Dated today?
Title: Re: Zombies could be white
Post by: Piotr on April 01, 2013, 03:12:45 PM
He wrote it 2 weeks ago.
Title: Re: Zombies could be white
Post by: Birdbrain on April 01, 2013, 04:42:54 PM
I've been thinking on this. Green is about nature. Zombies take what is natural and change it. Whether or not golgari have green zombies or not is almost irrelevant. What I'm saying is, pure green zombies cannot exist
Title: Re: Zombies could be white
Post by: Greg54js on April 01, 2013, 04:47:36 PM
Drewy how many times have you been called piotr since you updated your gravitar?
Title: Re: Zombies could be white
Post by: Bozo_Law on April 01, 2013, 04:48:18 PM
Quote from: Greg54js on April 01, 2013, 04:47:36 PM
Drewy how many times have you been called piotr since you updated your gravitar?

It is Piotr, just an April Fools joke.
Title: Re: Zombies could be white
Post by: Greg54js on April 01, 2013, 04:50:13 PM
Quote from: Bozo_Law on April 01, 2013, 04:48:18 PM
Quote from: Greg54js on April 01, 2013, 04:47:36 PM
Drewy how many times have you been called piotr since you updated your gravitar?

It is Piotr, just an April Fools joke.
wow how did I miss that....
Title: Re: Zombies could be white
Post by: Umbra on April 01, 2013, 04:52:52 PM
White is not good, do not confuse white with good, white is dogmatic but orderly, black is not bad, black is selfish but ambitious. No color is better than the other(except blue, most banned cards for being op). Some people like green, some people like red. It all depends on how you want to play the game.
Title: Re: Zombies could be white
Post by: The1337Magician on April 01, 2013, 05:14:23 PM
Quote from: bravado883 on April 01, 2013, 04:48:30 PM
We have zombies in every other color besides white yeah?  I mean, dual color zombies that is?  I actually do find this interesting because even though I don't agree that zombies should be white instead of black, I think it conspicuous that no BW zombies have been printed.  As far as I know at least.  I don't know...I just feel that if we could have pure white phyrexians we can at least have BW zombies.
There are 3 BW Zombies:
{Putrid Warrior}
{Stillmoon Cavalier}
{Tidehollow Sculler}
Title: Re: Zombies could be white
Post by: adventus on April 01, 2013, 05:33:51 PM
Wizards should just make a new color for zombies.  I say PINK...the color of fresh braaaaains...
Title: Re: Zombies could be white
Post by: prayos on April 01, 2013, 05:55:04 PM
The White Walkers are zombies...
Title: Re: Zombies could be white
Post by: Birdbrain on April 01, 2013, 06:08:09 PM
Quote from: The1337Magician on April 01, 2013, 05:14:23 PM
Quote from: bravado883 on April 01, 2013, 04:48:30 PM
We have zombies in every other color besides white yeah?  I mean, dual color zombies that is?  I actually do find this interesting because even though I don't agree that zombies should be white instead of black, I think it conspicuous that no BW zombies have been printed.  As far as I know at least.  I don't know...I just feel that if we could have pure white phyrexians we can at least have BW zombies.
There are 3 BW Zombies:
{Putrid Warrior}
{Stillmoon Cavalier}
{Tidehollow Sculler}
guess your right Piotr. Zombies could be white. Just not pure white. And two of these are working for an army. Though I doubt its infecting an army
Title: Re: Zombies could be white
Post by: Bozo_Law on April 01, 2013, 06:15:09 PM
Quote from: Birdbrain on April 01, 2013, 06:08:09 PM
Quote from: The1337Magician on April 01, 2013, 05:14:23 PM
Quote from: bravado883 on April 01, 2013, 04:48:30 PM
We have zombies in every other color besides white yeah?  I mean, dual color zombies that is?  I actually do find this interesting because even though I don't agree that zombies should be white instead of black, I think it conspicuous that no BW zombies have been printed.  As far as I know at least.  I don't know...I just feel that if we could have pure white phyrexians we can at least have BW zombies.
There are 3 BW Zombies:
{Putrid Warrior}
{Stillmoon Cavalier}
{Tidehollow Sculler}
guess your right Piotr. Zombies could be white. Just not pure white. And two of these are working for an army. Though I doubt its infecting an army

Good find Bravado.
Title: Re: Zombies could be white
Post by: Birdbrain on April 01, 2013, 06:22:37 PM
Quote from: BlackJester1 on April 01, 2013, 06:15:09 PM
Quote from: Birdbrain on April 01, 2013, 06:08:09 PM
Quote from: The1337Magician on April 01, 2013, 05:14:23 PM
Quote from: bravado883 on April 01, 2013, 04:48:30 PM
We have zombies in every other color besides white yeah?  I mean, dual color zombies that is?  I actually do find this interesting because even though I don't agree that zombies should be white instead of black, I think it conspicuous that no BW zombies have been printed.  As far as I know at least.  I don't know...I just feel that if we could have pure white phyrexians we can at least have BW zombies.
There are 3 BW Zombies:
{Putrid Warrior}
{Stillmoon Cavalier}
{Tidehollow Sculler}
guess your right Piotr. Zombies could be white. Just not pure white. And two of these are working for an army. Though I doubt its infecting an army

Good find Bravado.
blackjester1? Another prank?
Title: Re: Zombies could be white
Post by: Umbra on April 02, 2013, 03:48:58 PM
Quote from: bravado883 on April 02, 2013, 01:08:55 PM
Quote from: The1337Magician on April 01, 2013, 05:14:23 PM
There are 3 BW Zombies:
{Putrid Warrior}
{Stillmoon Cavalier}
{Tidehollow Sculler}
Derp, shoulda checked before posting :P Thanks for the correction. I even knew about {Tidehollow Sculler} but for some reason I had turned it into a Thrull in my head. An artifact zombie no less!

I was thinking more of mono white... They're white because of their abilities in my opinion
Title: Re: Zombies could be white
Post by: Birdbrain on April 03, 2013, 08:00:46 AM
I think Piotr just wants to build a esper zombie deck