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Magic (The Gathering) => Rules => Topic started by: prayos on January 23, 2013, 09:25:02 PM

Title: Nevermore
Post by: prayos on January 23, 2013, 09:25:02 PM
If my opponent plays this, am I obligated to tell him he didn't say the name right?  Case in point, I know he meant  {Invisible Stalker}, but he said Invisible Walker.  Also, since this has an affect on the game, is he allowed to ask a random person a question like "What's the name of the 1/1 hexproof unblockable guy?" after he's played {Nevermore}?
Title: Re: Nevermore
Post by: Keyeto on January 23, 2013, 09:32:00 PM
This all really comes down to the playgroup. If you want to call them on it, then you can. Whatever they name can't be played, so if they don't name the card, it's technically good to go. When this happens to me, I usually cut them some slack and correct them. As far as I'm concerned, if I know what they meant, then that's good enough.
Title: Re: Nevermore
Post by: prayos on January 23, 2013, 09:39:46 PM
I meant this in more of a tournament setting.
Title: Re: Nevermore
Post by: Keyeto on January 23, 2013, 09:43:00 PM
You are allowed to ask the judge for the details of a card, as long as you can describe it in a way the uniquely identifies it. The judge has to be able to know exactly the card you're talking about. So for {Invisible Stalker} saying "what's that 1/1 blue creature?" Wouldn't be enough. Asking the judge "what's the 1/1 blue hexproof unblockable creature" would be much better and the judge should answer.

RESOLVED
Title: Re: Nevermore
Post by: Kaleo42 on January 23, 2013, 09:46:40 PM
I would also add that you dont not have to answer questions about what is in your deck, but you may be expected to answer questions about cards in general based on the judge.
Title: Re: Nevermore
Post by: scarsabrex on January 23, 2013, 11:02:54 PM
Quote from: prayos on January 23, 2013, 09:25:02 PM
If my opponent plays this, am I obligated to tell him he didn't say the name right?  Case in point, I know he meant  {Invisible Stalker}, but he said Invisible Walker.  Also, since this has an affect on the game, is he allowed to ask a random person a question like "What's the name of the 1/1 hexproof unblockable guy?" after he's played {Nevermore}?

For all "name a card" cards you must name a card that can legally be played in that format. So even if he got it wrong it would be illegal to continue further until he named a legal card.
Title: Re: Nevermore
Post by: prayos on January 23, 2013, 11:04:24 PM
But if I know he named a card that doesn't exist?  And I understand asking a judge, but what about asking his friend behind him?
Title: Re: Nevermore
Post by: scarsabrex on January 23, 2013, 11:11:24 PM
Quote from: prayos on January 23, 2013, 11:04:24 PM
But if I know he named a card that doesn't exist?  And I understand asking a judge, but what about asking his friend behind him?

Yeah it'd be encouraged you point it out unless you'd rather a rewind happen later that works against your favor. And not sure how competitive the setting you're playing in is.
Title: Re: Nevermore
Post by: Coffee Vampire on January 23, 2013, 11:30:57 PM
Even at FNM, it is a spectator's job to remain silent. You may not ask a spectaror for anything. Ask the judge.

In terms of if you are allowed to ask a judge what the name of a card is, look at this, near the end. Taken from the tournament rule book:
---
3.5 Card Interpretation
The official text of the card is the OracleTM text corresponding to the name of the card. Players have the right to request access to the official wording of a card only if they can uniquely identify that card, although the card does not necessarily have to be identified by name. That request will be honored if logistically possible.
---
However at a high level tournament, judges are not encouraged to communicate anything but FREE knowledge to players. A name of a card not in a zone that makes the contents of the card common knowledge (battlefield, graveyard, etc.) is not considered to be free knowledge. I think the term for it is derived knowledge.

Edit: OH and you are absolutely not allowed to use electronic devices to do anything but display common knowledge (like life totals). You may make phone calls if your opponent is ok with it, and if you are not trying to obtain outside help.

Edit again: ALSO I would really like someone to confirm all this. Someone who has been to FNMs AND high level tournaments! I have not been to any hgh level events, so while it is useful to read up on tourney rules, from what I read and hear it really matters who the head judge is.
Title: Re: Nevermore
Post by: scarsabrex on January 23, 2013, 11:34:09 PM
Oh and along the lines of looking for cards along that line, you may"name" a card by describing it accurately.
Title: Re: Nevermore
Post by: Kaleo42 on January 24, 2013, 12:40:14 AM
Good job Coffee, everything you said is very true. The head judge does change the tourney a lot. While all rules are to be followed appropriately, the head judge has the power to decide how to handle misplays, rule infractions, and misconduct (even of spectators). Just like how in a court you would change your presentation of your case to better apeal to the judge and jury (lower level judges), you have to think about how you play and present information to judges (both in infractions of any kind and in simple questions since you can get a warning for slow play or stalling with stupid questions).
Title: Re: Nevermore
Post by: Coffee Vampire on January 24, 2013, 12:48:17 AM
Thanks dude