{Gideon, Champion of Justice}
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Seems to me like Vraska. At first I was like "wow it wins you the game!" But then I realized how bad it is. In aggro, you will spend 4 mana on cards like {Hellrider}. Cards that make you win. In control, you are probably running 4 to 8 boardwipes. Can you say "bad synergy"? In midrange, you don't bother with gideon because you are going to cast {Thragtusk} and {Thundermaw Hellkite}.
I can't even answer this simple question: why attack him when he isn't above 15 loyalty?
...
He doesn't seem like a threat at all. In a control build, you spend 4 mana to boardwipe. Then play ghost council. No time for gideon. He seems like a bad {Deadbridge Goliath}.
Applications? The only thing I see is fog. Fogging twice with him on the field probably wins you the game. But even then, he is so vulnerable. He cannot be damaged. So guess what can hit him?
{Dreadbore}
Morbid {Tragic Slip}
{Detention Sphere}
{Oblivion Ring}
So all I have to do is ignore him until he gets over 15 counters and then {Cyclonic Rift}? And by that time my opponent is dead anyways?
Anyone see potential for this card? I just really want it to work but unfortunately it doesn't seem that great.
I was kinda thinking the same thing. I honestly can't figure out what is so great. He'd be a decent sideboard card against selesnya populate decks I guess, but I honestly see no point in main decking him...
If he was like gideon 1.0 and creatures had to attack him, he would be way more playable. But alas... :(
Quote from: Coffee Vampire on January 02, 2013, 06:22:20 PM
If he was like gideon 1.0 and creatures had to attack him, he would be way more playable. But alas... :(
I thought Jura was so much better. Bant turbo fog with him was so fun
Yea, I agree with Coffee. I really don't understand all the hype around him, hebisnjust not vey good. He will probably just be unplayable crap.
I think he has a pretty strong place actually. And that is in sideboard. You side him in against aggro. While a niche spot, it's where he will fit nonetheless. A few factors I think I should point out before we all jump on him:
-Barely any of the set has been spoiled; we could EASILY see cards which support this playstyle. Who knows? I tend to reserve judgment on cards until a whole set is spoiled.
-Wizards may have intended the new Gideon to be a star in a different format. Possibly to counterbalance creature-heavy, grindy Jund in Modern?
Discuss.
Maybe playing cards that give the opponent creatures?...now that I think about it. It does suck. Maybe someone will think up some brilliant se for him. His +0 ability will probably make him somewhat ok. But only with things like trample and double strike. Exile all other permanents? Even your own? Seems controlly to me, but like stated above, control will probably have a faster board wipe.
Quote from: Xaol on January 02, 2013, 06:47:49 PM
I think he has a pretty strong place actually. And that is in sideboard. You side him in against aggro. While a niche spot, it's where he will fit nonetheless. A few factors I think I should point out before we all jump on him:
-Barely any of the set has been spoiled; we could EASILY see cards which support this playstyle. Who knows? I tend to reserve judgment on cards until a whole set is spoiled.
-Wizards may have intended the new Gideon to be a star in a different format. Possibly to counterbalance creature-heavy, grindy Jund in Modern?
Discuss.
I agree with everything said here. And thanks for pointing out that the set needs to be spoiled to make any REAL judgements.
Ss there spell or effect which exiles owner's permanents till end of turn?
Quote from: Birdbrain on January 02, 2013, 06:49:43 PM
Maybe playing cards that give the opponent creatures?...now that I think about it. It does suck. Maybe someone will think up some brilliant se for him. His +0 ability will probably make him somewhat ok. But only with things like trample and double strike. Exile all other permanents? Even your own? Seems controlly to me, but like stated above, control will probably have a faster board wipe.
{Forbidden Orchard}?
Quote from: Piotr on January 02, 2013, 06:57:05 PM
Ss there spell or effect which exiles owner's permanents till end of turn?
No, the closest spell to what you're describing is {Worldfire}.
Quote from: Xaol on January 02, 2013, 07:10:13 PM
Quote from: Piotr on January 02, 2013, 06:57:05 PM
Ss there spell or effect which exiles owner's permanents till end of turn?
No, the closest spell to what you're describing is {Worldfire}.
{Sudden Disappearance}?
Would be great sideboard against token spamming madness of selesnya. But like you said it probably still wouldn't win you the game, just ruin theirs.
Also {tragic slip} wouldn't work. It says prevent all damage dealt to him this turn, and he wouldn't be a creature on his opponents turn.
Quote from: Silent1236 on January 02, 2013, 07:10:57 PM
Quote from: Xaol on January 02, 2013, 07:10:13 PM
Quote from: Piotr on January 02, 2013, 06:57:05 PM
Ss there spell or effect which exiles owner's permanents till end of turn?
No, the closest spell to what you're describing is {Worldfire}.
{Sudden Disappearance}?
Oh, I missed that one! Yeah, I'd say that's close also, except it doesn't do lands.
Quote from: Xaol on January 02, 2013, 07:13:06 PM
Quote from: Silent1236 on January 02, 2013, 07:10:57 PM
Quote from: Xaol on January 02, 2013, 07:10:13 PM
Quote from: Piotr on January 02, 2013, 06:57:05 PM
Ss there spell or effect which exiles owner's permanents till end of turn?
No, the closest spell to what you're describing is {Worldfire}.
{Sudden Disappearance}?
Oh, I missed that one! Yeah, I'd say that's close also, except it doesn't do lands.
Oh he said permanents :P I apparently can't read lol
I'm thinking of him as a beater... He's a 5/5 minimum as creature that can't be killed. Seems good...
I like him a lot, about 95% of the time you don't ulty a PW, I could care less about his ulty. He's aggressive, I'll play him regardless, I hope nobody plays him so I can get some for cheap.
Maybe there are cards that get cheaper/stronger for the number of exiled cards in the new set. And copy there effects. I remember reading azurious's first proposed mechanic used a space they were going to utilize in a future set. Thoughts?
Quote from: Wally on January 02, 2013, 07:12:51 PM
Would be great sideboard against token spamming madness of selesnya. But like you said it probably still wouldn't win you the game, just ruin theirs.
Also {tragic slip} wouldn't work. It says prevent all damage dealt to him this turn, and he wouldn't be a creature on his opponents turn.
1) tragic slip does not deal damage
2) it is an instant spell
I guess I over estimated the 'prevent' part of it.
He is good because he gets very big very fast. It is not that hard to protect a planeswalker, even from spot kills you can use {faith's shield} or any kind of hexproof. True his abilities at first glance seem counter intuitive, however those are generally the cards that are most easily abused. {Fog} and then {artful dodge}, turns him into a nasty large threat very early in the game.
No he is not a simple addition to any deck, but then again planeswalkers often aren't. He can for sure be abused and play a major threat in most games, but not a novice card by any means.
Side note, he will probably jack up {jace, architect of thought}'s price since they couple very nicely.
Johnny's may find a use for him. Timmy's might even like him too
Quote from: Wally on January 02, 2013, 09:47:37 PM
I guess I over estimated the 'prevent' part of it.
Yes it seems like "indestructable" and "damage can't be prevented" means that it just can't be removed. But just remember that magic is an extremely literal game, and every word has its own rules, like "damage". ;)
No Planeswalker is going to be {Jace, the Mind Sculptor} anymore. That being said, my track record as a card evaluator has been pretty spot on. I trashed {Jace, Architect of Thought} and the meta has spoken, he's an {amass the components} that works in certain decks. His mythic and Planeswalker-ness kept his value so high. {Vraska the Unseen} I've had pegged since day one too, and traded high on her because I put my money where my mouth is. I traded my JAoTs for near peak value.
New Gideon is the transition from "Planeswalker" to "Artifact with cool abilities". It is fitting that Gideon is the one to do it. Previously the way you evaluate planeswalkers was "how well do they protect themselves?" then "how well is their minus ability?" Gideon, Champion of Justice is the new {Grimoire of the Dead}. Why deal with it until you have to? It doesn't give you card advantage, it's ultimate wipes 15 power from it, if it has 16 counters it's a 1/1 that resets the game for both sides. There almost isn't a reason to run it to ultimate, and then equally less reasons to run it for its other abilities.
It will see Superfriends play, will see Turbo Fog, and will probably find its way into some unknown deck archtype that will come from Gatecrash. From my current position, it's probably not that good and will reach the same limited role as mostly every Planeswalker since Innistrad has seen.
Most importantly, the "remove other permanents" comes at a cost of -15. He plays against the Boros style of white weenies with combat tricks, if you play control against your opponent by removing their creatures you don't get loyalty counters. It's difficult to use him in the way standard is played now. Even his ultimate doesn't stop {Thragtusk}! You remove all permanents and get beat by a 3/3.
I do like the new Gideon, it flies in most decks as a 2-of. But I evaluate it as I do {Martial Law}. Great card in theory and passes almost every card evaluators tests, except the most important one "do you play it?"
Domri is priced well, and it's basically a card machine for {R}{G}. That card may see a lot of play, because it lets you see your next card. New Gideon isn't any of those things, he's a cool 4 mana artifact that sits there, sure he can grow...but how is he different from {Wayfaring Temple} or any other winmore cards?
Quote from: Dudecore on January 03, 2013, 12:10:39 AM
No Planeswalker is going to be {Jace, the Mind Sculptor} anymore. That being said, my track record as a card evaluator has been pretty spot on. I trashed {Jace, Architect of Thought} and the meta has spoken, he's an {amass the components} that works in certain decks. His mythic and Planeswalker-ness kept his value so high. {Vraska the Unseen} I've had pegged since day one too, and traded high on her because I put my money where my mouth is. I traded my JAoTs for near peak value.
New Gideon is the transition from "Planeswalker" to "Artifact with cool abilities". It is fitting that Gideon is the one to do it. Previously the way you evaluate planeswalkers was "how well do they protect themselves?" then "how well is their minus ability?" Gideon, Champion of Justice is the new {Grimoire of the Dead}. Why deal with it until you have to? It doesn't give you card advantage, it's ultimate wipes 15 power from it, if it has 16 counters it's a 1/1 that resets the game for both sides. There almost isn't a reason to run it to ultimate, and then equally less reasons to run it for its other abilities.
It will see Superfriends play, will see Turbo Fog, and will probably find its way into some unknown deck archtype that will come from Gatecrash. From my current position, it's probably not that good and will reach the same limited role as mostly every Planeswalker since Innistrad has seen.
Most importantly, the "remove other permanents" comes at a cost of -15. He plays against the Boros style of white weenies with combat tricks, if you play control against your opponent by removing their creatures you don't get loyalty counters. It's difficult to use him in the way standard is played now. Even his ultimate doesn't stop {Thragtusk}! You remove all permanents and get beat by a 3/3.
I do like the new Gideon, it flies in most decks as a 2-of. But I evaluate it as I do {Martial Law}. Great card in theory and passes almost every card evaluators tests, except the most important one "do you play it?"
Domri is priced well, and it's basically a card machine for {R}{G}. That card may see a lot of play, because it lets you see your next card. New Gideon isn't any of those things, he's a cool 4 mana artifact that sits there, sure he can grow...but how is he different from {Wayfaring Temple} or any other winmore cards?
Well said...+1
His problem is like you said, he just doesn't fit! He doesn't fit into *any* competitive deck, as it stands.
I'm going to play him I want 3 of him and I'll make the deck where he wins
Guess planeswalkers are like legends in the beginning. There new, and being experimented with. Why do you think it said he would see a lot of play? Unless there are cards that somehow play off of exiled permanents, he might be awesome. Otherwise, he's going to probably be in decks that use lots of big creatures, or give the opponent creatures. And the second doesn't seem like a good idea
Quote from: Coffee Vampire on January 02, 2013, 06:14:21 PM
{Gideon, Champion of Justice} (link won't work until aftet Feb.)
Should work now.
For me it links to {Archon of Justice}. Maybe I need to update my database...
Quote from: Coffee Vampire on January 03, 2013, 02:43:24 PM
For me it links to {Archon of Justice}. Maybe I need to update my database...
Yeah, app prompted me to update when I opened it a few minutes ago.
Yup works now for me. Thanks piotr :)
Thanks for motivating me ;)
Quote from: Dudecore on January 03, 2013, 12:10:39 AM
No Planeswalker is going to be {Jace, the Mind Sculptor} anymore. That being said, my track record as a card evaluator has been pretty spot on. I trashed {Jace, Architect of Thought} and the meta has spoken, he's an {amass the components} that works in certain decks. His mythic and Planeswalker-ness kept his value so high. {Vraska the Unseen} I've had pegged since day one too, and traded high on her because I put my money where my mouth is. I traded my JAoTs for near peak value.
New Gideon is the transition from "Planeswalker" to "Artifact with cool abilities". It is fitting that Gideon is the one to do it. Previously the way you evaluate planeswalkers was "how well do they protect themselves?" then "how well is their minus ability?" Gideon, Champion of Justice is the new {Grimoire of the Dead}. Why deal with it until you have to? It doesn't give you card advantage, it's ultimate wipes 15 power from it, if it has 16 counters it's a 1/1 that resets the game for both sides. There almost isn't a reason to run it to ultimate, and then equally less reasons to run it for its other abilities.
It will see Superfriends play, will see Turbo Fog, and will probably find its way into some unknown deck archtype that will come from Gatecrash. From my current position, it's probably not that good and will reach the same limited role as mostly every Planeswalker since Innistrad has seen.
Most importantly, the "remove other permanents" comes at a cost of -15. He plays against the Boros style of white weenies with combat tricks, if you play control against your opponent by removing their creatures you don't get loyalty counters. It's difficult to use him in the way standard is played now. Even his ultimate doesn't stop {Thragtusk}! You remove all permanents and get beat by a 3/3.
I do like the new Gideon, it flies in most decks as a 2-of. But I evaluate it as I do {Martial Law}. Great card in theory and passes almost every card evaluators tests, except the most important one "do you play it?"
Domri is priced well, and it's basically a card machine for {R}{G}. That card may see a lot of play, because it lets you see your next card. New Gideon isn't any of those things, he's a cool 4 mana artifact that sits there, sure he can grow...but how is he different from {Wayfaring Temple} or any other winmore cards?
i think he's probably going to be good in limited, only because people will be intimitated by him. otherwise, i dont even see him doing much in limited.
Trust me, he will be a boss in limited. A 6/6 (at the very least) indestructable that prevents all damage to him? Good in limited = yes.
Gideon in gatecrash is gonna be amazing to me!!!! Like have him out and keep on using his plus 1 until he has like 30-50 then use - 15 and next turn the opponent is screwed. Gideon is like a ticking time bomb
Quote from: All-Mana Mania on January 05, 2013, 01:28:10 PM
Gideon in gatecrash is gonna be amazing to me!!!! Like have him out and keep on using his plus 1 until he has like 30-50 then use - 15 and next turn the opponent is screwed. Gideon is like a ticking time bomb
That can take awhile which is why nobody wants to play him
Quote from: Millionlittlee on January 05, 2013, 01:31:25 PM
Quote from: All-Mana Mania on January 05, 2013, 01:28:10 PM
Gideon in gatecrash is gonna be amazing to me!!!! Like have him out and keep on using his plus 1 until he has like 30-50 then use - 15 and next turn the opponent is screwed. Gideon is like a ticking time bomb
That can take awhile which is why nobody wants to play him
Not while they use his plus 1. That is good ad amazing with orzhov guild so I like gideon
By himself he isn't all that impressive. I agree that {Gideon Jura} was better, but it all depends on how you play him. You could always {Fling} him after his +1 becomes a big enough threat to do so. He's more of an intimidation factor or a stupid alt win con that some people wouldn't expect.
To me, with dreadbores and oblivion rings and detention spheres...
Outside of his 0, he sucks, plain and simple.
If you +1 him, ok? I could care less if you ult him, not many instances you are gonna make that useful to me nor you. And I'm gonna dreadbore him, or I'm gonna searing spear,
Bonfire, or pithing needle.
Just really bad, hell, vraska has better uses then him, and vraska is pretty bad herself too.
Quote from: All-Mana Mania on January 05, 2013, 01:38:08 PM
Quote from: Millionlittlee on January 05, 2013, 01:31:25 PM
Quote from: All-Mana Mania on January 05, 2013, 01:28:10 PM
Gideon in gatecrash is gonna be amazing to me!!!! Like have him out and keep on using his plus 1 until he has like 30-50 then use - 15 and next turn the opponent is screwed. Gideon is like a ticking time bomb
That can take awhile which is why nobody wants to play him
Not while they use his plus 1. That is good ad amazing with orzhov guild so I like gideon
His Ulty sucks, period. Swinging with him could be fun though, in all honesty I'd rather drop {Ajani, Caller of the Pride} the turn before. He applies more pressure and if you topdeck him he can outright win you the game.
Ajani and Gideon would work nicely together.