I read an article recently, and it gave me a new outlook on magic the gathering. This person said we as human naturally have our own mindset about how we classify things. Some would say Soul Sisters is and always will be a terrible deck.
Before we begin that I have to ask what is magic the gathering the trading card game centered around. Some would say chess, physics, (inertia for the physics people) etc...
Well mtg is actually centered around a set of rules. Think about it whenever someone drops an emrakrul most people would say that's game. But some would drop something like a diabolic edict. What most people say is happening is card advantage, when actually the players are changing the rules.
As you let that sink in let's think about the Soul Sisters deck again.
Running what it does it doesn't know how to deal with certain decks. Although it can change the rules for one deck, it can't for another. What one deck lacks, another deck focuses on.
So I suggest we do again what we've done recently, we make a deck as a community, but this time we make it so it has a minimal amount of vulnerability. One that makes it so you are the only player able to change the rules.
Please pm me and leave comments below, ideas are accepted but be ready to be criticized! :)
Im happy to see someone else taking this approach. A majority of my personal decks are built from this idea (i dont extensively/ competitively play most of the deck ideas i post).
The next step is to identify what is strong or needs to be beat. This means the top 50% of the competition needs to be reviewed. From there we ask these questions about each deck:
What is the deck?
Does it fall under a greater archetype?
Does it have clearly good or bad match ups?
Why are those match ups good or bad?
What does the deck need to win?
Either answer these questions and post them or post decks types and we'll break them down here. I cant speak for all magic, my LGS meta is large and consists mostly of aggro and homebrews. Ill think on it and post break downs for the winning decks.
I really like this concept. Changing one's line of thinkig can lead to better deck building and gameplay, among other things. Thank you for making this post, OP...I will for sure participate in a community deck.
I'm also interested with this.
In effect you are looking to make the ultimate control deck, or maybe even an untouchable solitaire deck?
The issue with this is that we will need a win condition.
In regards to some of the popular deck formats running in my lgs,
Rdw needs targeting.
Control needs card advantage.
Agro needs to keep their creatures (or mass them)
Mill need defense / protection.
Midrange needs mana/ramp.
Reanimator needs its graveyard.
That's all I can think of at the moment.
Good, another thing to keep in mind with this train of deck building as a group is that we wont (shouldn't) be making a 60 card deck with a 15 card sideboard. We should however be making a 75 card pool for players to pick and choose along basic guidlines what they need for their personal meta.
Quote from: Wally on February 13, 2013, 02:39:28 AM
I'm also interested with this.
In effect you are looking to make the ultimate control deck, or maybe even an untouchable solitaire deck?
The issue with this is that we will need a win condition.
In regards to some of the popular deck formats running in my lgs,
Rdw needs targeting.
Control needs card advantage.
Agro needs to keep their creatures (or mass them)
Mill need defense / protection.
Midrange needs mana/ramp.
Reanimator needs its graveyard.
That's all I can think of at the moment.
All of these ideas are great, now what are cards that can prevent most these things (deck styles look above at what they need). Throw some card ideas out, have fun! :) any other ideas would great you guys and thanks for looking this thing up! :)
I'd say you identify the decks of the format that's doing work and identify within each one it's weakness and strenght and build around that . What the guy two posts above me said lol . Since all of our lgs meta is different to a small or even large scale , touching on each archetype and setting a defense against each one will be complicated unless we can utilize and offense in the form of defense . But than again ..
We haven't started yet ^.^
Where I play American flash takes all top spots every week.
The one person who always top 4 at place I go has been using a vary unique bant control deck like I've never seen anything like it, its really had to beat mainly he get 1-2 place it's scary
Quote from: Coheed015 on February 13, 2013, 12:50:57 PM
I'd say you identify the decks of the format that's doing work and identify within each one it's weakness and strenght and build around that . What the guy two posts above me said lol . Since all of our lgs meta is different to a small or even large scale , touching on each archetype and setting a defense against each one will be complicated unless we can utilize and offense in the form of defense . But than again ..
We haven't started yet ^.^
Your right we all have different mindsets about archetypes so it should be interesting to see what happens, this should be a lot of fun
Quote from: Seth5000 on February 13, 2013, 01:05:39 PM
The one person who always top 4 at place I go has been using a vary unique bant control deck like I've never seen anything like it, its really had to beat mainly he get 1-2 place it's scary
That could be a good starting point .
What makes his deck so different from the decks out there labeled bant control ?
I've seen and read that aggro creature decks are the most common. I'd say start there. {blind obedience} comes to mind to slow the attacks. But is only really effective against decks utilizing haste. Also check out the door decks. They basically wipe the field and get planswalkers to control/win until they pull {door to nothingness} as a win con.
Ok people we will begin card and deck ideas soon, I will inform you guys when it starts but these are good ideas and conversations, so I'll wait a bit. Until that time keep coming up with ideas and start thinking about rule changing cards. Good luck! ;)
Quote from: Coheed015 on February 13, 2013, 01:11:13 PM
Quote from: Seth5000 on February 13, 2013, 01:05:39 PM
The one person who always top 4 at place I go has been using a vary unique bant control deck like I've never seen anything like it, its really had to beat mainly he get 1-2 place it's scary
That could be a good starting point .
What makes his deck so different from the decks out there labeled bant control ?
He uses thing all other bant decks use like thragy tamiyo and jace but the way his mana is and the other cards he uses like gauruk centar healer and other things it's just he knows how to use it also make him in the top every time his deck has a unique way of doing control which makes it better than most of the over powered decks that everyone says are the best
I am not saying we should build reanimator, but here is something about reanimator that we should consider:
A good reanimator deck can win even if {Rest in Peace} is cast on turn 2.
This means that all good decks may have a specific way to win, but all good decks also have other ways to win. When building the deck, let's not build too much around one idea. We need to be able to win and not be effected by rule-changing cards too much, like {Rest in Peace}, {Blind Obedience}, {Glaring Spotlight}, etc.
Quote from: Coffee Vampire on February 13, 2013, 02:11:30 PM
I am not saying we should build reanimator, but here is something about reanimator that we should consider:
A good reanimator deck can win even if {Rest in Peace} is cast on turn 2.
This means that all good decks may have a specific way to win, but all good decks also have other ways to win. When building the deck, let's not build too much around one idea. We need to be able to win and not be effected by rule-changing cards too much, like {Rest in Peace}, {Blind Obedience}, {Glaring Spotlight}, etc.
Reanimator. Always reanimator.
Quote from: Seth5000 on February 13, 2013, 02:01:03 PM
Quote from: Coheed015 on February 13, 2013, 01:11:13 PM
Quote from: Seth5000 on February 13, 2013, 01:05:39 PM
The one person who always top 4 at place I go has been using a vary unique bant control deck like I've never seen anything like it, its really had to beat mainly he get 1-2 place it's scary
That could be a good starting point .
What makes his deck so different from the decks out there labeled bant control ?
He uses thing all other bant decks use like thragy tamiyo and jace but the way his mana is and the other cards he uses like gauruk centar healer and other things it's just he knows how to use it also make him in the top every time his deck has a unique way of doing control which makes it better than most of the over powered decks that everyone says are the best
Ah I understand what you mean . I know someone at my FNM that always tops with his control deck and what ticks me off is that he never changes it and it still does so well . Its not all just about the deck . It also has to be understood by its Pilot . Otherwise your just taking a deck without instructions and running it without knowing its in and outs from rigorous play testing .
Quote from: Coffee Vampire on February 13, 2013, 02:11:30 PM
I am not saying we should build reanimator, but here is something about reanimator that we should consider:
A good reanimator deck can win even if {Rest in Peace} is cast on turn 2.
This means that all good decks may have a specific way to win, but all good decks also have other ways to win. When building the deck, let's not build too much around one idea. We need to be able to win and not be effected by rule-changing cards too much, like {Rest in Peace}, {Blind Obedience}, {Glaring Spotlight}, etc.
It is a good point and it will be taken into consideration. Which makes me think, what if we were screwed by some certain cards, some that would demolish our initial plan. Whet do we have as a back-up for this deck
I think Tudor cards are beneficial. Not having to rely on drawing what you need is always nice
Quote from: Trunksthemighty on February 13, 2013, 02:52:57 PM
I think Tudor cards are beneficial. Not having to rely on drawing what you need is always nice
True, although beneficial Tudors can be cumbersome, depending if some of the cards are absolutely needed or if it doesn't matter what you draw as long as it's useful. It kind of depends on the deck, but I could be wrong, most likely I am...
I'll see what happens! ^_^
Quote from: FlickerYourOwnIdentity on February 13, 2013, 03:34:37 PM
Quote from: Trunksthemighty on February 13, 2013, 02:52:57 PM
I think Tudor cards are beneficial. Not having to rely on drawing what you need is always nice
True, although beneficial Tudors can be cumbersome, depending if some of the cards are absolutely needed or if it doesn't matter what you draw as long as it's useful. It kind of depends on the deck, but I could be wrong, most likely I am...
I'll see what happens! ^_^
Valid point. If we are making the best deck possible according to the colaboration of everyone we should always draw something useful.
Quote from: Trunksthemighty on February 13, 2013, 03:43:03 PM
Quote from: FlickerYourOwnIdentity on February 13, 2013, 03:34:37 PM
Quote from: Trunksthemighty on February 13, 2013, 02:52:57 PM
I think Tudor cards are beneficial. Not having to rely on drawing what you need is always nice
True, although beneficial Tudors can be cumbersome, depending if some of the cards are absolutely needed or if it doesn't matter what you draw as long as it's useful. It kind of depends on the deck, but I could be wrong, most likely I am...
I'll see what happens! ^_^
Valid point. If we are making the best deck possible according to the colaboration of everyone we should always draw something useful.
We should definitely put in digging into the library . More draw means more options like {Thought Scour} . If we go reanimator route it's extra when we use it on us if not , why not mill 2 from oppenent and who knows what you might hit . But digging into your library as much as possible to get answers to what's on the board is essential if this is going to be all around build .
So far I am looking at a bant deck that has splashed black. Red seems more of an aggressive color and it doesn't have a lot of stable things to offer that would benefit a solid "anti everything" god deck.
Quote from: Coffee Vampire on February 13, 2013, 05:16:18 PM
So far I am looking at a bant deck that has splashed black. Red seems more of an aggressive color and it doesn't have a lot of stable things to offer that would benefit a solid "anti everything" god deck.
Well that is true... Bant is what I was thinking too, what I wasn't thinking about is splashing black. I mean for sacrifice we could use sigarda, against aggro we could use {supreme verdict}, splashing black could add discard against control though... Very interesting!
Ok here's what i have.
Reanimator
Strengths: mana ramp, draw card, big bombs, strong mid and late game, versitile sideboard options.
Weaknesses: graveyard based mechanics, dork based mana (some), counterspells, bomb to deck count ratio is low
-----------------------------------------------------------
RDW, boros, naya, and gruul aggro
Strengths: fast high damage early game with powerful swarmming, many combat tricks, some direct damage/ removal, haste, difficult to block
Weaknesses: wrath, tap effects, lifegain, first strike, mid and late game
-----------------------------------------------------------
Boros, naya, and gruul midrange
Strengths: versitile threats, spot removal, burn, utility cards, minor ramp, decent early mid and late plays, haste
Weaknesses: wrath, tap down effects, lifegain, hand hate, counterspells ({cavern of souls} unused)
-----------------------------------------------------------
Jund midrange
Strengths: versitile threats, spot removal, burn, utility cards, minor ramp, decent early mid and late plays, haste, hand hate, versitile answers
Weaknesses: hand hate, tap down effects, wrath (less so than against aggro), spot removal, fast aggro
-----------------------------------------------------------
Humans (any color)
Strengths: fast aggro swarming, first strike, minor mana acceleration, tribal (for cavern), well tested
Weaknesses: tap down effects, wrath, tribal hate, color intensive, late game
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Rakdos aggro
Strength: recursion, fast aggro, non combat life loss, wrath resiliant, spot removal and burn, haste, tribal
Weaknesses: tap down, lifegain, non damage or "destroy" based wrath, tribal (or color) hate, first strike.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Combo (omniscience)
Strengths: versitile answers, wrath, ramp, card draw, possible end game as early as turn 4
Weaknesses: hand hate, artifact hate, enchantment hate, fast aggro (or combo)
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Combo (humans)
Strengths: fast infinite, minor ramp, card draw, utility creatures
Weaknesses: graveyard based, spot removal, wrath, mill with counters
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Combo ({burn at the stake}/ {massive raid})
Strengths: really fast combo, swarm
Weaknesses: spot removal, counter spells, early hand hate
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Bant and esper control
Strengths: counters, draw/ramp, wrath, tap down and bounce, flash, versitile answers ans wincons, planeswalkers
Weaknesses: fast aggro, hand hate, recursion
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Junk and black white tokens
Strengths: swarm, flying, lifelink, death touch, planeswalkers, army rebuild
Weaknesses: tap down, fast aggro, enchantment and walker hate, tribal hate
Ok let's see so most of the things that pop up are wraiths, hand hate, spot removal, and tap down effects, some ones that are lesser seen are lifegain, graveyard hate, and enchantment hate. Those are the most commonly seen problems. I thank kaleo for breaking that down because that is time consuming, so props for that. Deck idea days are coming up very soon guys be ready with your idea... ;)
Woah thanks kaleo, that post will for sure make things much better. It's nice to have it all in one place so we can focus on trying to make a deck instead of wondering what decks do. +1! :)
Does it have to be standard? Just wondering
Yup, dat is why it be in teh standard section of teh forumz ;D
Haha duh lol I forgot what section I was in lol
I mean there is no one awesome deck, some games your deck hates you and others its awesome. Me beig a control player, and have been since I've been playing magic, Bant Control is by far my favorite. Since I made it, I've placed 1st 5x and 3rd once. The 3rd was some bogus system mechanics because I played the only undefeated guy and gave him a spanking. Look at the overall meta as a whole and see what's winning tournaments...people more often then not jut Net deck ideas. I can't lie, my first bant is what I did and since then I've tweaked and remade into my own. But back to what's winning, Aggro and midrange...and what kills both? Board control and life gain. I run 8x board sweepers now because of that. I've played my deck enough to know what I need in hand to beat Aggro decks on opening hand. 3 lands a farseek and a supreme verdict. You just need to know how to beat the decks. That's just my input. Could be wrong.
Ok guys starting now we will put out deck ideas, we will work off those base colors and splash if we need to. The deck idea that has the most people saying yes to it is our base idea. Please put deck colors along with your post of a deck idea. Let the games begin...
2 days or less from now is deadline and then we will start card idea day.
Imma have to go with Bant again.
Control with digging cards and board wipes . I see planes walkers in the list as well to help with keepin things on lock and removal for those tricky hexproof issues and more to come ... Lol
For this I would start with bant and splash black for kill spells and Posibly discards for card advantage bant is a good way to start because of mana ramp life gain and counters/boardwipes
Now I prefer esper but that in my opinion is not the best way to go for this deck
Quote from: Seth5000 on February 14, 2013, 10:17:46 AM
For this I would start with bant and splash black for kill spells and Posibly discards for card advantage bant is a good way to start because of mana ramp life gain and counters/boardwipes
Now I prefer esper but that in my opinion is not the best way to go for this deck
I think I agree with you on bant
Well {terminus}, {blind obediance}, and {farseek} need to be included. Each has such a powerful all consuming effect on the meta that it would be silly not to include those.
Im thinking about the benefits of blue, black, and red right now. So far blue has not impressed me since it's best cards are {sphinx's revelation} and {supreme verdict} both of which large portions of the meta couldnt care less about (becase of {boros charm}, undying, and {frontline medic}). Yes blue has the walkers but that might not be enough.
I haven't seen {Glaring Spotlight} played once with anyone I play with. That being said, hexproof creatures such as {Sigarda, Host of Herons} and {Geist of Saint Traft} force people to make tough decisions.
Quote from: Trunksthemighty on February 14, 2013, 12:32:17 PM
I haven't seen {Glaring Spotlight} played once with anyone I play with. That being said, hexproof creatures such as {Sigarda, Host of Herons} and {Geist of Saint Traft} force people to make tough decisions.
I agree and it is surprising that people don't even use it that much in sideboards too.
Quote from: FlickerYourOwnIdentity on February 14, 2013, 12:50:03 PM
Quote from: Trunksthemighty on February 14, 2013, 12:32:17 PM
I haven't seen {Glaring Spotlight} played once with anyone I play with. That being said, hexproof creatures such as {Sigarda, Host of Herons} and {Geist of Saint Traft} force people to make tough decisions.
I agree and it is surprising that people don't even use it that much in sideboards too.
With so much aggro in the format right now glaring spotlight is the least of their worries lol that's why we re not seeing it much . In all my matches since release date , I haven't seen a single spotlight hit the board .
Quote from: Kaleo42 on February 14, 2013, 12:19:50 PM
Well {terminus}, {blind obediance}, and {farseek} need to be included. Each has such a powerful all consuming effect on the meta that it would be silly not to include those.
Im thinking about the benefits of blue, black, and red right now. So far blue has not impressed me since it's best cards are {sphinx's revelation} and {supreme verdict} both of which large portions of the meta couldnt care less about (becase of {boros charm}, undying, and {frontline medic}). Yes blue has the walkers but that might not be enough.
If we add blue walkers I would say tamiyo > jace but that's my opinion
The blue walkers work best in tandem with other walkers. Sigarda would be a good bomb, only wrath hits her which will usually be your own that lets you get her back later anyways.
Sorry to interfere guys, maybe I am out o the topic, but after 4 days of constant testing of Bant PW deck I cannot agree more that if u want include blue planeswalkers then u must include {Tamiyo, the Moon Sage} and {Jace, Architect of Thought} and optonaly also core set jace, if u want keep drawing cards.. Or maybe consider {Otherworld Atlas}...
I read an interesting article about turbo fog. It said to think of {Otherworld Atlas} as a pw. It can generate cards for you, and if you "+1" it enough it can reach "ultimate" (like 4 or 5 counters) where it plays a large roll in decking your opponent.
Now I don't think our main wincon should be mill/fog, but it is a good way to view artifacts.
I say if you are running atlas, you might as well replace it with jace AOT. Same CMC, and you can use it right away. Jace AOT doesn't win the game like atlas can sometimes do, but he is a great disposable CA engine. One of the few pws I wouldn't mind running a playset of. Though 3 would probably be more reasonable.
Quote from: Coffee Vampire on February 14, 2013, 04:18:33 PM
I read an interesting article about turbo fog. It said to think of {Otherworld Atlas} as a pw. It can generate cards for you, and if you "+1" it enough it can reach "ultimate" (like 4 or 5 counters) where it plays a large roll in decking your opponent.
Now I don't think our main wincon should be mill/fog, but it is a good way to view artifacts.
I say if you are running atlas, you might as well replace it with jace AOT. Same CMC, and you can use it right away. Jace AOT doesn't win the game like atlas can sometimes do, but he is a great disposable CA engine. One of the few pws I wouldn't mind running a playset of. Though 3 would probably be more reasonable.
Hehe maybe u read the same article as I did three days ago... Comparison of two fog models...;)
Ok recently we are still vague on this deck for the community. So we are going to change things up a bit. Give colors plus any splashed colors. So if you say bant splash black, say UGW sp/B. You must also include win con if you have one in mind. Sorry for rule change.
Quote from: Coffee Vampire on February 14, 2013, 04:18:33 PM
I read an interesting article about turbo fog. It said to think of {Otherworld Atlas} as a pw. It can generate cards for you, and if you "+1" it enough it can reach "ultimate" (like 4 or 5 counters) where it plays a large roll in decking your opponent.
Now I don't think our main wincon should be mill/fog, but it is a good way to view artifacts.
I say if you are running atlas, you might as well replace it with jace AOT. Same CMC, and you can use it right away. Jace AOT doesn't win the game like atlas can sometimes do, but he is a great disposable CA engine. One of the few pws I wouldn't mind running a playset of. Though 3 would probably be more reasonable.
I can't tell you enough how much I dislike seeing Jace AOT on the other side . It's an advantage automatically that can switch the game in your favor in the majority of games .
Quote from: FlickerYourOwnIdentity on February 14, 2013, 05:19:53 PM
Ok recently we are still vague on this deck for the community. So we are going to change things up a bit. Give colors plus any splashed colors. So if you say bant splash black, say UGW sp/B. You must also include win con if you have one in mind. Sorry for rule change.
You are right, thanks for keeping us on track! I will post my color info once I look up all the bombs for my choice. My brain is a little fried right now because I just finished taking a math exam :p
Quote from: Coffee Vampire on February 14, 2013, 06:31:36 PM
You are right, thanks for keeping us on track! I will post my color info once I look up all the bombs for my choice. My brain is a little fried right now because I just finished taking a math exam :p
Oh wow I just finished math exams too! Lol
UWG sp/B. win con is bombs. Sigarda, angel of serenity, thragtusk. And I'd love to see us throw a grizzybeard down. Chromatic lantern for mana fixing.
If we are sticking with a control deck then I suggest we look at cards which we can vary according to what we are playing against.
Eg. {Nevermore} and {Slaughter Games} are great at shutting down whatever deck we come up against. I'm sure there is more out there tho.
Quote from: Wally on February 14, 2013, 07:41:13 PM
If we are sticking with a control deck then I suggest we look at cards which we can vary according to what we are playing against.
Eg. {Nevermore} and {Slaughter Games} are great at shutting down whatever deck we come up against. I'm sure there is more out there tho.
Slaughter Games... The detention sphere of rakdos. :). I agree completely but remember we still haven't decide on deck colors, and win con... Just putting that out there
Hell we could do 5 color control. Lol
Quote from: Calebestes on February 14, 2013, 09:57:15 PM
Hell we could do 5 color control. Lol
Oh god that would be HARD, but intresting to see what acually makes the deck. Plus it would be hard to find a win con...
I swear half the people here are just going to suddenly scream out FIVE COLOR CONTROL!!!
Very viable and not as hard as it seems. The hard part us not putting cards in because you want them, but instead putting them in because you need them.
I haven't been following this extremely closely, but shouldn't concessions be made for budgetary reasons? 5-color land base can get expensive.
Quote from: Kaleo42 on February 14, 2013, 10:27:40 PM
Very viable and not as hard as it seems. The hard part us not putting cards in because you want them, but instead putting them in because you need them.
Thanks I forgot to put that in my post but yeah, discard for hand hate, lifegain for well, lifegain, wraiths for board control, bombs for win con, mana ramp for mana, exile graveyards for graveyard hate, the list is endless. But like you said if we do five color control (God forbid) then when do we stop and decide what goes in that massive list of cards, because we'll all have an opinion about what stays and goes. Which is why I resent FCC but we'll do it if it is chosen. :/
I saw an esper control deck list recently and I thought it looked very solid. Win conditions were {Entreat the Angels} as a one of, {Nephalia Drownyard} and {Jace, Memory Adept} and otherwise really heavy on control. It seemed very strong.
Quote from: Dudecore on February 14, 2013, 10:31:51 PM
I haven't been following this extremely closely, but shouldn't concessions be made for budgetary reasons? 5-color land base can get expensive.
Yes it can and that is another reason I can resent FCC...
Keep the ideas coming deadline is coming up so good luck.
Quote from: iTzTowelie404 on February 15, 2013, 12:40:33 AM
I saw an esper control deck list recently and I thought it looked very solid. Win conditions were {Entreat the Angels} as a one of, {Nephalia Drownyard} and {Jace, Memory Adept} and otherwise really heavy on control. It seemed very strong.
I made an esper control with Obzedat and Geraf's messenger as my main win con just flickering them as much as posible and it works really well I've played ageanst 19 people now and only lost 4 times
Lets do 5 color mana ramp into big beasties and board wipes and card draw. Lol
Bant with splashed black for {Obzedat, Ghost Council} and {Nephalia Drownyard}, and maybe some sideboard stuff like {Sever the Bloodline}.
2-3 {Sphinx's Revelation}, probably just 2 because of all the things we must fit. But when you add a 7 drop like {Angel of Serenity}, ask yourself: would a sphinx's for 4 at instant speed be better than removal/recursion for 3 at sorcery?
I would say add 2 angels and 2 revelations to the deck. They both have good uses as 7 drops. {Thragtusk} seems like a good 3-of, and perhaps a single {Disciple of Bolas}. {Restoration Angel} seems like a good 2 of, and {Snapcaster Mage} as a 1 of maybe.
{Farseek} and {Blind Obedience} seem like good 2 drops. {Ranger's Parh} seems like a must in a 4 color green based deck.
If your gonna run bant I suggest fog banks as well. I mean a two drop aggression stopper is pretty damn good if you ask me
I think you guys are looking at this deck wrong. If you want a deck that always wins you need to have a deck that doesn't care about your opponent. A deck that can't be stopped in anyway and has only one purpose, deal 20 life. A deck that can't be touch by your opponent. You would run mainly strong creatures with hex proof that can either fly, are unblockable, can make your opponents cards not block, or just deal straight damage. That would be an unstoppable deck in my eyes.
Quote from: Joshnoodles on February 16, 2013, 03:00:38 AM
I think you guys are looking at this deck wrong. If you want a deck that always wins you need to have a deck that doesn't care about your opponent. A deck that can't be stopped in anyway and has only one purpose, deal 20 life. A deck that can't be touch by your opponent. You would run mainly strong creatures with hex proof that can either fly, are unblockable, can make your opponents cards not block, or just deal straight damage. That would be an unstoppable deck in my eyes.
That's not the purpose here. We're looking to build a deck that can adapt to any competitive deck and maintain a powerful stance against anything in the format. I'm sorry to tell you that none of the magikarp goldfish decks will be turning into a garydos in this format. The wincons are too varied for any one goldfish to beat them all. Auras is the closest to doing this though.
*Goldfish: deck that doesnt care what the opponent does.
{Thragtusk}, {Boros Reckoner}, {Angel of Serenity}, {Sigarda, Host of Herons}, {Rhox Faithmender}, {Restoration Angel}. I think these creatures are the best in the format at the time. It's more midrange then anything. Mix this with board wipes, card draw and counters. I think it'd be pretty awesome. If it is 75 cards total. I think it'd be alright. Something to try at least.
I don't know about what colours to use but I would love to see a deck that is made up to be competitive and fun but to not have the cards that every bloody deck has (eg, {Thragtusk}, {Angel of Serenity} ect) but that is just me, I am a little over facing the same thing all the time.
I wanna see boros humans that gets really aggressive and has {Blind obediance} so when they need to play blockers they cant
Ok guys the deadline is finally here! And the deck we will build is BANT splashing black. Now the win-con is still fuzzy so post a wincon. I'm sorry if it seems like this deck is taking so long...
Disclaimer: I chose off the votes not my own opinion. Sorry if your deck wasnt chosen. The runners up was ESPER CONTROL, AND FIVE COLOR CONTROL. we will not be using these decks though, but you still tied for 2nd! So be happy in spirit! :)
Some thing like maybe...mill?
27 land with a 3-4 {Nephelia drownyard}. Since we have green {alchemist's refuge} is also really good. Before i have to defend this land count, control can not afford to miss a land drop EVER, and mulliganing often leads to losing. With draw power and fetch this will be the proper count. (26 optional but only if a nephelia takes a sideboard slot against control).
Quote from: Kaleo42 on February 16, 2013, 12:33:08 PM
27 land with a 3-4 {Nephelia drownyard}. Since we have green {alchemist's refuge} is also really good. Before i have to defend this land count, control can not afford to miss a land drop EVER, and mulliganing often leads to losing. With draw power and fetch this will be the proper count. (26 optional but only if a nephelia takes a sideboard slot against control).
Cool, but maybe 25 lands is more reasonable. Because no one wants to be mana flooded.
Quote from: FlickerYourOwnIdentity on February 16, 2013, 04:54:51 PM
Quote from: Kaleo42 on February 16, 2013, 12:33:08 PM
27 land with a 3-4 {Nephelia drownyard}. Since we have green {alchemist's refuge} is also really good. Before i have to defend this land count, control can not afford to miss a land drop EVER, and mulliganing often leads to losing. With draw power and fetch this will be the proper count. (26 optional but only if a nephelia takes a sideboard slot against control).
Cool, but maybe 25 lands is more reasonable. Because no one wants to be mana flooded.
I'm with Kaleo on this one though , having those two extra lands is great for not missing a single land drop which is the purpose of a good balance Control deck . Especially if we re trying to have a response for any angle of target to our resources , or threats.
Ok sure we will do 26/27 lands main deck. Please post wincons guys so far theres only mill.
{Thragtusk} with {restoration angel}, {Obzedat Ghost council}.
And i know this one isnt a wincon but can we please mainboard {azorius charm}? Its just so good
Agreed on the charm
Deadline is here!!!
The wincon we are using is MILL!!!!
Mostly because mill was the only thing suggested, so everyone the card gate days have opened so start thinking of cards to do in, ratios of cards come later. To get a card you must post a card, then 4 other people must vote for the same card. Good luck! :)
Lol do you want this deck ready for game day?
Cards.
So since we are sticking with a control mill deck blue will be our heavy color I imagine.
{Jace, Memory Adept}
{Tamiyo, the Moon Sage}
{Fog Bank}
{Reliquary Tower}
{Otherworld Atlas}
{Dissipate}
{Thought Scour}
Quote from: Wally on February 17, 2013, 05:55:11 PM
Lol do you want this deck ready for game day?
Cards.
So since we are sticking with a control mill deck blue will be our heavy color I imagine.
{Jace, Memory Adept}
{Tamiyo, the Moon Sage}
{Fog Bank}
{Reliquary Tower}
{Otherworld Atlas}
{Dissipate}
{Thought Scour}
+ {Mind Sculpt}
{Feeling of Dread}
{Sleep}
{Supreme Verdict}
{Duskmantle Guildmage}?
{Mind Grind}, {Duskmantle Seer} and the very underestimated {Sands of Delirium}
Quote from: Drewy on February 17, 2013, 06:40:54 PM
{Mind Grind}, {Duskmantle Seer} and the very underestimated {Sands of Delirium}
Lol love the Seer, but he is sooo dangerous against you. I've won games by just having fog banks and passing the turn, letting the Seer demolish its own controller.
Cool ideas guys I have to say I'm surprised with the sudden reaction card opening just going to say something. If your card is voted it could be voted out. This is only if 10 people vote it out when we finally put the whole thing together. So say the deck is done but we have 78 cards... We might have take some cards out... Sorry guys. :(
Mill is not a viable strategy along our origional guidelines. It is a viable wincon though. All this means is that a set of {nephalia drownyard} and a {jace memory adept} or two. What we really need is all consuming answers to allow time for the drownyard to kick in.
{farseek}, {snapcaster mage}, {abrupt decay}, {terminus}, etc.
Quote from: Kaleo42 on February 17, 2013, 07:07:02 PM
Mill is not a viable strategy along our origional guidelines. It is a viable wincon though. All this means is that a set of {nephalia drownyard} and a {jace memory adept} or two. What we really need is all consuming answers to allow time for the drownyard to kick in.
{farseek}, {snapcaster mage}, {abrupt decay}, {terminus}, etc.
I agree originally this is not the viable wincon, but this was the only win con suggested
Quote from: FlickerYourOwnIdentity on February 17, 2013, 07:32:04 PM
Quote from: Kaleo42 on February 17, 2013, 07:07:02 PM
Mill is not a viable strategy along our origional guidelines. It is a viable wincon though. All this means is that a set of {nephalia drownyard} and a {jace memory adept} or two. What we really need is all consuming answers to allow time for the drownyard to kick in.
{farseek}, {snapcaster mage}, {abrupt decay}, {terminus}, etc.
I agree originally this is not the viable wincon, but this was the only win con suggested
It is a viable wincon not a viable strategy. Meaning win via mill is possible and likely, using milling cards to do it is not going to work well.
Quote from: Kaleo42 on February 17, 2013, 07:37:06 PM
Quote from: FlickerYourOwnIdentity on February 17, 2013, 07:32:04 PM
Quote from: Kaleo42 on February 17, 2013, 07:07:02 PM
Mill is not a viable strategy along our origional guidelines. It is a viable wincon though. All this means is that a set of {nephalia drownyard} and a {jace memory adept} or two. What we really need is all consuming answers to allow time for the drownyard to kick in.
{farseek}, {snapcaster mage}, {abrupt decay}, {terminus}, etc.
I agree originally this is not the viable wincon, but this was the only win con suggested
It is a viable wincon not a viable strategy. Meaning win via mill is possible and likely, using milling cards to do it is not going to work well.
I agree👍
Quote from: Kaleo42 on February 17, 2013, 07:37:06 PM
Quote from: FlickerYourOwnIdentity on February 17, 2013, 07:32:04 PM
Quote from: Kaleo42 on February 17, 2013, 07:07:02 PM
Mill is not a viable strategy along our origional guidelines. It is a viable wincon though. All this means is that a set of {nephalia drownyard} and a {jace memory adept} or two. What we really need is all consuming answers to allow time for the drownyard to kick in.
{farseek}, {snapcaster mage}, {abrupt decay}, {terminus}, etc.
I agree originally this is not the viable wincon, but this was the only win con suggested
It is a viable wincon not a viable strategy. Meaning win via mill is possible and likely, using milling cards to do it is not going to work well.
Agreed, there just aren't enough solid mill cards for it to be a strategy. Not like we have {Archive Trap} or {Traumatize} to work with.
But {Mind Sculpt} is definitely a solid choice.
I'm thinking of a three part strategy; fog/blocks, mill, damage due to mill.
With cards like {Fog Bank}, {Fog}, {Jace's Phantasm}, {Jace, Memory Adept},{Duskmantle Guildmage}, etc etc etc.
Find away to use cards going to the graveyard as a way to deal damage. Suddenly it feels like instead of having to mill 53 or lower cards, we only have to make 20 milled cards cause 20 damage.
{Blind obedience} will buy us some time for some fast decks
Quote from: Hays413 on February 17, 2013, 07:48:01 PM
Quote from: Kaleo42 on February 17, 2013, 07:37:06 PM
Quote from: FlickerYourOwnIdentity on February 17, 2013, 07:32:04 PM
Quote from: Kaleo42 on February 17, 2013, 07:07:02 PM
Mill is not a viable strategy along our origional guidelines. It is a viable wincon though. All this means is that a set of {nephalia drownyard} and a {jace memory adept} or two. What we really need is all consuming answers to allow time for the drownyard to kick in.
{farseek}, {snapcaster mage}, {abrupt decay}, {terminus}, etc.
I agree originally this is not the viable wincon, but this was the only win con suggested
It is a viable wincon not a viable strategy. Meaning win via mill is possible and likely, using milling cards to do it is not going to work well.
Agreed, there just aren't enough solid mill cards for it to be a strategy. Not like we have {Archive Trap} or {Traumatize} to work with.
But {Mind Sculpt} is definitely a solid choice.
I'm thinking of a three part strategy; fog/blocks, mill, damage due to mill.
With cards like {Fog Bank}, {Fog}, {Jace's Phantasm}, {Jace, Memory Adept},{Duskmantle Guildmage}, etc etc etc.
Find away to use cards going to the graveyard as a way to deal damage. Suddenly it feels like instead of having to mill 53 or lower cards, we only have to make 20 milled cards cause 20 damage.
Oh archive trap and tramatize. If only they were still standard... I wish we still had {Hedron Crab} and {Glimpse of the Unthinkable} too.
God I love the Crab!
Quote from: Hays413 on February 17, 2013, 07:54:21 PM
God I love the Crab!
I ran a crazy mill deck back during zendikar
I always liked one or two {undead alchemist} in a mill deck. Gives some creatures and helps the mill or bounce the alchemist and swing zombies for damage. Helps against reanimator decks too.
Thoughts on maybe modifying Ben Stark's pro tour deck?
http://youtu.be/FEB0jrKKdas
Quote from: TJKoer on February 17, 2013, 11:40:20 PM
I always liked one or two {undead alchemist} in a mill deck. Gives some creatures and helps the mill or bounce the alchemist and swing zombies for damage. Helps against reanimator decks too.
I love undead alchemist! I second the idea! :)
I also think that {Jace, the Memory Adept}, {Duskmantle Guildmage}, {Havenguel Lich}, and {Mind Sculpt} should be in the deck
I posted a deck based on this thread's idea under the name "DARKBANT". Feel free to offer suggestions or ask questions.