iMtG Server: Gathering

Magic (The Gathering) => Rules => Topic started by: prayos on March 06, 2013, 07:45:14 PM

Title: Lazav and Soulbond
Post by: prayos on March 06, 2013, 07:45:14 PM
Okay, so Lazav becomes a copy of a card put into the graveyard.  So, {Nearheath Pilgrim} is put into the graveyard.  Lazav becomes the Pilgrim.  I play a creature, soulbonding it.  Another creature enters opponents graveyard, say, {Silverblade Paladin}.  Lazav becomes a Paladin.  The wording on soulbond says that they stay bonded as long as you control the card, not as long as it has the ability.  So, my question is, does my Lazav have both lifelink and double-strike?  If not lifelink, is he still bonded and have double-strike?
Title: Re: Lazav and Soulbond
Post by: scarsabrex on March 06, 2013, 07:47:45 PM
No lifelink but bonded and double strike
Title: Re: Lazav and Soulbond
Post by: Teysa karlov on March 06, 2013, 08:04:44 PM
Why no lifelink? Lazav when it copy's a ability that mentions the name of the card copied, it changes the name to Lazav,

So the ability will read then Lazav is soul bond to a creature Lazav and soul bond creature gain lifelink
Title: Re: Lazav and Soulbond
Post by: adventus on March 06, 2013, 08:10:43 PM
{Lazav, Dimir Mastermind}
Title: Re: Lazav and Soulbond
Post by: izik99 on March 06, 2013, 08:11:33 PM
Is says to an unpaired creature- no double pairing unless its at the same time.
Title: Re: Lazav and Soulbond
Post by: Teysa karlov on March 06, 2013, 08:12:02 PM
Quote from: Gorzo on March 05, 2013, 01:36:52 PM
Well, here's the thing. When a card says its own name like in {Angel of Serenity}s ability text, it means "this card." So {Lazav, Dimir Mastermind} would indeed copy that ability, and the text would change to "When Lazav enters the battlefield..." However, Lazav is not re-entering the battlefield. He's already on it, just changing clothes. So the ability will not trigger.

RESOLVED
Title: Re: Lazav and Soulbond
Post by: scarsabrex on March 06, 2013, 08:41:15 PM
No lifelink because Lazav is a copy of the paladin not the pilgrim anymore.
Title: Re: Lazav and Soulbond
Post by: Teysa karlov on March 06, 2013, 08:49:02 PM
Only if you chooses to copy the new creature
Title: Re: Lazav and Soulbond
Post by: scarsabrex on March 06, 2013, 09:00:16 PM
Which is what the op said he did.
Title: Re: Lazav and Soulbond
Post by: Teysa karlov on March 06, 2013, 09:06:24 PM
Oh yeah, miss read it slightly
Title: Re: Lazav and Soulbond
Post by: prayos on March 06, 2013, 09:42:08 PM
Quote from: scarsabrex on March 06, 2013, 08:41:15 PM
No lifelink because Lazav is a copy of the paladin not the pilgrim anymore.

Right, but soulbond rules state:

702.93e A paired creature becomes unpaired if any of the following occur: another player gains control of it or the creature it's paired with; it or the creature it's paired with stops being a creature; or it or the creature it's paired with leaves the battlefield.

And Lazav becomes the creature, it never leaves the battlefield.  So, if I then copy a Silverblade Paladin, if it's bonded to something, they should both have lifelink and double-strike.
Title: Re: Lazav and Soulbond
Post by: scarsabrex on March 06, 2013, 09:51:10 PM
It doesn't matter the pilgrim's lifelink effect is a static ability. Once Lazav copies the paladin it will no longer have that static ability.
Title: Re: Lazav and Soulbond
Post by: Keyeto on March 06, 2013, 09:51:37 PM
Quote from: prayos on March 06, 2013, 09:42:08 PM
Quote from: scarsabrex on March 06, 2013, 08:41:15 PM
No lifelink because Lazav is a copy of the paladin not the pilgrim anymore.

Right, but soulbond rules state:

702.93e A paired creature becomes unpaired if any of the following occur: another player gains control of it or the creature it's paired with; it or the creature it's paired with stops being a creature; or it or the creature it's paired with leaves the battlefield.

And Lazav becomes the creature, it never leaves the battlefield.  So, if I then copy a Silverblade Paladin, if it's bonded to something, they should both have lifelink and double-strike.

And if Lazav is now a Paladin, why would he have the static effect of the Pilgrim still? He's now a Paladin with its soulbond effect.
Title: Re: Lazav and Soulbond
Post by: prayos on March 06, 2013, 09:58:25 PM
Quote from: Keyeto on March 06, 2013, 09:51:37 PM
Quote from: prayos on March 06, 2013, 09:42:08 PM
Quote from: scarsabrex on March 06, 2013, 08:41:15 PM
No lifelink because Lazav is a copy of the paladin not the pilgrim anymore.

Right, but soulbond rules state:

702.93e A paired creature becomes unpaired if any of the following occur: another player gains control of it or the creature it's paired with; it or the creature it's paired with stops being a creature; or it or the creature it's paired with leaves the battlefield.

And Lazav becomes the creature, it never leaves the battlefield.  So, if I then copy a Silverblade Paladin, if it's bonded to something, they should both have lifelink and double-strike.

And if Lazav is now a Paladin, why would he have the static effect of the Pilgrim still? He's now a Paladin with its soulbond effect.

Wasn't thinking of static abilities. :(  Okay, so say my Lazav is a copy of a Pilgrim.  I play a creature and bond, and then copy a Paladin.  So, they are still bonded and have double strike?
Title: Re: Lazav and Soulbond
Post by: scarsabrex on March 06, 2013, 10:00:30 PM
Quote from: scarsabrex on March 06, 2013, 07:47:45 PM
No lifelink but bonded and double strike

Yep
Title: Re: Lazav and Soulbond
Post by: Keyeto on March 07, 2013, 10:20:11 AM
Quote from: bravado883 on March 07, 2013, 10:01:08 AM
Probably a silly question but...since Lazav is becoming a new card and not re-entering, why would he remain bonded? Wouldn't he actually be getting a new instance of soulbond, and if so, wouldn't another creature have to ETB to trigger the ability?
Well, here's the thing. Being paired with the creature stays until you no longer have control of both cards. Lazav remains in the field the whole time, so he remains bonded with the creature. What changes, is the fact that his soulbond ability is different. The bond isn't broken, since he doesn't leave the battlefield or change control, the bond just does something different now.
Title: Re: Lazav and Soulbond
Post by: scarsabrex on March 07, 2013, 10:41:37 AM
Also. Bonding isn't broken if the soul bond effect is lost to something like {turn to frog}