After much deliberation I have chosen Orzhov for the first prerelease flight and likely will stick to it for all 3-5 events I am doing this weekend.
First reason: Life
In constructed card advantage and mana are often the most important resources, however in limited life is signifigantly more important. Limited matches are won (95% of the time) by dudes bashing away at the opponent. Not because those dudes are strong, well supported, or have special abilities. They win because that is the way limited goes, you don't have access to all the answers usually found in constructed and can usually only stop one or two dudes by any means other than combat. This brings me back to life. The absurd amount of life gain (and drain) is perfect for surviving these long wars of attrition and for anyone who has piloted an aggro deck into a {rhox faithmender}, you know the sheer power a lifelinker with a big butt has to sway the game away from being quick by any stretch of the imagination.
Second: creatures
While boros, gruul, and simic take advatage of this quality to a greater extent, orzhov exploits each of their weaknesses very efficiently. Boros has the power of numbers and ridiculous buffs, however those buffs depend on maintaining a large amount of creatures that are combat worthy. With the perfect pool, boros beats all other guilds hands down. That being said, orzhov has a higher probability of being able to keep their creature count down than boros has of pulling enough exceptional dudes to make battalion really shine. Gruuls combat tricks are amazing, but severely hurt one of the fundamental resources, card advantage. Having access to kill spells and abilities will turn an oversized near lethal threat into a two or more card sink that I just answered with one card. Simic is a fun one. Everyone is all hyped up about this amazing mechanic, but they seem to over look a fundemental flaw in it's design; people. In the short time allotted to construct you deck out of a limited pool of cards the likelyhood of amassing the correct ratio of high and low power dudes to make the mechanic effective is very slim. We are going to see a lot of simic creatures with a +1/+1 counter on then...that's it, just one. Maybe two or three dudes will see a second counter per game. By the time a creature evolves once it is already bigger than most of the simic card pool found in limited. Orzhov can simply kill the few big dudes, overpower the small dudes, or erase their damage with lifegain. Orzhov creatures are resiliant and/or backed by powerful abilities.
Third: the {Treasury Thrull}
SO GOOD IN LIMITED!! How many times have you looked in your graveyard to see the answer for whatever you are facing and remembered this is non-innistrad limited and the graveyard is a place cards go to curl up and die as the world goes on without them. He grabs your game winning (big or small) dudes back and has that wonderful attrition mechanic, extort, strapped to him like a candy bar from an impulse buy in the last moments of R&D. 4/4 is pretty beastly as well, even better with {Gift of Orzhova} (a likely pull for a orzhov guild pack). Which can be used early and brought back with the thrull later to beef him up. Pull a second thrull and watch as your opponents crumple under your ridiculous card advantage, it's like {Sun Titan} + {Phantasmal Image} minus the table flipping rage quits.
Finally: splashing
Orzhov splashes any color beautifully. Weakest to strongest: Green gives some pump and helps with mana, but the cool part here is that orzhov dudes have large enough backsides to actually trigger evolve consistantly. Red grants extra burn and kill as well as some decent pumps for your lifelink dudes and creatures with crazy effects ({High Priest of Penance} im looking at you). The thrull also cupples well with the hit it an quit it mentality of red, bringing them back for another hit. Blue...blue...blue. When is blue not amazing (oh yea, mono color, mill, without good counters)? The dimir orzhov combo of kill and keep killing, maintain life as you lose your mind (milling cards), unblockable (brace yourself....) cipher encoded dudes with multiple instances of extort for every free cast! Need I say more?
Great points! My friend and I were just discussing the strengths and weaknesses of each guild, and how they stacked up to other guilds. Orzhov looks solid, sine they can control creaturess very easily, which is going to be important, as each guild is pretty reliant on their creatures. Never thought of life as such an important resources in these prereleases. Orzhov seems even better than I had thought after reading this.
Then bam boros happens and indestructible lightning helix attackers happen
Quote from: Fenster on January 24, 2013, 06:52:48 AM
Then bam boros happens and indestructible lightning helix attackers happen
Not with {One Thousand Lashes} 😏
Take that, Battalion! But of course, all answers have answers that have answers, etc.
Simic has lots of creatures built like {kraken hatchling} though. Were one stat is rediculously higher than the other. So I think it is possible to consistently trigger evolve in the format. Also, there is an Aura were it gives a creature -1/-1 and you can pay a cost to bounce it back to your hand. So just stick that on one of the evolve creatures play a bigger creature and bounce the aura back to your hand. Also, bioshift let's you move counters around so you can reset evolve. Plus, it has blue which has counter, flicker and bounce. You can move plus one plus one counters around. And there are creatures that give your creatures with plus one plus one counters abilities like flying. Don't underestimate simic or else your goIng to have your arse handed to you by them
Quote from: Birdbrain on January 24, 2013, 07:06:47 AM
Simic has lots of creatures built like {kraken hatchling} though. Were one stat is rediculously higher than the other. So I think it is possible to consistently trigger evolve in the format. Also, there is an Aura were it gives a creature -1/-1 and you can pay a cost to bounce it back to your hand. So just stick that on one of the evolve creatures play a bigger creature and bounce the aura back to your hand. Also, bioshift let's you move counters around so you can reset evolve. Plus, it has blue which has counter, flicker and bounce. You can move plus one plus one counters around. And there are creatures that give your creatures with plus one plus one counters abilities like flying. Don't underestimate simic or else your goIng to have your arse handed to you by them
I think what Kaleo was getting at was the whole deck construction part. Simic has great cards, no doubt, but its a deck that takes a lot of planning. You need to find the right balance of creatures (high p/t and low p/t) in order for it to be really effective. This requires a good deal of time, play testing, and resources. These three things aren't readily available in limited formats like this. Now, that's not to say someone couldn't get lucky, but its going to be pretty difficult to get exactly what you need for any guild, and Simic is very reliant on having certain cards to make it effective. That's the way I see it. Who knows, I could be off, but it makes sense to me. The prerelease will be the judge, I suppose.
Quote from: Keyeto on January 24, 2013, 06:59:06 AM
Quote from: Fenster on January 24, 2013, 06:52:48 AM
Then bam boros happens and indestructible lightning helix attackers happen
Not with {One Thousand Lashes} 😏
Take that, Battalion! But of course, all answers have answers that have answers, etc.
The battalion and Angels seem pretty solid...especially {Angelic Skirmisher} who can change from vigilance to likelink to first strike for all blockers and attackers each battle step. Granted she is a six drop but could easily be a set up to Aurelia. First swing, first strike, second vigilance or likelink as needed...just saying
Quote from: Stoneco1d869 on January 24, 2013, 07:20:49 AM
Quote from: Keyeto on January 24, 2013, 06:59:06 AM
Quote from: Fenster on January 24, 2013, 06:52:48 AM
Then bam boros happens and indestructible lightning helix attackers happen
Not with {One Thousand Lashes} 😏
Take that, Battalion! But of course, all answers have answers that have answers, etc.
The battalion and Angels seem pretty solid...especially {Angelic Skirmisher} who can change from vigilance to likelink to first strike for all blockers and attackers each battle step. Granted she is a six drop but could easily be a set up to Aurelia. First swing, first strike, second vigilance or likelink as needed...just saying
True, the skirmisher is a nice, versatile card. Whoever pulls it is probably going to do pretty well. There's a decent amount of removal though, but I'll agree that it's a card that can get out of hand if not dealt with. And don't forget; Orzhov can use it too!
Quote from: Keyeto on January 24, 2013, 07:15:44 AM
Quote from: Birdbrain on January 24, 2013, 07:06:47 AM
Simic has lots of creatures built like {kraken hatchling} though. Were one stat is rediculously higher than the other. So I think it is possible to consistently trigger evolve in the format. Also, there is an Aura were it gives a creature -1/-1 and you can pay a cost to bounce it back to your hand. So just stick that on one of the evolve creatures play a bigger creature and bounce the aura back to your hand. Also, bioshift let's you move counters around so you can reset evolve. Plus, it has blue which has counter, flicker and bounce. You can move plus one plus one counters around. And there are creatures that give your creatures with plus one plus one counters abilities like flying. Don't underestimate simic or else your goIng to have your arse handed to you by them
I think what Kaleo was getting at was the whole deck construction part. Simic has great cards, no doubt, but its a deck that takes a lot of planning. You need to find the right balance of creatures (high p/t and low p/t) in order for it to be really effective. This requires a good deal of time, play testing, and resources. These three things aren't readily available in limited formats like this. Now, that's not to say someone couldn't get lucky, but its going to be pretty difficult to get exactly what you need for any guild, and Simic is very reliant on having certain cards to make it effective. That's the way I see it. Who knows, I could be off, but it makes sense to me. The prerelease will be the judge, I suppose.
The simic intro pack has been spoiled. So one can get a rough idea of the right balance from that
Also. The evolve creatures themselves have one stat much higher than the other. Well some of them do
Orzhov all the way I build a deck around the ghost council card it will be fun
Everything said so far has been true, however remember one very important thing; probability. In limited you can not make your choices based on the rares that exist, only the rares that you're lucky enough to pull. Generally youll end up with 6 rares with the occasional foil rare. 2-4 of them will be playable in the same deck, 1-2 of them will be the cards you actually want to play, and 0-1 will be the what you hoped you'd pull (to play limited with, not talking trading or constructed here). Simic will change the face of constructed, but reminds me of izzet in limited: an extremely powerful set of cards available that is difficult to acquire in the combination to be truly effective. Boros I actually fear, which is why my teammate will be playing boros (or gruul and splashing whichever of the two he doesn't pick). However the power of that guild is in the rares and uncommons which cant be counted on during initial limited planning. Commons make a deck, uncommons make a win, and rares seal your victory (mythics generally just make people jealous). Look back on whatever your choices are and look strictly at the commons and decide if that is still your choice. Once you've decided or at least limited your choices that's when you look at the uncommons to make the final decision.
Remember, it's only ONE guild pack you get. The rest of your packs will not be alligned to any guild. So instead of asking yourself, "what guild should I be at the prerelease?", ask yourself: "what 3 colors would I be most comfortable running?" Then look at the guilds. See which has better utility commons. The guild that a) is 2 of your 3 colors, and b) has the best utility cards, will be the guild that you pick. The guild pack will contain what may be your core utility cards (removal, draw, couter, etc.), so even if you want to be boros, yet you are ok with splashing black, choose the orzhov guild pack and build a boros deck, if orzhv seems to have more of the removal you need.
I had already signed up for simic. Though this is very helpfull advice. Thank you. +1 karma
Quote from: Birdbrain on January 24, 2013, 04:58:26 PM
I had already signed up for simic. Though this is very helpfull advice. Thank you. +1 karma
SIMIC!!!!!!! Awweeee yeah 💙💚
There are two reasons to do a prerelease, just have fun and get to know the cards, or win and save a lot of money on buying the cards you need for what you want to play.
I'm going to win...rawr! :)
I'm going to try and make it to the second round, gotta top 8 to move on. I constantly come in 9th out of 50ish. It's so agrivating.
Me and my teammate take prerelease very seriously in our planning and research, but keep it toned down during play unless we run up against someone being overly serious in which case we bust out our GP play styles and blow them out. We're their to win packs so we dont have to spend any more money on sealed product, but we remember that most people are their for fun and are happy to have small talk and fun games at the table. We take the construction part where other people aren't involved super seriously so that we can relax during play yet still consistantly top 8.
I was right...everything I said rang true at my prerelease. I bled my opponents and fast! Simic couldnt measure up cause I didnt need combat to drain their life and 2/3 fliers werent a problem. They couldnt evolve fast enough or effective enough. Didnt see a dimir make it anywhere. Gruul was a adverage performer from what I saw. Boros and orzhov at the top. {Vizkopa Guildmage} made for some amazing interactions with {Boros Reckoner} and {Devour Flesh}. That second ability freaking kills.
So I shouldn't count on evolve as my main route to victory. Got it
Just out of curiosity. Did any of the simic people draft {kraken hatchling}? That seems like it would have been a smart move on there part. It's a beast with simic cards
Personally. I hope to get {kraken hatchling} most out of any of the cards. Then I'll fill my deck with lots of high powe low toughness cards. And hopefully that will be enough. Wish me luck, the event starts in two hours in my town
Hatchling isnt in gatecrash...
It's in the 2013 set. And when my friend bought a golgari event deck he pulled a {thragtusk}. Which isn't in return to ravnica
Dang...well. Guess I shouldn't rely on evolve for my main victory condition then. Lol
Yup, pulling multiples of that card won matches. That being said, {smite} and other removal in Orzhov (especially when combined with Boros) made short work of those stupid over powered dorks. Everything I said rang true in the three prereleases I did today. I went 4-1, 4-1, and 3-2.
The first one had a poor pool but I made it work.
The second one had everything I could ask for and I only lost because of the worlds worst possible draws and opponent's top decks. He is a really good player and we looked at eachother's decks and agreed that I should've won hands down, but he hit everything he could ask for from his crappy pool and I missed many land drops out of otherwise keepable hands.
The last one I got literally three cards with the word "extort" on them including the promo. I didn't get enough of anything else to build something good so I was stuck with a bad white weenie deck that splashed black and red cause I didn't have enough weenies.
I'll post our trade spoils and pulls in my binder tomorrow.
I went 5-2 with Simic, Round 1 got blown out by a janky Boros deck with stupid top decks, this guy was running 60 cards... It was unbelievable luck, he curved out perfect both games. Second round I had am extremely good match against my buddy who was running Orzhov, game 3 I dealt 20 damage and he ended with 20 life v.v lol. The other 5 rounds I just outplayed everyone else, some games were super grindy but I held back when I should have and never over extended. My pull was really good though. I also figured out that {Ooze Flux} + {Evasive Krasis} is a really dumb combo.
I would love to build a deck around {Ooze Flux} but it's so costly, 4 mana in constructed seems kinda meh. Idk.
Quote from: Kaleo42 on January 27, 2013, 04:20:29 AM
Yup, pulling multiples of that card won matches. That being said, {smite} and other removal in Orzhov (especially when combined with Boros) made short work of those stupid over powered dorks. Everything I said rang true in the three prereleases I did today. I went 4-1, 4-1, and 3-2.
The first one had a poor pool but I made it work.
The second one had everything I could ask for and I only lost because of the worlds worst possible draws and opponent's top decks. He is a really good player and we looked at eachother's decks and agreed that I should've won hands down, but he hit everything he could ask for from his crappy pool and I missed many land drops out of otherwise keepable hands.
The last one I got literally three cards with the word "extort" on them including the promo. I didn't get enough of anything else to build something good so I was stuck with a bad white weenie deck that splashed black and red cause I didn't have enough weenies.
I'll post our trade spoils and pulls in my binder tomorrow.
I had the same thing for my third sealed, picked Gruul thinking smash face. Magic gods said no. Out of the box only 3, including promo, had Bloodrush... So frustrating!