Crows are a very social animal. Also, whenever there is a predator around; they all start ka'ing in unison and swarming the predator. This fits whites defensiveness. And mechanically look like "destroy target attacking creature" which is a very white thing. This also shows whites organization and relying on the group. They can even plan. There are other examples, but I don't want to overwhelm everyone.
Also. When one does, the others in its flock take a moment of silence for it like a funeral. So they definitely care about others. A white behavior
If you don't belive me. Read this
http://www.crowbusters.com/facts.htm
It's a bit down though
You could argue (insert any card) could be (insert any of the five colors). Just saying
Not trying to come across as a Richard.
I'm not saying crows could be in any color though. They don't make since in {R} or {B}. So if your implying I'm just saying this just for the heck, I'm not. Read the evidence I posted under the section of there enemies. You'll see they fit well in white. Is there any evidence suggesting they couldn't be white? Please show it to me, or tell me why you don't think so. Actually there's more than just in the section of there enemies
They work in groups so there not black. And try think things through so there not red
They also mate for life forming monogamous bonds. Which is a white behavior. And they are not reckless, always aware of danger in there surroundings and taking steps to avoid it. When there is a cat around, and there is a fledgling on the ground, the fledgling will remain very still untill the cat goes away. A non-red behavior
Storm Crow is too overpowered to be in any other color. Can you imagine a red Storm Crow? It would ruin Standard.
I am coming to terms with your thread basis Birdbrain. I can say I appreciate your challenging of conventional Magic wisdoms. But Crows in Magic terms are fliers (blue) and are widely considered to be of higher intellect (blue). Blue also has a proud tradition of crows ({Storm Crow}) because they're fliers that does something blue does. Referring to the old color pie (pre-Mark Rosewater) is unfair. Because a color did something in alpha is not true color pie design.
Crows are not white and you know it. But I do notice you're trying to buck the trend of the Color Pie. At most Crows can be seen as shepards through the afterlife, mythologically. That doesn't fit white either, unless those crows are spirits also.
Not this again -.- I'm staying out of this one except to say that crows are noisy and chase away the other birds and if they come in my yard my dad introduces them to the .22
How am I referencing the old color pie? Explain please?
This is mark Rosewaters colum on the color white. I tried to think about it in terms if this
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/mr57
A little down. He talks about what white cares about. I don't think anything I said doesn't match this
Crows are first and formost birds, and while some birds are white, crows have a distinct reason for being blue. Intelligence. They are also very curious animals, another blue trait. They may be defensive, but remember blue is also quite defensive itself, {Kraken Hatchling} {Augur of Bolas} {Armored Skaab} to name a few that are relevant. If nothing else they cross into black, as they are very vile creatures outside captivity. They are mean spirited, are one of the carrion birds which will harm you greatly when consumed (very non-white), and a collective group is called a murder for a reason. I see no loyalty or law, no hope or protection, not even order or reason when I view crows. You had brought up some good points, but crows absolutely are not white.
I never said crows arnt blue. And very strongly agree with you that they are. They are actually the most intelligent bird. They are cooprative. They care about each other. There monogamous in there mating, which suggests bonds, which is a white thing. Crows show some very white attributes that go grossly ignored because of superstitions. And folklore
White can be mean spirited at times too you know. And so can lions which are in white. So why don't they have black lions?
Crows have too cohesive a group to be considered black. They also form monogamous bonds, which is something black cant do because of lack of trust
Alright, I'll bite again. Vampires just showed us in innistrad that they have very strong bonds, whole family's even. And before that I believe it was lorawyn, unsure as I wasn't around, but goblins were black and had family's as well. We can also look at the fairys from blocks past that are blue and black, also close knit. Another example? Merfolk are often considered communal as well and are blue too. As to the bonding for life aspect, I simply dont see that as a deciding factor. As an example soulbond exists in 4 out of the five colors, bonds Can clearly be shared outside white. I'm just defending what the designers decided. You know very well that the wheel overlaps into other colors and its for that reason creatures/spells have traits with sister colors yet can remain in said color. Crows are blue, angels are white, I get where you're coming from, but your arguement isn't holding up in my eyes
Also. I think there "mean spiritedness" probably comes around the breeding season. Or when there fledglings are on the ground. There probably trying to protect there young
You must miss out on the buggers fighting over rotten flesh. Superstitions start for a reason, crows might not be all nasty, but even monsters love their young.
Alright. How bout saying there esper colored?
Although carrion is the only reason I would say that. None of them would be all black
Though I must point out that they have a very, very wide diet. And do not rely carrion as an everyday food source. So them being in black is a very, very weak claim. And they fit much more in white
In fact. Elderly and weakened hawks eat carrion because they can't hunt so let's put them in black as well
Just because an animal eats carrion doesn't mean it should be put in black
I'm sorry. I take back the esper compromise
On a side note. Vultures are black because carrion is there main food source. And for the most part they are solitary creatures
Oh and {unruly mob}
I think I just realized why most people don't like to debate things...I'm not meaning to downgrade you. Your opinions and thoughts are just as valid as mine are. And for the record, I do consider them
Quote from: Testset on February 21, 2013, 08:52:52 AM
I just thought of a place for another creature. One that belongs in black:
A hideous abberation, defying sense in form and function, so much that is has driven the most brilliant and promising minds to near-madness.
It lies in wait like a recluse, secluded in murky depths, waiting for its foul spawn to plague the earth and spread confusion.
Packing hidden venom, it will lash out and cripple naive travelers who pass by its lair, leaving them lying in agony.
I speak, of course, of the platypus.
😉
from what you described I agree with you. Never would have guessed that though
Edit: I looked up information on the platypus, and couldn't find anything that suggests its in any color, so I agree with you
Quote from: Birdbrain on February 20, 2013, 08:44:37 PM
Crows are a very social animal. Also, whenever there is a predator around; they all start ka'ing in unison and swarming the predator. This fits whites defensiveness. And mechanically look like "destroy target attacking creature" which is a very white thing. This also shows whites organization and relying on the group. They can even plan. There are other examples, but I don't want to overwhelm everyone.
You are far from overwhelming anyone. I would argue that social behavior is not enough to classify something as white. Not only that, but no matter the actual behavior of any given animal, they are going into a color based on the tropes fron literature and other media.
Crows are seen as calculating, intelligent, carrion eating and sometimes evil.
Hawks are seen as beautiful but deadly predators.
Angels are seen as the right arm of justice and protecting the weak.
Anyone could probably dredge up some kind of argument for why any creature type could be any color.
In any case, whether bees should be red, bears black, zombies white, or platypuses green is not that big of a deal. Most people seem to accept where wizards put certain things based on tropes and flavor. usually there are one or two colors that best represent the idea that most people have of any given creature type and that is wizards' goal.
Good argument. And I suppose it is up to wizards. And they will go with how people see them. They also do push the color pie. And MaRo said that each stretch in the time spiral block was well thought out.
And social behavior isn't unique to white. Blue for instance, could be seen as seeking out the ideas of others to add to there own.
Though the one color crows arnt is black. Because black is about self indulgence. And what people try do draw close they draw close to manipulate. So I'll find middle ground with everyone in just saying that crows are NOT black
Although while on the subject of zombies. Why are they blue? The only thing I can think of is there hunger for brains and that going along with blues mill
Quote from: Birdbrain
Although while on the subject of zombies. Why are they blue? The only thing I can think of is there hunger for brains and that going along with blues mill
According to MaRo, black is for the "natural" zombies, and blue is for the "manufactured" undead created by science, e.g. Frankenstein's monster.
Quote from: MementoMori on February 21, 2013, 10:38:17 AM
Quote from: Birdbrain
Although while on the subject of zombies. Why are they blue? The only thing I can think of is there hunger for brains and that going along with blues mill
According to MaRo, black is for the "natural" zombies, and blue is for the "manufactured" undead created by science, e.g. Frankenstein's monster.
makes sense. Also, I'm not challenging the color wheel. I'm only challenging the placement of the creatures in the color wheel
The meaning behind my first post is you are taking parts of magic and mixing personal ideas to spin it the way you see fit.
Quote from: Rass on February 21, 2013, 01:54:59 PM
The meaning behind my first post is you are taking parts of magic and mixing personal ideas to spin it the way you see fit.
That's kinda how im seeing it too hahah.
Quote from: Rass on February 21, 2013, 01:54:59 PM
The meaning behind my first post is you are taking parts of magic and mixing personal ideas to spin it the way you see fit.
no. I was just taking facts about crows and drawing logical conclusions from them. Scroll down on the evidence I posted. Past the first part to where its divided into labeled sections
Edit: thinking about that. I must have done that with green and the angel post. I'll look into that. Though I'm certain I'm not doing that here. I double checked white first
Please tell me where I am doing this so I can fix my understanding of the color pie. I took a third look at my green thread and am just not sure anymore. Where is the hole in my understanding of the color pie?
I might be doing this. Am I? I don't think so. But want to know if I am? I might have done that in my green thread. Please tell me if I am
Quote from: Birdbrain on February 21, 2013, 02:37:44 PM
Please tell me where I am doing this so I can fix my understanding of the color pie. I took a third look at my green thread and am just not sure anymore. Where is the hole in my understanding of the color pie?
I might be doing this. Am I? I don't think so. But want to know if I am? I might have done that in my green thread. Please tell me if I am
You're selecting a minor aspect of something and saying the whole thing should shift. Crows are social, ok? So why should they all be shifted out of blue which has more in common with the crow.
Everything theoretically could be any single color, but they aren't because not everything makes sense for it. Looking into the minutia of everything makes no sense. Wizards has largely been good about moving creature to the right colors.
The Angels argument made no sense, and this one makes even less points.
Colors so easily bleed into each other. The way I'm understanding your thought process is you latch onto one ideal a creature may have and instantly decide "oh this creature could definatly be (insert color)" I'm having a hard time arguing with you when you disregard reasons for creatures being what they are. Magic is a FANTASY game, and it does use hard facts for creatures, but more often it does go by how creatures are perceived. Lions for instance have always be seen as a symbol for noblity, and will always bring up images of honorable warriors and strong pack bonds. Wizards uses that to make them white. However in reality they scream primal rage, always on the hunt, have been known to eat their young, and very selfish when it comes to a kill, sharing only until the highest member had its fill. That could place them in red or black to me.
As people have said, any creature can be made into any color, based on any little fact about them. Crows are blue because of the air of mystery about them, they are flyers, not nearly as noble as griffins (or strong enough as griffins), intelligent, in fantasy often a familiar for wizards. Almost always you need to look at how a creature is perceived, not how some might exhibit certain traits that may match another color.
I don't see the point in these threads at all.
Dudecore. I never said crows should be shifted from blue. In fact. Here is an earlier post from this very thread proving that
Quote from: Birdbrain on February 21, 2013, 05:26:35 AM
I never said crows arnt blue. And very strongly agree with you that they are. They are actually the most intelligent bird.
Also. I argued multipule points and provided evidence for that.
Also. I agreed with someone a while back
Quote from: Birdbrain on February 21, 2013, 09:53:27 AM
Good argument. And I suppose it is up to wizards. And they will go with how people see them. They also do push the color pie. And MaRo said that each stretch in the time spiral block was well thought out.
And social behavior isn't unique to white. Blue for instance, could be seen as seeking out the ideas of others to add to there own.
Though the one color crows arnt is black. Because black is about self indulgence. And what people try do draw close they draw close to manipulate. So I'll find middle ground with everyone in just saying that crows are NOT black
Although while on the subject of zombies. Why are they blue? The only thing I can think of is there hunger for brains and that going along with blues mill
So we're just beating a dead horse
*Confused Keanu*
If storm crow is blue....then why is it black?!
Quote from: Muggywuggy on February 21, 2013, 05:00:07 PM
*Confused Keanu*
If storm crow is blue....then why is it black?!
there talking about what color it was placed in. White, blue, black, red, green. The color pie. It was placed in blue
Quote from: Birdbrain on February 21, 2013, 05:13:33 PM
Quote from: Muggywuggy on February 21, 2013, 05:00:07 PM
*Confused Keanu*
If storm crow is blue....then why is it black?!
there talking about what color it was placed in. White, blue, black, red, green. The color pie. It was placed in blue
You missed the joke hahah.
We do realize there are only 3 crow cards in magic right?
Quote from: scarsabrex on February 21, 2013, 05:21:24 PM
We do realize there are only 3 crow cards in magic right?
.......I'm loling so hard XD
Quote from: scarsabrex on February 21, 2013, 05:21:24 PM
We do realize there are only 3 crow cards in magic right?
And none of them are really that great which stands to reason that no one really cares about crows and if you want a white crow look at {Rainbow Crow} pay a little mana and it can be whatever colour you want it to be
Quote from: S717 on February 21, 2013, 05:56:45 PM
Quote from: scarsabrex on February 21, 2013, 05:21:24 PM
We do realize there are only 3 crow cards in magic right?
And none of them are really that great which stands to reason that no one really cares about crows and if you want a white crow look at {Rainbow Crow} pay a little mana and it can be whatever colour you want it to be
Ahahahah problem solved.
Quote from: Mikefrompluto on February 21, 2013, 06:00:00 PM
Quote from: S717 on February 21, 2013, 05:56:45 PM
Quote from: scarsabrex on February 21, 2013, 05:21:24 PM
We do realize there are only 3 crow cards in magic right?
And none of them are really that great which stands to reason that no one really cares about crows and if you want a white crow look at {Rainbow Crow} pay a little mana and it can be whatever colour you want it to be
Ahahahah problem solved.
no
Aw come on Bird. That was funny.
I'm now convinced these threads are made simply for reactions/ borderline troll threads.
Quote from: S717 on February 21, 2013, 05:56:45 PM
Quote from: scarsabrex on February 21, 2013, 05:21:24 PM
We do realize there are only 3 crow cards in magic right?
And none of them are really that great which stands to reason that no one really cares about crows and if you want a white crow look at {Rainbow Crow} pay a little mana and it can be whatever colour you want it to be
And on top of that, "crow" isn't even a creature type, the creature type is "bird"
Quote from: Vyse on February 21, 2013, 06:30:13 PM
I'm now convinced these threads are made simply for reactions/ borderline troll threads.
i agreed with someone. Other people just keep pushing it
Quote from: Birdbrain on February 21, 2013, 09:53:27 AM
Good argument. And I suppose it is up to wizards. And they will go with how people see them. They also do push the color pie. And MaRo said that each stretch in the time spiral block was well thought out.
And social behavior isn't unique to white. Blue for instance, could be seen as seeking out the ideas of others to add to there own.
Though the one color crows arnt is black. Because black is about self indulgence. And what people try do draw close they draw close to manipulate. So I'll find middle ground with everyone in just saying that crows are NOT black
Although while on the subject of zombies. Why are they blue? The only thing I can think of is there hunger for brains and that going along with blues mill
Quote from: Vyse on February 21, 2013, 06:30:13 PM
I'm now convinced these threads are made simply for reactions/ borderline troll threads.
Sure, but is there anything wrong with that?
It's your forum, if you have nothing wrong with it I'll just ignore these threads past this.
Quote from: Vyse on February 21, 2013, 09:09:57 PM
It's your forum, if you have nothing wrong with it I'll just ignore these threads past this.
i never said I was making more of these. I just said there purpose will become clear
Quote from: Birdbrain on February 21, 2013, 09:43:17 PM
i never said I was making more of these. I just said there purpose will become clear
Upping your post count? Jkjk
Quote from: Rass on February 21, 2013, 09:46:41 PM
Quote from: Birdbrain on February 21, 2013, 09:43:17 PM
i never said I was making more of these. I just said there purpose will become clear
Upping your post count? Jkjk
no
Quote from: Vyse on February 21, 2013, 09:09:57 PM
It's your forum, if you have nothing wrong with it I'll just ignore these threads past this.
If someone really annoys me but without breaking the law, I can always use the Hide button.