http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=7893671&postcount=11
'I believe [iMtG and other toolboxes] should be allowed to use card images and ship databases containing card rules in our mobile and computer apps, as long as we do not interfere with the WotC core business which is the game. Any app which is a game of Magic should be rightfully killed. Not if it's a reference or utility helping the players to play their game.'
They shut it down because of its ability to play the game, although no different really than MWS.
They are foolish though as it helps people to playtest different cards before going out and buying them. I have spent more money on Magic because of Cockatrice letting me see what I want to do. Before I didnt buy cards like I do now because I didnt want to waste money if I didnt like the cards or the deck. With Cockatrice I could figure out what I wanted and tune it a bit, then buy cards.
I mean, anyone playing cockatrice knows it wasn't the right thing to do...it looks like Magic Online without rules enforcement. It is basically copyright infringement. Wizards has a product that they create, promote and sell, an entity they own. For someone to take their hard work and say "it's free for educational purposes" is fraud.
Using Cockatrice to play MTG is obviously breaking the iMtG Law. Logic: WotC wouldn't want electronic copies of their cards to be used to play MTG.
You can argue who owns electronic copies of your own cards, though. If you can prove that it is you rather than WotC, then ok, but I don't see that proof.
EDIT: My updated stance of the topic: http://ultimatelaw.org/examples/patents.html
Quote from: Dudecore on March 02, 2013, 10:53:37 PM
I mean, anyone playing cockatrice knows it wasn't the right thing to do...it looks like Magic Online without rules enforcement. It is basically copyright infringement. Wizards has a product that they create, promote and sell, an entity they own. For someone to take their hard work and say "it's free for educational purposes" is fraud.
I see it no different than playing with proxies in person to see if you like how the deck would play before spending the money. On cockatrice you just had more people to try with then just a buddy or two.
Like I said, spent more money on paper magic bc of testing on cockatrice. I wouldn't have spent if I couldn't test.
Quote from: NyghtHawk on March 03, 2013, 01:43:48 PM
Quote from: Dudecore on March 02, 2013, 10:53:37 PM
I mean, anyone playing cockatrice knows it wasn't the right thing to do...it looks like Magic Online without rules enforcement. It is basically copyright infringement. Wizards has a product that they create, promote and sell, an entity they own. For someone to take their hard work and say "it's free for educational purposes" is fraud.
I see it no different than playing with proxies in person to see if you like how the deck would play before spending the money.
This is specifically forbidden by WotC and US copyright law. I'm pretty good at copyright law since WotC vs. Community (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=389490) ;)
Not saying I dont understand what they're doing, just saying that its actually helpful to them for many or the majority of people who test decks out there. They want us to play MTGO exclusively because they own it but unfortunately its just like paper Magic so you cant try things there before you go ahead and purchase them. If that was an option, nobody would find the need to play cockatrice.
Wizards business model unfortunately doesn't provide support for players to test new things. They'd prefer you opened boosters or MODO.
You can always proxy. Print out sheets of paper and put them infront of basic lands in sleeves.
Quote from: NyghtHawk on March 03, 2013, 07:10:23 PM
Not saying I dont understand what they're doing, just saying that its actually helpful to them for many or the majority of people who test decks out there. They want us to play MTGO exclusively because they own it but unfortunately its just like paper Magic so you cant try things there before you go ahead and purchase them. If that was an option, nobody would find the need to play cockatrice.
They let you download dotp for free on ps3 and Xbox to check it out.
Quote from: Dudecore on March 03, 2013, 07:18:14 PM
Wizards business model unfortunately doesn't provide support for players to test new things. They'd prefer you opened boosters or MODO.
You can always proxy. Print out sheets of paper and put them infront of basic lands in sleeves.
Of course that's their model but the majority of people don't just open new packs or buy cards they are thinking about to build specific decks, especially pertaining to modern and legacy, without trying things first. A lot of people try things first like proxying but cockatrice gives you a much broader field for testing.
Anyway, I think we all get why they do it but doesn't make us have to agree that it's completely in their interest.
I do wish they had a version of Magic Online with all of the cards unlocked. But Wizards is a business.
I'd probably even pay a subscription fee for all the cards unlocked, but you could only play unranked, private games. I think they'd get plenty of subs.
I don't play MTGO anymore, and I'm trading away all of my paper - because I'm going EDH and building a cube. Still being able to play standard for hundreds of less dollars sounds intriguing. That is why it's unlikely to happen.
Quote from: NyghtHawk on March 03, 2013, 08:21:08 PM
I think we all get why they do it but doesn't make us have to agree that it's completely in their interest.
True, if you look at business model of iMtG you can notice how different my approach is from Hasbro's ;)
Still, we have to honour their choices.
On the money making side of things, I'm pretty sure wizards doesn't get a cut when you go and buy singles from stores, as its a secondary market. Just look at the video game industry and their opposition to the used game market to understand where I'm coming from.
So in buying singles after play testing with proxies, or on line doesn't help them. They get money from boosters.
As to shutting down cockatrice, if it didn't use card images, just the name of the card and text about what it does, would it still be legal.
End ramble.
Whether I'm on cockatrice or not, if I'm building a deck and need specific cards I'm not going to buy packs regardless. I'm buying singles.
In another regard, I also draft every week for fun and to add a few cards to the collection.
WotC couldn't sell anywhere near what they are selling if not for the secondary market.
Value of things is what people are willing to pay for them, if people couldn't easily sell the contents of boosters they wouldn't buy as much of them.
Quote from: Imdowd80 on March 04, 2013, 09:53:08 PM
As to shutting down cockatrice, if it didn't use card images, just the name of the card and text about what it does, would it still be legal.
I was wondering that myself.
Can't the mechanics of a game be copy written? Ie "tap"
No, the copyright law specifically forbids that for game rules.
WotC have a patent for tap.
But not for floop. Theres nothing saying you cant floop the pig.
Define 'floop the pig'.
Quote from: Piotr on March 12, 2013, 09:31:01 AM
Define 'floop the pig'.
Floop the Pig (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXMSeyj4bAY)
Quote from: prayos on March 12, 2013, 12:18:52 PM
Quote from: Piotr on March 12, 2013, 09:31:01 AM
Define 'floop the pig'.
Floop the Pig (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXMSeyj4bAY)
Just proof that cornfields stink... Thank you for that.
Quote from: MisterJH on March 12, 2013, 11:41:50 PM
Quote from: prayos on March 12, 2013, 12:18:52 PM
Quote from: Piotr on March 12, 2013, 09:31:01 AM
Define 'floop the pig'.
Floop the Pig (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXMSeyj4bAY)
Just proof that cornfields stink... Thank you for that.
I love that episode, if mtg had a board like that it would be so much more fun. Oh and mtg players watching that were all going, lets see a wrath ability would work for jake, but what if Finn was holding the ancient scholar back for a reanimate ability! Then jake would have to make sure the ancient scholar was gone, but what if he studies the invincibility ability!!! Yup everyone hates going up against reanimation/control decks
Quote from: Piotr on March 03, 2013, 11:19:46 AM
Using Cockatrice to play MTG is obviously breaking the iMtG Law. Logic: WotC wouldn't want electronic copies of their cards to be used to play MTG.
You can argue who owns electronic copies of your own cards, though. If you can prove that it is you rather than WotC, then ok, but I don't see that proof.
I think making the rules is an art similar to art of painting a thing or singing a song or explaining e=mc2 or having ideas.
I see it logical that you cannot force people to not have specific ideas, as this is obviously not something they would want to be done to them. I cannot see a logical boundary of idea complexity where this wouldn't be true (I don't think this is clear but if needed I will elaborate). This would make electronic copies of someone's idea a legal thing under iMtG Law, true or false?
Technically you can still go on a cockatrice server, I was talking to BlackJester yesterday on it. I think it's called play.woogerworks.com
Technically you can cheat me out of 70% of $9.99 too :P
Are there other alternate servers besides woogerworks? Woogerworks is down for me at the moment
They could make a magic online like game and call it satire. Just kidding, seriously though, I can see why wizards took it down. Maybe they could make magic online free to play, but have packs you could buy, or something like that. And you could earn points to buy packs in the game. Not just by grinding, but a number of different ways. Chance, winning, logging on...oh! I know. They could earn this currency by redeeming a code printed on the back of magic packs. Then it would be free to play, and wizards would make more money
Quote from: Birdbrain on April 05, 2013, 07:58:47 AM
They could make a magic online like game and call it satire. Just kidding, seriously though, I can see why wizards took it down. Maybe they could make magic online free to play, but have packs you could buy, or something like that. And you could earn points to buy packs in the game. Not just by grinding, but a number of different ways. Chance, winning, logging on...oh! I know. They could earn this currency by redeeming a code printed on the back of magic packs. Then it would be free to play, and wizards would make more money
I honestly don't think that's a bad idea, I'd save all my packs for mtgo points
Quote from: prayos on March 12, 2013, 12:18:52 PM
Quote from: Piotr on March 12, 2013, 09:31:01 AM
Define 'floop the pig'.
Floop the Pig (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXMSeyj4bAY)
You are a funny guy! I shall play a floop the pig reanimator haha!
The number for {Thragtusk} would be everywhere! Thats why cockatrice is good because you dont have to screw around with a code to get a card, its already there in a database ready to be searched but having a code for them would make it an interesting collecting experience.
If you downloaded
Cockatrice before it
Was "elegall" you can still play solitar on local mode and someone made a new server
Quote from: Birdbrain on April 05, 2013, 07:58:47 AM
They could make a magic online like game and call it satire. Just kidding, seriously though, I can see why wizards took it down. Maybe they could make magic online free to play, but have packs you could buy, or something like that. And you could earn points to buy packs in the game. Not just by grinding, but a number of different ways. Chance, winning, logging on...oh! I know. They could earn this currency by redeeming a code printed on the back of magic packs. Then it would be free to play, and wizards would make more money
Check the App Store. Card game that is almost identical to magic. And 100% free to play but has the real cards too if you want to buy and even online purchases if you so desire. It's called Shadow Era and it's quite a bit of fun. I know it's not magic but i find it just as entertaining.
FYI there is a new host for Cockatrice, so you can go onto your current client and use the new host.
I think it's called Weebster or weebles or something. And it works fine online.
Quote from: Ertai on November 05, 2013, 10:43:35 PM
FYI there is a new host for Cockatrice, so you can go onto your current client and use the new host.
I think it's called Weebster or weebles or something. And it works fine online.
.weebly?
Woogerworks
Is there a way to download the client now? I want to use it I've heard good things
Copyright and patent law are hard. This coming from someone who studied them a bit. There are a lot of factors and balancing tests and unclear language.
It seems to me that downloading the art is the same as downloading a song from napster. But the card names probably are not copyright able (short titles, like song or book titles, are not copyright able, and their trademark claims hinge on profit and on clarity in the marketplace of a products origin).
It seems that rules text is public, from gatherer, so collecting rules text is not violative, but there is a much higher bar if you do it for profit vs not for profit.
Bottom line, its fuzzy, and I feel more comfortable when art is excluded. Anyone who says its clear cut either knows of some recent case I haven't read or is oversimplifying.
Quote from: Ieatfood7 on January 30, 2014, 12:10:49 PM
Copyright and patent law are hard. This coming from someone who studied them a bit. There are a lot of factors and balancing tests and unclear language.
... and no logic, these laws are full of internal inconsistencies and contradictions.
http://ultimatelaw.org/examples/patents.html
Cockatrice still works under the new server so i dont see the big deal. I got on two days ago. +1 for the magic community
I'm on there 3-4 times a week
So, let's play guys. PM me some info.
Where do I get everything I need to use the program
Pm me please
Quote from: New2MTG on May 06, 2014, 07:32:04 PM
Where do I get everything I need to use the program
Pm me please
Google ;)
Is cockatrice down right now for everyone else too or is it just me?
Anyone on here playing via Cockatrice?
Using woogerworks server, under name kaylesh, same as here.
Just got cockatrice, name is splicer102
Ran into particale on it last night. Dudes got a nasty deck.