10 GAME stores in Stockholm will start selling Mtg, ygo and pokemon cards and have a "10 cent" box of singles.
Heres the kicker though.
These 10 stores will also feature "Rare" binders with singles. Now the fun part.
The rares cost 2~$ each! And mythics for 4!
No matter what it is! A trade in system of 2 rares for 1 rare and 2 mythics for 1 mythic.
Needless to say ill be lurking around GAME more often! ;D
(Prices roughly translated to dollar from Swedish Crowns)
(Yes our currency is "Crowns")
Very interesting. My store only does this for low value rares/mythics. Trade in value is 50% of the card so all junk rares are 2$, so people bring in stacks of junk for a buck a card, but I'd love that system you get
Next in the news: GAME goes bust.
I think it may be a good idea actually! Many mtg'rs play games and now theres a place where you can get both!
Also the stores will sell Ultra Pro products.
Well I hope this is a test and they will make lots of money on it and bring the idea to UK. I shop with them for XBOX games.
Im still waiting to see pack prices!
Still as I said I'll probably be there to check the binders anyways.
Quote from: KangaRod on February 08, 2013, 06:41:04 PM
That's awesome! Hey, is it true that Sweden is in the process of switching to a cashless money system?
No,not exactly. But the idea has many backers here.
More than in other countries. ;D
Sweden is famous for oppressive taxation, cashless money system makes it more difficult to avoid taxes.
Quote from: Piotr on February 09, 2013, 06:08:18 AM
Sweden is famous for oppressive taxation, cashless money system makes it more difficult to avoid taxes.
I would not call it oppressive but yes we have pretty high taxes compared to other countries.
But i dont really think taxes are the issue here.
The main argument is that cash is only a liability if card payment is available everywhere.
Lots of pro's and con's though.
Quote from: Fenster on February 09, 2013, 08:40:07 AM
Quote from: Piotr on February 09, 2013, 06:08:18 AM
Sweden is famous for oppressive taxation
I would not call it oppressive
What would take to call it oppressive, lol.
Curiosity.
Oh i thought you said "I would call that opressive."
I need to ger my glasses fixed ;D
Well what i think and what actually is can be hard to say.
But what i know is that many people are happy or atleast content with the tax rate. Generally speaking. Ofcourse most rich want lower and some poor think that lower taxes would leave them more money.
But in general most debates are about how the goverment uses the money. Not how much they collect.
Yes I did say oppressive, because that's what I think. I'm curious why you do not think the taxation in Sweden is oppressive, and what would make it oppressive in your eyes.
Why is it oppressive? In general, I find extorting fruits of my work at gunpoint oppressive.
Quote from: Piotr on February 09, 2013, 11:13:53 AM
Why is it oppressive? In general, I find extorting fruits of my work at gunpoint oppressive.
Well living in a country in wich a goverment helps provide a safe society through police, firefighters, healthcare, free education and infrastructure in general comes at a price.
I can still work and make money for myself while being provided with all these things and more. If you dont want this you can move to a country that suits your needs better or opt to change what you dont like by voting.
Quote from: Fenster on February 09, 2013, 11:30:18 AM
Quote from: Piotr on February 09, 2013, 11:13:53 AM
Why is it oppressive? In general, I find extorting fruits of my work at gunpoint oppressive.
Well living in a country in wich a goverment helps provide a safe society through police, firefighters, healthcare, free education and infrastructure in general comes at a price.
I can still work and make money for myself while being provided with all these things and more. If you dont want this you can move to a country that suits your needs better or opt to change what you dont like by voting.
Safe society at a price of 70%+ of my earnings? Highway robbery, my friend. Still, the exact percentage is not important here, the extortion is what makes it oppressive. I didn't ask for 'free' this and that and I don't use it.
No I cannot change it by voting.
Quote from: Piotr on February 09, 2013, 12:18:41 PM
Quote from: Fenster on February 09, 2013, 11:30:18 AM
Quote from: Piotr on February 09, 2013, 11:13:53 AM
Why is it oppressive? In general, I find extorting fruits of my work at gunpoint oppressive.
Well living in a country in wich a goverment helps provide a safe society through police, firefighters, healthcare, free education and infrastructure in general comes at a price.
I can still work and make money for myself while being provided with all these things and more. If you dont want this you can move to a country that suits your needs better or opt to change what you dont like by voting.
Safe society at a price of 70%+ of my earnings? Highway robbery, my friend. Still, the exact percentage is not important here, the extortion is what makes it oppressive. I didn't ask for 'free' this and that and I don't use it.
No I cannot change it by voting.
Well would you rather have privatized everything with 0 taxes?
A privately funded police, no safety net of any kind other than insurance companies.
A goverment composed of only private companies?
An extreme scenario maybe but you know what i mean.
And if you're curious its 30% off wages.
Its lower if you dont reach a certain yearly income. And higher if you have a (very) high yearly income.
Then theres a tax on all wares 25% wich is included in the price. This results in slightly higher prices ofcourse but its basically weighed up by how high wages are. (After taxes even).
Quote from: Fenster on February 09, 2013, 12:30:21 PM
Quote from: Piotr on February 09, 2013, 12:18:41 PM
Quote from: Fenster on February 09, 2013, 11:30:18 AM
Quote from: Piotr on February 09, 2013, 11:13:53 AM
Why is it oppressive? In general, I find extorting fruits of my work at gunpoint oppressive.
Well living in a country in wich a goverment helps provide a safe society through police, firefighters, healthcare, free education and infrastructure in general comes at a price.
I can still work and make money for myself while being provided with all these things and more. If you dont want this you can move to a country that suits your needs better or opt to change what you dont like by voting.
Safe society at a price of 70%+ of my earnings? Highway robbery, my friend. Still, the exact percentage is not important here, the extortion is what makes it oppressive. I didn't ask for 'free' this and that and I don't use it.
No I cannot change it by voting.
Well would you rather have privatized everything with 0 taxes?
A privately funded police, no safety net of any kind other than insurance companies.
A goverment composed of only private companies?
An extreme scenario maybe but you know what i mean.
And if you're curious its 30% off wages.
Its lower if you dont reach a certain yearly income. And higher if you have a (very) high yearly income.
Then theres a tax on all wares 25% wich is included in the price. This results in slightly higher prices ofcourse but its basically weighed up by how high wages are. (After taxes even).
Police can be paid off the land tax. No income taxes are necessary. All the rest cannot be sensibly argued that is common good.
There should be no safety net other than the one you are willing to pay for.
Government of private companies? No, why? I believe the optimal form of government is nomocracy.
No it's not 30%, not even close, but this is probably not the place to explain about all the stealth taxes.
No it is not weighted up by high wages, wages do not come from government. You miss the point that if you didn't have the government such oppressive as you've got, your wages would have tripled.
Quote from: Piotr on February 09, 2013, 12:50:20 PM
Quote from: Fenster on February 09, 2013, 12:30:21 PM
Quote from: Piotr on February 09, 2013, 12:18:41 PM
Quote from: Fenster on February 09, 2013, 11:30:18 AM
Quote from: Piotr on February 09, 2013, 11:13:53 AM
Why is it oppressive? In general, I find extorting fruits of my work at gunpoint oppressive.
Well living in a country in wich a goverment helps provide a safe society through police, firefighters, healthcare, free education and infrastructure in general comes at a price.
I can still work and make money for myself while being provided with all these things and more. If you dont want this you can move to a country that suits your needs better or opt to change what you dont like by voting.
Safe society at a price of 70%+ of my earnings? Highway robbery, my friend. Still, the exact percentage is not important here, the extortion is what makes it oppressive. I didn't ask for 'free' this and that and I don't use it.
No I cannot change it by voting.
Well would you rather have privatized everything with 0 taxes?
A privately funded police, no safety net of any kind other than insurance companies.
A goverment composed of only private companies?
An extreme scenario maybe but you know what i mean.
And if you're curious its 30% off wages.
Its lower if you dont reach a certain yearly income. And higher if you have a (very) high yearly income.
Then theres a tax on all wares 25% wich is included in the price. This results in slightly higher prices ofcourse but its basically weighed up by how high wages are. (After taxes even).
Police can be paid off the land tax. No income taxes are necessary. All the rest cannot be sensibly argued that is common good.
There should be no safety net other than the one you are willing to pay for.
Government of private companies? No, why? I believe the optimal form of government is nomocracy.
No it's not 30%, not even close, but this is probably not the place to explain about all the stealth taxes.
No it is not weighted up by high wages, wages do not come from government. You miss the point that if you didn't have the government such oppressive as you've got, your wages would have tripled.
How come a booster pack costs roughly the same here as in countries with lower, BAT i think its called?
And tripple wage??
Im sorry but you are way off course!
The income tax is at 30%.
Then there are more additional taxes for many things, yes. But "stealth" taxes i have no idea what you're talking about.
I work in a .poopy. job. I have a pre tax pay of 90 Sek per hour. This is minimum wage in my "line of work" (Theater and cinema union. Worst union ever btw...)
30% of that goes away as taxes. The rest i get straight into my hand.
I work very little and my income depends on how much exactly i work but usually i get 7000 Sek after taxes in disposable income on an avarage month. Still taking into account i work little. Now im fine with that and i get around with rent and bills and still have money left over. Sure id have 3000sek more a month without income taxes but what do i have now?
I can read my way up to university level without any extra fees. If i get hurt i have free treatment for my injuries at hospitals.
If i lose my job i get a very low wellfare pay as long as i keep looking for a new job through the goverment funded job finding agency.
Here are some usual arguments i hear.
"Why should you pay tax when you earn enough to pay for these things yourself?"
Yes sure but what if you were in my spot and vice versa? I would still pay my taxes to help you come back and when im in trouble you'd do the same!
"The wellfare system is being abused by many people, taking my money!"
Yes but for every person who cheats 9 other who needs it get back on their feet and can find a place in society again wich will compensate for the loss by this 1 scumbag! (Not to mention the system is always being worked on to prevent these frauds.)
And its not like the money is going down the pockets of our elected officials more than an income based on the work they do.
Its all about ideals. Would you let the poor man fall down the mountain just because it'd let you reach the top sooner?
Im in no way a communist and i believe in a free market but taxes are in my opinion a good thing.
I know what i've said wont sway your opinion. But atleast i hope you see the reasoning behind mine. :)
Oh and i think i realized what you meant by ghost taxes!
I cant say i have much knowledge on the subject but its things like tax on electricity, water etc etc...
I suppose that it can relate to my former arguments.
But yes it is "more expensive" to live in Sweden. In my opinion its worth it however to have a higher quality of life.
Stealth tax is for example when people fail to realise how much tax on wages is paid by employer, without understanding that all of it is actually paid by them.
I had some proper laugh when you swapped 9 with 1 :D
Man, I can stand many lies but claiming that .loving. socialism is effective at what it does is not one of them. It is 9 to 1 not 1 to 9.
You say ideals. Excellent. I believe no goal justifies the means. I believe that 'Forceful extortion of private property is an evil act' is a self evident truth. I believe in Ultimate Law (http://ultimatelaw.org) as the basic ethic and law system of human interaction. These are my ideals which explain why I believe Swedish tax system to be infamously oppressive. Makes sense?
I want to apologize because I got carried away and took it too personal!
Taxes are obligatory wich may be considered a bad thing but in the end it depends on what your goverment does with it. It's hard to accept your money being taken when it doesnt seem to do anything. I dont know how it is in England but now you know how it is in sweden.
And don't say its otherwise because I know it isnt!
I mean you can ask Whitedrake maybe. He's from norway wich is one of the richest countries in the world but is very right wing.
But i think its pretty "succesfull"
I think the swedish tax system has been overexagurated (how the hell do i spell that??)
Take the Danish taxes for example. They have 50% income tax! Sweden has just become an icon in western media due to a strong socialist political background.
When a thug holds a gun to my wife's head and asks for my wallet, is it obligatory to give the wallet to him? Is it obligatory if the thug just threatens to put me in jail instead? I couldn't give a .love. what the thug does with my wallet as I don't believe means are justified by goals. In any case I prefer to educate my children myself, not at my own expense by the thug. I don't believe in the thugs idea of quality of life either.
Even Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Sweden) says your tax on wages is 48% but some stealth taxes are more difficult to prove.
Discussing .politics. is my lifelong hobby, please do not take it personal at all ;)
Quote from: Piotr on February 09, 2013, 02:17:40 PM
When a thug holds a gun to my wife's head and asks for my wallet, is it obligatory to give the wallet to him? Is it obligatory if the thug just threatens to put me in jail instead? I couldn't give a .love. what the thug does with my wallet as I don't believe means are justified by goals. In any case I prefer to educate my children myself, not at my own expense by the thug. I don't believe in the thugs idea of quality of life either.
Even Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Sweden) says your tax on wages is 48% but some stealth taxes are more difficult to prove.
Discussing .politics. is my lifelong hobby, please do not take it personal at all ;)
Ok wikipedia, not the most accurate source.
But i did look around and after you've earned 330000 sek (yearly) you get an increased tax ob everything you earn after to 50%
So it is possible that the 48% is the avrage wich sounds about right.
Also the gunpoint analogy (i really hope thats the word) is pretty flawed.
You're not forced in any way. It just happens.
You get a job, pay is 100 sek a month (theoretically) then you get 70 at pay day.
And it says in your Payment Specification paper how much you got before and after taxes.
Its not like you get 100 and then a bill for 30 that says "Tax bill".
How about this for a visual comparrison! ;D
Every day after work you give this guy named "Gov" 30% of your pay. You dont like it. You could use that money. But Gov demands it anyways. Now one day you hurt your leg but Guv gives you the money to get it fixed.
Thanks i guess but i would have had that money anyways if you hadnt taken it!
The day after that you follow Gov after you've paid him and you notice that the money you gave him he uses to help ol' homless Joe to get a house! Jobless Sue to get employed! And that crack in the road on Mainstreet. He even puts money in your childrens college fund!
Although some of the money is lost too a strong wind, in the end it did a lot of good.
Yes money is lost to fraud and cheaters.
And some goverment programs are just completely uneccesary. But before you go and claim that its 1 helped for every 9 swindler id like you to back that up with facts. I live here and my family and friends live here. Never have i heard them say that the frauds outnumber the real victims! Even the ones that argue against high taxes!
So check your facts before you pull them out of your bottom.
Quote from: Fenster on February 09, 2013, 02:24:02 PM
Quote from: Piotr on February 09, 2013, 02:17:40 PM
When a thug holds a gun to my wife's head and asks for my wallet, is it obligatory to give the wallet to him? Is it obligatory if the thug just threatens to put me in jail instead? I couldn't give a .love. what the thug does with my wallet as I don't believe means are justified by goals. In any case I prefer to educate my children myself, not at my own expense by the thug. I don't believe in the thugs idea of quality of life either.
Even Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Sweden) says your tax on wages is 48% but some stealth taxes are more difficult to prove.
Discussing .politics. is my lifelong hobby, please do not take it personal at all ;)
Ok wikipedia, not the most accurate source.
But i did look around and after you've earned 330000 sek (yearly) you get an increased tax ob everything you earn after to 50%
So it is possible that the 48% is the avrage wich sounds about right.
Also the gunpoint analogy (i really hope thats the word) is pretty flawed.
You're not forced in any way. It just happens.
You get a job, pay is 100 sek a m
Yes Wikipedia has a left bias, not a reliable source at all, but they cannot cheat on math. You still fail to understand that 'social contributions' paid by employers is tax on your wages. Or do you believe that if I call you stupid it makes you somehow less intelligent? ;)
It just happens? Explain the logic please. Again, if I say 'it just happens' doesn't magically change it from 'private property extortion' to, hmm, what exactly? If I refuse to pay this extortion called tax, there will be government coming over to my house to forcefully seize my property. True or false?
I accidentally hit post before i was done ;D
Oh and that social contribution is added above my pay. My employer pays my wage per my contract then an additional "Employer fee" straight to the goverment. I never see this money but its not deducted from my wage.
This is a fact.
Another fact is that this fee is very low however.
Quote from: Fenster on February 09, 2013, 02:24:02 PM
Yes money is lost to fraud and cheaters.
And some goverment programs are just completely uneccesary. But before you go and claim that its 1 helped for every 9 swindler id like you to back that up with facts. I live here and my family and friends live here. Never have i heard them say that the frauds outnumber the real victims! Even the ones that argue against high taxes!
So check your facts before you pull them out of your bottom.
Why of course you will never hear them tell that! You have to pull your head out of their bottom and start looking for yourself, man :D
Do you agree that goal justify the means?
Not always.
But in this case yes i do!
Theres always room for improvment with everything goverment related but this works!
Its not blind comunism its proven statistics!
It doesnt work everywhere but it DOES work here! In Sweden.
And i meant that its statistically proven that its less frauds than victims. If you keep saying its not bring then me the evidence thats not wikipedia or bbc/cnn/fox.
Quote from: Fenster on February 09, 2013, 02:58:41 PM
Oh and that social contribution is added above my pay. My employer pays my wage per my contract then an additional "Employer fee" straight to the goverment. I never see this money but its not deducted from my wage.
This is a fact.
Another fact is that this fee is very low however.
I've seen people banned on this forum for lying, so be very careful.
Taxes on wages do include stealth taxation called in Sweden 'social security contributions' (for the employer the cost of labour is the total cost including all the taxes, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payroll_tax). 'Social security contributions' taxes in Sweden are above 30% which is not very low (self evident).
Claiming something which isn't a fact to be a fact is lying, fair enough?
Before we do something any of us regrets.
I would never lie. And if you've seen my posts before you know im very keen of not breaking the rules of YOUR forum.
Im not really sure what this Social contribution is. What thought you meant was said employer fee but it seems its not. However you're again quoting wikipedia but maybe im actually being duped by my "Friend Gov".
Right now i just feel lost in translation since whatever that is is obviiusly not called "Social contribution" on my tax papers.
Quote from: Fenster on February 09, 2013, 03:08:33 PM
Not always.
But in this case yes i do!
When Kali was asked what is evil, Kali said that if a neighbour takes a cow from Kali this is evil.
When Kali was asked what is good, Kali said that if Kali takes a cow from a neighbour it is good.
When you ask me what I think about morals based on 'goal justifies the means', I say to hell with that kind of morals. My ethics are simple, there's no room for 'not always'. BE a good person, not ifs and .loving. buts. There's no goal which justifies robbery, and the fact that the goal is forcing me into state controlled version of happiness just makes it all more laughable.
Quote from: Fenster on February 09, 2013, 03:08:33 PM
And i meant that its statistically proven that its less frauds than victims. If you keep saying its not bring then me the evidence thats not wikipedia or bbc/cnn/fox.
No it isn't proven because you cannot prove it. All you can do is to claim it, and I can claim the opposite. I believe I'm closer to the truth here. I've seen a lot of .poo. in my life and I know the inner workings of socialism, the damage it does.
Quote from: Fenster on February 09, 2013, 03:18:51 PM
Im not really sure what this Social contribution is. What thought you meant was said employer fee but it seems its not. However you're again quoting wikipedia but maybe im actually being duped by my "Friend Gov".
Right now i just feel lost in translation since whatever that is is obviiusly not called "Social contribution" on my tax papers.
If you read the Wikipedia page it should become quite obvious.
The number of people employed by the job finding agency heavily outweighs the number of people that stay on the wellfare.
Same with people that have health issues and get wellfare until they get better. More people go back to work than the amount that stays on wellfare until they actually retire.
Quote from: Fenster on February 09, 2013, 03:15:37 PM
Before we do something any of us regrets.
I would never lie. And if you've seen my posts before you know im very keen of not breaking the rules of YOUR forum.
Is claiming that untrue statement is a fact lying? Yes.
Can I prove that you claimed something to be untrue as a fact? I just did.
Is punishment mandatory? No, you need a victim ;]
Quote from: Fenster on February 09, 2013, 03:29:16 PM
The number of people employed by the job finding agency heavily outweighs the number of people that stay on the wellfare.
Same with people that have health issues and get wellfare until they get better. More people go back to work than the amount that stays on wellfare until they actually retire.
Would it be the same if not for government interference in the job market? No, 9 of 10 of the unemployed people now on benefits would be working.
Would the sick people die if not for the government interference in the medical services market? No, their savings and private insurances and families and charities and last but not least the technology lost because of socialisms' inefficiency would save them.
I have read the article and im ready to respond i just want to know we're not posting over eachothers heads anymore :)
So tell me when i can go :)
Ready when you are ;)
This is the 30% with an increase to 50% after 330000sek tax i was talking about. Its always cut from your wage and it says so in your monthly payment documents:
"The first kind are taxes that employers are required to withhold from employees' wages, also known as withholding tax, pay-as-you-earn tax (PAYE), or pay-as-you-go tax (PAYG) and often covering advance payment of income tax, social security contributions, and various insurances (e.g., unemployment and disability)."
Second post coming soon.
And this is the "Employer fee" i was talking about: "The second kind is a tax that is paid from the employer's own funds and that is directly related to employing a worker. These can consist of fixed charges or be proportionally linked to an employee's pay. The charges paid by the employer usually cover the employer's funding of the social security system, and other insurance programs."
I cant say exactly how high or low the second part "employer fee" is. I just know that everyone agrees on that it covers very little once you get it back. Your pension for example. Unless you invest personally this is where it comes from. And it usually is pretty slim unless you're a ceo etc... Or you've had a private pension savings account going.
It is oppressive because it forces me to do something against my will. Notice how incompatible this whole idea of taxation is with iMtG Law.
Quote from: Piotr on February 09, 2013, 06:02:13 PM
It is oppressive because it forces me to do something against my will. Notice how incompatible this whole idea of taxation is with iMtG Law.
Well yeah. I get that. But arent you forced to do many things against your will?
If you want to be completely free you need to be able to live on by your own hand. Grow your own food. Build your own house. Heal your own wounds. But society doesnt work this way.
In society each brings his own end to the table then everyone shares. Now not everyone gets the same size portion. Not by far. The way the modern tax system works is that it forces the people around the table to share a little bit more equal. That way everyone gets better. And can bring more food to the table next time.
And this does work. If it didnt it wouldnt be present in nearly every democratic country in the world.
A goverment cant exist without this system.
The useage of the system differs from country to country. In some places its abused. In some it works really well. Say whatever you want about Swedens tax rates. But Its still a .loving. amazing place to live. And im honored and glad to be able to give back to my country and my fellow countrymen this way.
Its nor perfect. Its not fair. Is it the best way to deal with society right now in our time?
I would say it is.
You would sat its not.
Oppressive? No. You dont have to work and earn money and pay taxes. Feel free to sustain yourself without a goverments support. Its not illegal.
Obligatory if you want to live the way we do? Yes. I can't see it working any other way.
But i am maybe being narrow minded. And i feel we've strayed too far from the original subject.
I want to end with saying its been fun and healthy to have this discussion with you.
And i have gained a new perspective on things i didnt have before :)
I hope i have not offended.
Quote from: Fenster on February 09, 2013, 06:19:50 PM
Quote from: Piotr on February 09, 2013, 06:02:13 PM
It is oppressive because it forces me to do something against my will. Notice how incompatible this whole idea of taxation is with iMtG Law.
Well yeah. I get that. But arent you forced to do many things against your will?
If you want to be completely free you need to be able to live on by your own hand. Grow your own food. Build your own house. Heal your own wounds. But society doesnt work this way.
What has freedom to do with that? I'm arguing ethics here. In society you obtain things in exchange for your services, or you forcefully take things from others against their will.
Quote from: Fenster on February 09, 2013, 06:19:50 PM
In society each brings his own end to the table then everyone shares. Now not everyone gets the same size portion. Not by far. The way the modern tax system works is that it forces the people around the table to share a little bit more equal. That way everyone gets better. And can bring more food to the table next time.
And this does work. If it didnt it wouldnt be present in nearly every democratic country in the world.
You don't prove right or wrong in ethics by voting. The tyranny of democracy is this: 'this does work' for the two wolves but not for the sheep, when they get to vote what's for dinner.
Quote from: Fenster on February 09, 2013, 06:19:50 PM
Oppressive? No. You dont have to work and earn money and pay taxes. Feel free to sustain yourself without a goverments support. Its not illegal.
Unfortunately it is illegal, hence the tax system is oppressive.
Quote from: Fenster on February 09, 2013, 06:19:50 PM
I want to end with saying its been fun and healthy to have this discussion with you.
And i have gained a new perspective on things i didnt have before :)
I hope i have not offended.
Ditto ;)