EDIT: Ok guys and gals, I think we're safe now. Thank you everyone who joined the protest, at this moment I don't know if Wizards will listen to us but I have read all your comments on the official app (and of course on iMtG) and I am very grateful for your support. It really means a lot to me. If Wizards will refuse my business proposal (http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php/topic,1619.msg18912.html#msg18912) we will just have the app as it is now, with our own mana symbols and slightly worse quality of the scans. Next update will mostly solve the ugliness of the new expansion symbols too.
My notice period with my current employer is slowly coming to the end, and from April 1st you're my only boss. This is not a joke, I'm gonna be working full time on iMtG ;)
Long live iMtG! ;)
ORIGINAL POST:
Ok guys and gals, it's official now. From the letter I received today in response to my response to WotC's DMCA takedown letter to Apple:
"Wizards has committed to removing all of the relatively large number of applications on the iTunes Store that infringe its MAGIC: THE GATHERING(r) copyrights and trademarks in order to protect its intellectual property, and as a fan of the game, we assume you understand and appreciate Wizards' desire to do so."
As a fan of the game I totally fail to understand this. But I'm not stupid and I understand that some guy within WotC is trying to protect his 'Magic The Gathering Toolbox' app project and killing the competition off is the easiest way to do this. Unfortunately that means we the fans of the game will suffer, as the proper way to do this is to make the best app on the market, and without competition this is not possible.
I'm asking you to help me reach some other guys within WotC to stop this madness. We need to complain loudly but politely that this is not what the fans of Magic understand nor appreciate. Could everyone download the official app and rate it one star with a comment such as 'Please stop killing mobile MTG apps. Stop your lawyers, we want our apps back!'.
WotC official app: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/magic-the-gathering-toolbox/id491192015?mt=8
While at it, please vote other reviews with 'Please stop killing mobile MTG apps. Stop your lawyers, we want our apps back!' up so other people are more likely to see our action. You know, 'Was this review helpful?' thing. You can easily find them by checking most critical reviews.
This will give them something to think about but at the same time we will not have to spam good people like Maro.
That sucks
Countersue them for harassment!
We're not going to sue them as they are not suing us yet. We need to find a way to reach people in WotC who can stop this. Share your ideas please.
MaRo and/or other Tweeters, and social network users are the only ppl that come to my mind.
If they turf every other app out there, there is going to be HUGE outcry. What about StarCityGames? Did they get a similar letter? Is there any way to sound a rallying cry?
I suppose one way would be to show that you are NOT infringing on copyright and are using only public domain stuff.
Could you ask them if you can pay a royality to them per member who joins and if it's cheap just add it to the cost. I mean for a buck more I would pay to keep this site open
Lol I wonder if this is why there are so many guest on the site lately
We can move social networks. Like tweeting something like: "fail #WotC, taking down good apps for nothing", spamming their sites with something similar and other movements. This happens a lot, here in brazil a tablet producer, can't remember which one, said it wouldn't update the android in its tablet and, only 3 days after they changed their opinion because people were moving against it in Internet. Huge emprises like these always care for their public image
Quote from: Piotr on January 31, 2012, 05:03:17 PM
Ok guys and gals, it's official now. From the letter I received today in response to my response to WotC's DMCA takedown letter to Apple:
"Wizards has committed to removing all of the relatively large number of applications on the iTunes Store that infringe its MAGIC: THE GATHERING(r) copyrights and trademarks in order to protect its intellectual property, and as a fan of the game, we assume you understand and appreciate Wizards' desire to do so."
As a fan of the game I totally fail to understand this. But I'm not stupid and I understand that some guy within WotC is trying to protect his 'Magic The Gathering Toolbox' app project and killing the competition off is the easiest way to do this. Unfortunately that means we the fans of the game will suffer, as the proper way to do this is to make the best app on the market, and without competition this is not possible.
I'm asking you to help me reach some other guys within WotC to stop this madness. We need to complain loudly but politely that this is not what the fans of Magic understand nor appreciate.
What's the time frame how much time did they give you?
Piotr did u try contacting the maker of decked app to see if he is getting the same treatment?
MTGSalvation :)
What are the infringing stuff?
That's stupid, they're creating a monopoly, that's illegal. You should check to see if other similar apps. are being treated the same. Your obviously a huge threat because your app. is amazing. Either way this really sucks...
Quote from: Prophylaxis on January 31, 2012, 08:21:57 PM
MTGSalvation :)
What are the infringing stuff?
Nvm, MTGSalv ain't helping.
Hold your nose and dive in, I s'pose.
Yes I contacted TJ of Decked fame and we're working together. We are also talking to MTG Master's Ben Olson (his app is down already http://www.mtgmaster.info) and trying to reach the other guys who are selling cards through TCGplayer. As per the citation in my initial post, Wizards are after all the mobile apps. The biggest apps on Android were hit too. As for the MTGS, I started a thread there, they are the biggest forum aren't they: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=389490
I just had an idea, you tell me how good it is. Everyone downloads the official app and rate it one star with a comment such as 'Please stop killing mobile MTG apps. Stop your lawyers, we want our apps back!'.
This will give them something to think about but at the same time we will not have to spam good people like Maro. What do you think?
I will do it!!!!
Good idea
Quote from: Piotr on February 01, 2012, 08:10:02 AM
I just had an idea, you tell me how good it is. Everyone downloads the official app and rate it one star with a comment such as 'Please stop killing mobile MTG apps. Stop your lawyers, we want our apps back!'.
This will give them something to think about but at the same time we will not have to spam good people like Maro. What do you think?
I was thinking of that too to use the review section to bring awareness to all
Let's do it, download their app and vote it down. Be polite. It would be good if you give some constructive criticism in addition to 'Please give us our apps back, stop your lawyers. Do not kill the mobile MTG app market!'.
Many thanks for this!
Their app: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/magic-the-gathering-toolbox/id491192015?mt=8
Quote from: Piotr on February 01, 2012, 09:18:29 AM
Let's do it, download their app and vote it down. Be polite. It would be good if you give some constructive criticism in addition to 'Please give us our apps back, stop your lawyers. Do not kill the mobile MTG app market!'.
Your link doesn't work ... Error loading page
Many thanks for this!
Their app: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/magic-the-gathering-toolbox/id491192015?mt=8
Your link doesn't work... Error loading page
Quote from: Piotr on February 01, 2012, 09:18:29 AM
Let's do it, download their app and vote it down. Be polite. It would be good if you give some constructive criticism in addition to 'Please give us our apps back, stop your lawyers. Do not kill the mobile MTG app market!'.
Many thanks for this!
Their app: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/magic-the-gathering-toolbox/id491192015?mt=8
Thy will be done!
The link is not working for me
Can't test it on my phone right now. Are you in the US store? In the meantime just look for 'magic toolbox' in the app store and give them a nice little one star from me, please ;)
I think I am the first to review in Canada. I gave them one star and wrote this:
The lawyers at Wizards are trying to kill all other M:tG apps. If Magic has taught us anything it's that healthy competition breeds creativity an results in better quality apps available to all. Please let them know that this is for the best of the Magic community!
'Please give us our apps back, stop your lawyers. Do not kill the mobile MTG app market!'.
I gave my rating. 1 star and a complaint.
This is what I wrote and gave it 1 star
Although the app has great potential I strongly disagree with the fact that Wizards of the Coast are trying to ban all the other MTG apps in the AppStore that we love and use on a regular basis we should have the choice to pick which app we want to use for a given task and not be submitted to a monopoly as I always though monopolies where illegal I will consider giving this app a greater review and more stars if I have a guarantee that all other apps in AppStore will remain untouched thank you
What? That is nonsense. I've written a 1 star review before I saw this post, but only because their app is complete trash. I understand bringing down their rating but remember the more downloads they get the higher they go in the recommended apps list. Not sure about encouraging that as the best way, but I confess I offer no better ideas so that will do for now.
Good stuff. You keep giving them 1* warnings and I'll work on a copyright-safe version of iMtG. We will prevail! ;)
Quote from: 4gotAboutDre on February 01, 2012, 04:46:46 PM
What? That is nonsense. I've written a 1 star review before I saw this post, but only because their app is complete trash. I understand bringing down their rating but remember the more downloads they get the higher they go in the recommended apps list. Not sure about encouraging that as the best way, but I confess I offer no better ideas so that will do for now.
Don't worry about recommended apps list, and to be honest they would deserve 3.5, maybe 3, if they didn't try to kill all the other apps. I don't have better ideas either, and I think this may work.
iMtG:
"Target app gains protection from Wizards."
Nerd Alert! ðŸ˜,
Quote from: BlackJester on February 01, 2012, 04:55:52 PM
iMtG:
"Target app gains protection from Wizards."
Nerd Alert! ðŸ˜,
WotC cast counter spell
Quote from: Piotr on February 01, 2012, 04:52:20 PM
Quote from: 4gotAboutDre on February 01, 2012, 04:46:46 PM
What? That is nonsense. I've written a 1 star review before I saw this post, but only because their app is complete trash. I understand bringing down their rating but remember the more downloads they get the higher they go in the recommended apps list. Not sure about encouraging that as the best way, but I confess I offer no better ideas so that will do for now.
Don't worry about recommended apps list, and to be honest they would deserve 3.5, maybe 3, if they didn't try to kill all the other apps. I don't have better ideas either, and I think this may work.
Well I think a 3 is very generous. Your card list has cover flow which is awesome. You have a community forum where you are active with us. You have rules lookup. Official MTG app and no rules lookup?? Okay they have a nice link to the daily mtg articles. Kinda nice but whatever... You've got community and Bluetooth support and pricing with links to buy cards from within your browser. Dude, giving these guys a 3 is far more generous than necessary. So they have pretty artwork and vibrant colors. You can dress up a turd, but it smells like #%â,¬@ lol. You can add that someday too but your groundwork will match the pretty lights.
I don't know that 1 star reviews are going to get their legal team to back off, but it certainly doesn't hurt to let everyone know that Big Brother is a complete fool.
Well, at least they have a team of 30+ people working on their app! :D
Quote from: Piotr on February 01, 2012, 04:52:20 PM
Quote from: 4gotAboutDre on February 01, 2012, 04:46:46 PM
What? That is nonsense. I've written a 1 star review before I saw this post, but only because their app is complete trash. I understand bringing down their rating but remember the more downloads they get the higher they go in the recommended apps list. Not sure about encouraging that as the best way, but I confess I offer no better ideas so that will do for now.
Don't worry about recommended apps list, and to be honest they would deserve 3.5, maybe 3, if they didn't try to kill all the other apps. I don't have better ideas either, and I think this may work.
I would not mind a stunted version of iMTG. I absolutely love the community on here.
Sorry you got burned at MTGSalv.
What happened with MTGSalv? ???
I just checked the WoTC MTG app and it says there are only 13 ratings and no reviews... Does this mean they deleted our posts?
Quote from: BlackJester on February 01, 2012, 09:52:15 PM
What happened with MTGSalv? ???
/hatepost
Quote from: QuantumTarantino;7898600Ghrom - I am a "customer" of yours, i downloaded iMTG a long time ago.
I find it completely, and totally worthless to me.
FAR from the best MTG app, and definitely infringing on Wotc's IP
You are the worst part of this, and any, hobby community, a leech.
You are only here to suck money from people, ownership of what you are selling, be damned.
That really stung me.
Dang! Well, they did say they used it awhile ago, so they have no idea about the current functionality. Besides, Piotr has tons of happy loyal customers.
Are the companies that sell singles leeches too? Meh.
I can't locate the official mtg app in the app store to rate it low for some reason
just look up "toolbox"
No worries, it's just a troll.
Could you please vote up other reviews with 'Please stop killing mobile MTG apps. Stop your lawyers, we want our apps back!' so other people are more likely to see our action? You know, 'Was this review helpful?' thing. You can easily find them by checking most critical reviews in iTunes, but I'm not sure how it works on iPhones/iPods.
I started replacing card images with censored versions.
Quote from: Piotr on February 03, 2012, 12:28:26 PM
I started replacing card images with censored versions.
What does this mean blurry pics? Accidentally forget to overwrite our current database ;) ;);)
Quote from: Piotr on February 03, 2012, 12:28:26 PM
I started replacing card images with censored versions.
Yes, what exactly does this mean?
That WotC will sue me if I won't remove copyrighted material from iMtG.
Quote from: Piotr on February 03, 2012, 02:02:25 PM
That WotC will sue me if I won't remove copyrighted material from iMtG.
So, what do and don't they have copyrighted?
This is very complicated. What I can assure you of is that I'm not giving up. I will let you know if I do, clearly. I hope to see the cards back in their proper form, one way or the other. For the time being please help me by voting the crap out of the official app.
I just bought the I'll have it all. Hope it helps with the nonsense.
Quote from: TJKoer on February 03, 2012, 03:03:57 PM
I just bought the I'll have it all. Hope it helps with the nonsense.
ðŸ'
This is great the reviews for the most part all say the same things, people are giving 1 star after another with great complaints for the toolbox all saying stop deleting the better apps...only thing is its still rated 4 stars?
Quote from: Validan on February 03, 2012, 03:42:16 PM
This is great the reviews for the most part all say the same things, people are giving 1 star after another with great complaints for the toolbox all saying stop deleting the better apps...only thing is its still rated 4 stars?
The biggest problem is awareness for the most part people don't know what's happening and since toolbox is free and official they are jumping on it. The reality is that a lot of apps in the AppStore where crap( except imtg and decked) and people got screwed paying for them and got fed up and are accepting toolbox which is by far incomplete and very useless for people like us that use this app regularly for deck building and searching
IMTG MUST SURVIVE
Wait a min imtg is an awesome app the can take it off so how can I help
@Theroguard
Quote from: Piotr on February 02, 2012, 06:42:23 AM
Could you please vote up other reviews with 'Please stop killing mobile MTG apps. Stop your lawyers, we want our apps back!' so other people are more likely to see our action? You know, 'Was this review helpful?' thing. You can easily find them by checking most critical reviews in iTunes, but I'm not sure how it works on iPhones/iPods.
I don't have an itunes
I just got this app...now they want to kill it? Bogus! I checked out the other apps...comparing them to this one, it's like utter destruction. And you even complement me for purchasing "I'll have it all!". What a boss. Well time to download foolbox and give it 1 star and all that jazz. Wish I could do more.
... and you guys are dicks. Please stop killing mobile MTG apps. Stop your lawyers, we want our apps back!
---------------------------------------------------
Wizard of the Gross. (0)
---------------------------------------------------
STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
---------------------------------------------------
Instant Mfker
---------------------------------------------------
As an aditional cost to Wizard of the Gross, download the WotC app, 'toolbox'. Creatures under your control are tools in adition to their other types until toolbox leaves the battlefield.
Exile all WotC apps from all zones. If you have any MtG apps that were killed in unfair ways, put them onto the battlefield under their owner's control.
I love this app it must live
P.S. that card would be a tribal enchantmen of the dush bag clan
;)
Guys, please remember that even if there may be some people at Wizards who are dicks, most of them are good people who make our beloved game. Be polite and civil, please.
Mmm, yessir.
If they want to keep doing this sort of action they can reimburse me for all my cards and I will just use the online version.
Also they have only 4 reviews and they are glowing reviews
Yes, Australia seems to be slacking a little bit with the support of our little protest ;)
The more impact your 1* will do, go and leave a 'good' review for them ;)
Quote from: Piotr on February 04, 2012, 04:18:42 AM
Yes, Australia seems to be slacking a little bit with the support of our little protest ;)
The more impact your 1* will do, go and leave a 'good' review for them ;)
Ok I just went and made my vote of 1🌟on the Aus site and lefts nice little rant too.
Just reviwed the app...
Deck builder by Prixeon has an internal update function although there is a bug and you can download all updates but must keep the app open without force closing it or else it forgets the updates of the last year I know imtg has a download update feature does this mean we will be able to update in the future if all goes to .poo.
I don't know. Hard to update an app from jail ;)
I suppose we all just to hope for the best.
Quote from: Piotr on February 04, 2012, 02:44:49 PM
I don't know. Hard to update an app from jail ;)
Don't u get a few hours a day of free time ... :)
So they can get you to take your app off the app store, but they can't stop us from using the app we have already downloaded. Hopefully they back off. If they are going to try and shut down other apps, then how can they not try to shut down web fan sites for MTG. What's the difference? Hope this all goes away. Keep letting us know what we can do to help.
This make me sad that we loved a company that gave use a good game an they repay us by killing apps of other fans.
I am so confused, doesn't this app pull data from Gatherer? If they post the card database publicly available via the Internet, how are you infringing their copyright by providing an app that allows us to access the info in a convienient way? I've tried numerous apps (including the new WOTC one) and this is the only one I've ever enjoyed using. I really hope there's some kind of acceptable resolution, and will do what I can to help spread the word. Thanks!
Quote from: 4gotAboutDre on February 04, 2012, 06:54:51 PM
So they can get you to take your app off the app store, but they can't stop us from using the app we have already downloaded. Hopefully they back off. If they are going to try and shut down other apps, then how can they not try to shut down web fan sites for MTG. What's the difference? Hope this all goes away. Keep letting us know what we can do to help.
Actually, they are trying to get Apple to pull the app, not Piotr.
They are removing my forum post becsuse i am raging at them and i got i troble from "Big Brother" they are evil i tell you . This i dube ocupy magic.
Quote from: Helvault Keeper on February 06, 2012, 01:57:03 AM
They are removing my forum post becsuse i am raging at them and i got i troble from "Big Brother" they are evil i tell you . This i dube ocupy magic.
Well, so much for civil.
All I wanted to do was make a cephalid deck, and now i keep checking this thread. FYI: there are a BUNCH of cephalids
Quote from: AgentOfBolas on February 06, 2012, 10:41:11 AM
All I wanted to do was make a cephalid deck, and now i keep checking this thread. FYI: there are a BUNCH of cephalids
Odessey block, right?
We're is wotc located
Just got back from WotC vs. Magic Community on MTGSalvation. 18 pages (so far) of passionate arguments on either side. Wow! TL;DR I didn't get through all of it.
I like the new logo idea. ;D No more Blue! Now with Purple, w00t!
According to wikipedia: renton, washington
I just can't believe they'd take legal action like that. I hope that some sort of agreement can be made, but I love this app and I would hate to see it turned into something else.
Yes they are in reton they are by the hilton garden inn top floor.
P.s. if you go before you get in to a heated agument ask for a gift bag my gift bag had a innastrad fat pack.
P.s,s if you do go grab me a gift bag too
P.s.s.s. i am a kid so that may be it to.
Be proud - their rating is way low and there are plenty of comments referring to this app as being better than the official one, and I agree. You can make an app look as snazzy as you want but it is functionality and usefulness that wins it at the end of the day.
This app has a few bugs. I have submitted feedback on it. I am confident they would be worked out.
WotC should fire their programmer and hire you
Quote from: TheDevilMyself on February 07, 2012, 03:16:30 AMWotC should fire their programmer and hire you
According to their credits it was a team of 8 programmers. How cool is that? :D
Hell, then pay you their wages! To be fair, if you had a couple talented lackeys this app could be even better, but that would be one for GUI and one for just time saved on repetetive coding! Props for creating a community here and being an active member!
I kind of had plans for that, but I decided to quit my day job instead and become the lackeys myself :D
Quote from: Piotr on February 08, 2012, 12:05:35 PM
I kind of had plans for that, but I decided to quit my day job instead and become the lackeys myself :D
I know it is hard not to but do not stress out too much about it all since there is so much you can't control anyway. Worse case scenario, you will be fine given your obvious talents. ( alright that's enough with the wishy washy stuff ). Thanks Piotr, I love this app :))
Thanks Piotr, I love this app :)) (2)
I rated it 1 star and typed out a nice little message, hope everything works out.
Man, I would have jumped in to the MTGS debate, (if you can call it that) but I wanted to read the entire thread before posting. By the time I did, it was already turfed. >:( I came up with a sweet analogy to the situation too!
Complain to the moderators or start a new thread with link to the old one, or both. I don't think they should have killed the thread, it was well alive and there were only one or two guys crossing the line a little bit.
I'm pretty sure I don't have to ask for it, but do not stop alive conversations on this forum, please ;)
I'm almost done with the version which removes trademarked stuff and replaces our nice scans with ugly Gatherer pictures. Expect an update sometime next week. I think our new mana icons will be nicer than originals ;)
Quote from: Piotr on February 10, 2012, 03:38:37 AM
Complain to the moderators or start a new thread with link to the old one, or both. I don't think they should have killed the thread, it was well alive and there were only one or two guys crossing the line a little bit.
I may start a new one. I don't have an account (BlackJester has already been taken. :'() It will run the risk of looking like and account created by a dev to defend the apps. I'd have to be very diplomatic.
Quote
I'm pretty sure I don't have to ask for it, but do not stop alive conversations on this forum, please ;)
no, you don't have to ask. ;) "It's the greatest samurai that lets his sword rust." I'd ask members to be civil to each other, but I'm a big fan of smart debate.
Quote
I'm almost done with the version which removes trademarked stuff and replaces our nice scans with ugly Gatherer pictures. Expect an update sometime next week. I think our new mana icons will be nicer than originals ;)
Glad to hear that you are working to push the app further away from their property. I hope that someday we'll be able to see the images again, in some form.
Quote from: Piotr on February 10, 2012, 03:38:37 AM
Complain to the moderators or start a new thread with link to the old one, or both. I don't think they should have killed the thread, it was well alive and there were only one or two guys crossing the line a little bit.
I'm pretty sure I don't have to ask for it, but do not stop alive conversations on this forum, please ;)
I'm almost done with the version which removes trademarked stuff and replaces our nice scans with ugly Gatherer pictures. Expect an update sometime next week. I think our new mana icons will be nicer than originals ;)
I wouldn't want to start another thread. The public opinion on Salv is an uphill battle.
It still blows my mind that they don't see at least a thin connection between MTGS and iMtG.
Quote from: BlackJester on February 10, 2012, 07:10:15 PM
It still blows my mind that they don't see at least a thin connection between MTGS and iMtG.
Me and Apple are the only people I know of that are in Salv. Apple hasn't even posted anything.
Quote from: Prophylaxis on February 10, 2012, 08:20:14 PM
Quote from: BlackJester on February 10, 2012, 07:10:15 PM
It still blows my mind that they don't see at least a thin connection between MTGS and iMtG.
Me and Apple are the only people I know of that are in Salv. Apple hasn't even posted anything.
I dunno, I just got the impression that there are a lot of 1337 snobs and self-righteous trolls. I hope I'm wrong.
What's salv?
Quote from: Rass on February 10, 2012, 10:26:16 PM
What's salv?
MTGSalvation.com, I pretty popular magic forum site.
Quote from: Piotr on February 10, 2012, 03:38:37 AM
I'm almost done with the version which removes trademarked stuff and replaces our nice scans with ugly Gatherer pictures. Expect an update sometime next week. I think our new mana icons will be nicer than originals ;)
BUMP LIKE CAN'T WAIT
Quote from: BlackJester on February 10, 2012, 09:21:28 PM
Quote from: Prophylaxis on February 10, 2012, 08:20:14 PM
Quote from: BlackJester on February 10, 2012, 07:10:15 PM
It still blows my mind that they don't see at least a thin connection between MTGS and iMtG.
Me and Apple are the only people I know of that are in Salv. Apple hasn't even posted anything.
I dunno, I just got the impression that there are a lot of 1337 snobs and self-righteous trolls. I hope I'm wrong.
You're looking in the wrong place.
What can we do to prevent this kind of people from appearing here?
I started a continuation of the thread ;)
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=392155
Quote from: Piotr on February 11, 2012, 03:00:16 PM
What can we do to prevent this kind of people from appearing here?
I started a continuation of the thread ;)
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=392155
Being a forum, I don't even think such a thing is possible. ðŸ˜" trolls are everywhere. The best is to foster a positive community and be vigilant to keep it healthy.
As for the thread, I really want to get in there and fight the good fight, but I already have too many things to do as it is...ðŸ˜"
Hey, I'm all for a laissez faire system and I only recently discovered your ap (it's amazing, btw. I love how much you've included and how easy it is to use. Though I do miss my D20's a bit...), I haven't even bought the full version (YET). So you've got my support, keep up the good work. =3
Quote from: Alysha on February 12, 2012, 02:11:53 AM
Hey, I'm all for a laissez faire system and I only recently discovered your ap (it's amazing, btw. I love how much you've included and how easy it is to use. Though I do miss my D20's a bit...), I haven't even bought the full version (YET). So you've got my support, keep up the good work. =3
I highly recommend buying the full version.
One of the best things I have used it for is a deck tester for pre-sleeve test draws - like, you've built a deck and want to test it, but you don't want to spend the time to put them all in sleeves and your cards are too valuable to risk too many shuffles and you're not sure if your build is gonna work or not.
You can do that normally, sure, but scanning the cards makes it do much easier. Make sure you have a good light source and scan away!
Also multiple decks and all that - everything is awesome.
I may have possibly missed it but is there any reason why I cannot take pictures of cards I own and send them to pitor?
Quote from: Biff11482 on February 12, 2012, 12:06:55 PM
I may have possibly missed it but is there any reason why I cannot take pictures of cards I own and send them to pitor?
😳I don't think he's into that sort of thing...
Just jokes, in what way do you mean? We Beta testers have been known to email him from time to time and I have included screen caps? Is that what you mean?
Nope it's all good I meant there all upset about the pics right? So we take pics of cards we own and send them to him.
The Problem is the Copyright of card and the Art on it that belongs to wotc. So even if you would take pictures, it doesn't change the Copyright law regarding the Card on it
So aret after eBay listia and every other site? Selective outrage dosent hold up.
This Sites are not using Pics of only One certain trademark and Even if the pictures are deleted after a maximum of about 2,5 years or they have a certain permission
Quote from: Biff11482 on February 12, 2012, 12:38:43 PM
So aret after eBay listia and every other site? Selective outrage dosent hold up.
There is an area called "Fair Use" which allows you to use copywriten (copywrited?) material in a specific way: parodie, selling the product, etc. The problem is it is not easy to know where the "property line" is without a "surveyer" (lawyer).
Well now I think I'm going to see how these copyright shenanigans work out before I do. Besides, I think I'm only really interested in the deck builder anyway, I don't have a dataplan so some of the applications are not as useful -- Which is why it's so cool you can buy pieces if you want.
Quote from: Alysha on February 12, 2012, 04:08:57 PM
Well now I think I'm going to see how these copyright shenanigans work out before I do. Besides, I think I'm only really interested in the deck builder anyway, I don't have a dataplan so some of the applications are not as useful -- Which is why it's so cool you can buy pieces if you want.
I agree, just getting the tools you want is a good model. I'm not sure, but I think if you opt to be a Beta tester, you get access to everything, and new features too! ðŸ""
Nope, being a beta tester is just a duty, all work and no fun. Nothing is unlocked for beta testers and they are actually a bit screwed as in beta the shop doesn't work.
Quote from: BlackJester on February 12, 2012, 04:46:53 PM
Quote from: Alysha on February 12, 2012, 04:08:57 PM
Well now I think I'm going to see how these copyright shenanigans work out before I do. Besides, I think I'm only really interested in the deck builder anyway, I don't have a dataplan so some of the applications are not as useful -- Which is why it's so cool you can buy pieces if you want.
I agree, just getting the tools you want is a good model. I'm not sure, but I think if you opt to be a Beta tester, you get access to everything, and new features too! ðŸ""
You don't, I was a Beta Tester before I purchased multiple decks and an offline cache, without the purchase they are unavailable.
Quote from: Piotr on February 12, 2012, 04:51:46 PM
Nope, being a beta tester is just a duty, all work and no fun. Nothing is unlocked for beta testers and they are actually a bit screwed as in beta the shop doesn't work.
Sorry! My bad. 😖😷
I really hope WotC gets the message. If anything they should be asking you how to improve their app. I have so much time invested in my decks here it would be such a shame to have to start over, especially with an inferior app. Keep fighting, iMTG. We are behind you.
Quote from: Deadcrows on February 14, 2012, 07:50:56 AM
I really hope WotC gets the message. If anything they should be asking you how to improve their app. I have so much time invested in my decks here it would be such a shame to have to start over, especially with an inferior app. Keep fighting, iMTG. We are behind you.
Exactly 
If I lost my Elf EDH and my Needed lists that would really suck =/
Quote from: Deadcrows on February 14, 2012, 07:50:56 AM
I really hope WotC gets the message. If anything they should be asking you how to improve their app. I have so much time invested in my decks here it would be such a shame to have to start over, especially with an inferior app. Keep fighting, iMTG. We are behind you.
🇷🇺🎵Do you hear the people sing, singing the song of many men! It is the music of a people who will not be slaves again🎵🇷🇺
This song popped into head after reading the comment and I agree. Shotgun waving the flag!
I got the toolbox the day it came out. Used it for about 2 minutes before I got sick of how poorly-designed it was and immediately came back to the awesomeness of iMTG!!
If they aren't going to provide us with a quality app, they should at least let someone else do it!! Someone doing it because they care about the game. Not just because they want money. I don't mind supporting and paying for a quality app. (I unlocked every feature for iMTG), but toolbox is aweful! And the few features it does have, half of them don't work right anyway.
I'm glad we had someone willing to step up and make a great app! While WotC tools years to finally get us an "official app".
I think it's terrible that with the large team of designers, and all the money, their big company is still afraid to compete with an indie app maker.
I left 1 star, and a nice, quite long message about it. :)
Love iMTG!! Thank you for everything!
I am new to iMtG, but as soon as I got it I immediately bought the full version. Now I've noticed how the app suddenly appears different, and then stumbled onto this thread. I just now wrote a bad (but polite) review of WotC's app, and I am now very disappointed with the company.
Anyways, I would like to thank Piotr for this wonderful app; I thoroughly enjoy it. I also wanted to let you know that I am rooting for you in all this legal mumbo-jumbo. Good luck Piotr!
http://www.gatheringmagic.com/daviastels-mtg-toolbox-review/
I forgot to mention this earlier, but this is a review of toolbox.
Quote from: Prophylaxis on February 17, 2012, 12:07:35 PM
http://www.gatheringmagic.com/daviastels-mtg-toolbox-review/
I forgot to mention this earlier, but this is a review of toolbox.
Should I print/frame/hang-this-on-my-wall? LOL #couldntputitbettermyself
All the support for this fantastic app!!
I hate when corporations do like this. They don't understand that they could use the resources that are already there instead of forcing their own on the market.
Already downloaded their lousy app, so borked it keeps on getting into infinite loading at start.
We could open an online petition somewhere, perhaps? So every user of every mtg third party app could go there and sign it to stop this madness.
Can you update us as to how the ''fight'' is going? Kind of curious to see where it's at right now
I'm waiting for WotC's response to my letter asking them to treat iMtG the same as TCGplayer.com.
Quote from: Piotr on February 19, 2012, 06:43:17 PM
I'm waiting for WotC's response to my letter asking them to treat iMtG the same as TCGplayer.com.
To be honest, I would just give up. Your recent update has mostly solved this and it is clear that WotC doesn't really want to do anything other than pulverize the app.
I'd say quite the opposite. This app is amazing and he should continue to see if they will accept his app in the market (without pushing too hard of course). After reading the reviews for their app, it's amazing how many players are mad at WotC for their actions in this matter. I just hope they either allow other apps, or hire the makes of the superior apps. Keep it up :)
Will do. I don't think they can afford me though ;)
Big pointer here. You call this app, that we all love, iMTG where as i supect "MTG" has been copyrighted by WotC. Technically that would be copyright infringement. So try and change the name. Slandering their app isnt a good way to go either.
MTG is not copyrighted nor trademarked by WotC. What 'slandering' are you talking about?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark_troll
Quote from: Piotr on February 22, 2012, 10:41:10 AM
MTG is not copyrighted nor trademarked by WotC. What 'slandering' are you talking about?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark_troll
Not necicarily "MTG" i mispoke. But you understand what i mean?
And by slandering i mean telling people to vote down Magic toolbox. There are better ways of getting our message across i would hope to think.
In 1.22.1 I removed all copyrighted and trademarked content which may be considered not fair use or inline linking. If you know of a better way to make WotC stop and think about their stance regarding mobile MTG apps, please share it.
Well, I think that now, since iMtG is lawyer-proof, the battle is really on behalf of other devs and their apps. I don't like their actions, but I don't think it matters much anymore, IMHO.
I would love to have the expansion symbols back.
Quote from: Piotr on February 22, 2012, 11:45:05 AM
I would love to have the expansion symbols back.
Yeah it made me sad to not see the mana symbols and expansion symbols. Hopefully this will reach out to them somehow. And to get me wrong i was just trying to help. If this is foolproof i dont see what they could have on you.
Quote from: Piotr on February 22, 2012, 11:45:05 AM
I would love to have the expansion symbols back.
I agree the mana symbols are nice where as the expansion symbols are a little confusing.... Better than nOthing
I'm just glad to be able to see the cards
Me too :) however, I thought the images were being censored?
Quote from: Sammastin on February 22, 2012, 09:54:55 PM
Me too :) however, I thought the images were being censored?
They are supposed to be if one happens to pop up while your looking thru this app close your eyes and get out of that page
Jkjk
This has probs been said before but if you still see censored images after updating AND closing and oppening your eyes, {Purge} your images in database mantainence and you should be fine. :)
The card images in versions prior to 1.22.1 were hosted by me (and in very old versions by magiccards.info), I was managing them and paying for the bandwidth. Arguably that was copyright infringement. Now they are shown from Gatherer and we should be safe according to this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inline_linking
Quote from: Piotr on February 23, 2012, 02:45:57 AM
The card images in versions prior to 1.22.1 were hosted by me (and in very old versions by magiccards.info), I was managing them and paying for the bandwidth. Arguably that was copyright infringement. Now they are shown from Gatherer and we should be safe according to this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inline_linking
Im no lawyer, but... If you can post the image of a card as you sell your crap on eBay then you should most definitely be able to host scanned images of your own vast card collection. (also, gatherer doesn't always get it right as my friend and I noticed today)
Also also, I think you should look into my suggestion of hotlinking the expansion symbols from gatherer as well, or another site like it. The mana symbols are fine, though. I can live without them, but if they can be hotlinked too, then great!
Maybe not hotlink but initially linked from outside source then cached for future use...
Ah workarounds!
I have been having a discussion about WOTC 🆚 IMTG for about a month now with JaCeBeLrEn, kvfertig, and Steelboy19, and I have to say we all think WOTC are being *insert extremely pride-desintigrating curse word here*s and should lay off. I mean come on, the app is here because we LIKE YOUR STUFF! We promote MTG! We're like a tribute band for magic! And what do we get? A bunch of threats and censorship. Assholes.
Quote from: Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker on February 28, 2012, 09:51:38 PM
I have been having a discussion about WOTC 🆚 IMTG for about a month now with JaCeBeLrEn, kvfertig, and Steelboy19, and I have to say we all think WOTC are being *insert extremely pride-desintigrating curse word here*s and should lay off. I mean come on, the app is here because we LIKE YOUR STUFF! We promote MTG! We're like a tribute band for magic! And what do we get? A bunch of threats and censorship. Assholes.
"We Are!...
I!
M!
T!
G!!!"
(loud applause)
"Goodnight!"
THE NERDS WON! WO HOO!! I love this app! That is all
We did? ???
😳 whadid we win?
tl;dr: I think we're safe.
I have just sent this email to the lawyers:
Dear [Censored by iMtG],
It's been a month since we last spoke, I hope you had a blast. It's been a busy time for me, as in parallel to my business proposal which you forwarded to Wizards, I decided to make sure that in case they say no, I can continue providing services to my users. I was working to make sure my app is legal, so to say, and the new version is now out in the Apple App Store.
I no longer ship mana nor expansion symbols in iMtG. I no longer host card images on my server to display them in iMtG. I even changed the logo, although I believe the old one was far enough from the pentagon of colours.
What I didn't do is change the app's name. You claim it infringes Wizard's "MTG" trademark, but after the research I did I understand that they do not hold this trademark. I failed to find any products of theirs which use "MTG", I learned that Wizards never registered it, I learned that there are a number of registered trademarks consisting of "MTG" or containing "MTG", at least two by entities not related to Wizards but related to Magic The Gathering game. "MTG" is widely used by Magic players to describe the game and is part of business name of many Magic related entities, and has been for many years. Some of these entities have been officially known to Wizards in a very obvious way, such as MTGSalvation.com for example. Unless you convince me otherwise, at this stage I have no plans to change the name of my app.
I still ship the Oracle content of the cards as this is required for my app's educational function, as well as commentary and criticism platform it is. People can and do comment on cards on a forum linked with the app. It is also required by the commercial function of iMtG as I sell Wizard's cards through it. I believe this is fair use of the material and not only is not hurting Wizards, but making them profit.
All in all, regardless of what Wizards will respond to my business proposal from last month, I believe I have fulfilled all your original requests apart from changing my apps name. I am ready to discuss it further should you decide to convince me that you are in fact able to prove that iMtG is infringing your trademarks. Otherwise, I believe iMtG in it's current form is not infringing on Wizard's rights anymore.
I would be delighted if you could tell me what is the status of my business proposal from last month, if you have any information on that of course.
Kind regards,
Piotr Farbiszewski
The 'business proposal' sent on Feb 5th is this (part of the email only, excludes the business case):
What I am asking for is the permission to use cards' scanned images, their Oracle literary content, expansions symbols and logos, and the cards related symbols such as mana and tap symbols, in iMtG online Magic: The Gathering cards store. I believe this is no different than what entities such as Star City Games and TCGplayer.com are doing and it is fair use of the copyrighted material which you undisputedly own. I made all the required arrangements which I initially missed and no one can now be confused that iMtG is produced by, endorsed by, supported by, or affiliated with Wizards of the Coast. Please accept my sincere apologies that I may have caused such confusion in the past by not including the relevant disclaimers in the iTunes Store app description, iMtG official web site and in the app itself. This is all fixed now.
If you are not willing to grant me such permission under no circumstances to any of the copyrighted and trademarked intellectual property of yours, I ask that you let me be the same way you let the other friendly entities be, and I promise to continue making money for you. I understand that your core business is the card game and I never had any plans whatsoever to provide game functionality in iMtG. It will remain a reference utility, a card store and trading platform.
You did it Piotr! 😃👌
Quote from: AgentOfBolas on March 06, 2012, 11:26:17 PM
THE NERDS WON! WO HOO!! I love this app! That is all
I'll consider us the winners when we get set and mana symbols back
I consider Piotr a winner every time I open this app, build a deck, and use any feature on this app.
Quote from: Coffee Vampire on March 30, 2012, 01:44:31 PM
I consider Piotr a winner every time I open this app, build a deck, and use any feature on this app.
Took the words out of my mouth. Big ups to you Piotr.
I'm so happy for iMTG!
Amazing job Piotr and despite the official logos and whatnots it is still BY FAR the best mtg app out there.
Bright future ahead!
This is THE best resource. Honestly, I think they should hire you as the app director or something at WOTC because their little toolbox is nothing compared to what we have here. This is a community worth fighting for and with!
Newish member here, I bought it all myself after using this app for 5 minutes. I was introduced to it by a fellow player at an event a few weeks ago and haven't looked back to the toolbags' toolbox. Kinda bumping here, but as a business man myself I would have offered you a job to better improve my product, and saved money by layoffs and not having to pay lawyer retainers just to preserve my ego. Wishing you and your team all the best, and hopefully the word spreads more about your wonderful app!
We are the team dude! We help by brainstorming ideas and finding bugs. Piotr is a great dev and he's got all of us behind us. So welcome to the team!!
Just to clarify, Piotr is doing all of the work by himself. We populate the forum, but we are merely playing in the playground he built.
Three beers from me to you Piotr.
Thanks! BTW, I did not get any reply at all to that last email.
I am really sorry for everything that wizards put you through. You have an amazing app that it seems everyone who uses loves (minus a troll or two). I lost a lot of respect for wizards after reading this entire thread.