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Magic (The Gathering) => Rules => Topic started by: cltrn81 on February 09, 2012, 07:18:08 PM

Title: Undying Image
Post by: cltrn81 on February 09, 2012, 07:18:08 PM
Ok, I copy {strangleroot Geist} with {phantasmal image} my image dies....he should come back in play as any target I chose with +1/1 counter from undying right?
Title: Re: Undying Image
Post by: Rass on February 09, 2012, 07:41:51 PM
It almost sounds like it can come back as a copy as something else but will have the +1 on it that's just how I read it.
Title: Re: Undying Image
Post by: Shivix on February 09, 2012, 08:08:38 PM
Once the image is in play, it is basically the Geist and no longer an image so It would come back as a Geist with the counter on it
Title: Re: Undying Image
Post by: Mentonin on February 09, 2012, 08:55:31 PM
Quote from: Shivix on February 09, 2012, 08:08:38 PM
Once the image is in play, it is basically the Geist and no longer an image so It would come back as a Geist with the counter on it
But then it goes out of the battlefield, then enters again, triggering its effect. So, yes, a copy of anything on the field + the counter
Title: Re: Undying Image
Post by: Rass on February 09, 2012, 09:14:30 PM
Can we get a ruleing
Title: Re: Undying Image
Post by: Thattallguy on February 09, 2012, 09:44:50 PM
I believe it would come back as whatever it copied initially. It no longer has the abilities of the phantasmal image so it would not be able to copy anything else. That makes the most logical sense to me. I don't see how it could copy something else and get a counter. That seems pretty broke to me.
Title: Re: Undying Image
Post by: Rass on February 09, 2012, 10:16:00 PM
Broke cards in magic no way...........

Because the card says when it enters the battle field. And with undying it hits the graveyard then it comes back with the plus one then it gets when it enters the battlefield it copies. That's why I think you can choose sometime new to copy
Title: Re: Undying Image
Post by: cltrn81 on February 09, 2012, 10:25:54 PM
Quote from: Rass on February 09, 2012, 10:16:00 PM
Broke cards in magic no way...........

Because the card says when it enters the battle field. And with undying it hits the graveyard then it comes back with the plus one then it gets when it enters the battlefield it copies. That's why I think you can choose sometime new to copy

Me thinks so 2 :))
Title: Re: Undying Image
Post by: Wally on February 09, 2012, 11:07:33 PM
Quote from: Mentonin on February 09, 2012, 08:55:31 PM
Quote from: Shivix on February 09, 2012, 08:08:38 PM
Once the image is in play, it is basically the Geist and no longer an image so It would come back as a Geist with the counter on it
But then it goes out of the battlefield, then enters again, triggering its effect. So, yes, a copy of anything on the field + the counter

No he is right, it will enter the battlefield initially as the Geist (because you chose to copy that - I not it enters as a 0/0 and leaves straight away)
It will no longer be the phantasimal image card, therefore no longer having its original 'enters the battlefield' abilities.
Now that that part is clear, the rest is simple, it's a geist with undying, it dies and comes back as a Geist with a 1/1 counter on it.
If you are still unclear, read rule 706 (all of it) and you should have a better idea of the mechanics of copying/cloning/creating an image of something.
Hope that helps.
Title: Re: Undying Image
Post by: BlackJester on February 09, 2012, 11:30:47 PM
1) creature with undying goes to gy
2) undying ability triggers and goes on the stack
3) undying asks if the creature had any +1/+1 counters on it. No, so it brings that creature back to the bf (battlefield, no boyfriend).
4) when a creature moves to a diff zone (gy) it loses connection to its "past self" and comes back "as printed". The image can copy anything and now has a +1/+1 counter.
ðŸ"¨ My ruling, fwiw
Title: Re: Undying Image
Post by: BlackJester on February 09, 2012, 11:39:42 PM
If you like a rule to point to:
CR400.7. An object that moves from one zone to another becomes a new object with no memory of, or relation to, its previous existence. There are seven exceptions to this rule:

You can check the exceptions yourself, but I'll tell you that none of them apply here.
Title: Re: Undying Image
Post by: JakeyWakey on February 10, 2012, 12:33:21 AM
So what would happen if you target any illusion with {undying evil}?
Title: Re: Undying Image
Post by: Rass on February 10, 2012, 12:41:07 AM
Yay me
Title: Re: Undying Image
Post by: Rass on February 10, 2012, 12:43:32 AM
Quote from: JakeyWakey on February 10, 2012, 12:33:21 AM
So what would happen if you target any illusion with {undying evil}?

You would kill it before it got undying Brcause you targeted it
Title: Re: Undying Image
Post by: JakeyWakey on February 10, 2012, 12:49:59 AM
So spells that target illusions don't resolve? They are sacrificed just I response to being tArgeted?
Title: Re: Undying Image
Post by: BlackJester on February 10, 2012, 12:52:39 AM
Quote from: JakeyWakey on February 10, 2012, 12:49:59 AM
So spells that target illusions don't resolve? They are sacrificed just I response to being tArgeted?

Bingo was his name-o.

(and by that I mean yes.  and by yes I mean "the illusions with the "sac when targetted" ability")
Title: Re: Undying Image
Post by: JakeyWakey on February 10, 2012, 10:39:54 AM
What of the spell is countered, what if it is redirected?
Title: Re: Undying Image
Post by: BlackJester on February 10, 2012, 11:00:09 AM
It doesn't matter because as soon as the spell/ability targetting the illusion is put on the stack, the illusion's ability will trigger and get put on the stack on top.  You could {Stiffle} or counter the illusion's ability.
Title: Re: Undying Image
Post by: Rass on February 10, 2012, 05:29:43 PM
Unless you have that guy that protects illussions
Title: Re: Undying Image
Post by: BlackJester on February 10, 2012, 05:40:55 PM
True, if {Lord of the Unreal} was in play, they couldn't target it in the first place.
Title: Re: Undying Image
Post by: Rass on February 10, 2012, 07:10:19 PM
If it was their creature they could
Title: Re: Undying Image
Post by: BlackJester on February 10, 2012, 07:19:38 PM
Complementary Combo:

{Phantasmal Dragon} + {Swiftfoot Boots} + {Sundial of the Infinite}
or
Illusion + equipment + 'Dial
Yep, another practical use for the 'dial.   ;D