Not sure if anyone mentioned it. But {hex parasite} can remove the +1/1 counter from your undying creatures so they keep returning from the GY.
Good one!
How about {Phyrexian Hydra} + undying. That thing REALLY can't die. XD
I see a deck forming
Quote from: cltrn81 on January 27, 2012, 05:18:35 PM
Not sure if anyone mentioned it. But {hex parasite} can remove the +1/1 counter from your undying creatures so they keep returning from the GY.
I mentioned it in the dark ascension spoilers but I'm glad you posted it too
I thought someone else could have said it somewhere...it is an obvious one. But figured I would post it to point it out.
Quote from: cltrn81 on January 28, 2012, 09:32:42 AM
I thought someone else could have said it somewhere...it is an obvious one. But figured I would post it to point it out.
Thanks you saved me some typing :)
Would {heartless summoning} make anything with undying unkillable unless your opponent has a {graft digger's cage}?
Undying specifies that the not have a +1/+1 counter. {Heartless Summoning} doesn't give counters. Even if a creature with a +1/+1 counter was givin a -1/-1 counter and then died he wouldn't come back.
Karrthus is right. The creatures get no counters so if they die the +1/1 counter still goes on them
Quote from: Karrthus on January 31, 2012, 04:23:48 AM
Undying specifies that the not have a +1/+1 counter. {Heartless Summoning} doesn't give counters.
Right.
QuoteEven if a creature with a +1/+1 counter was givin a -1/-1 counter and then died he wouldn't come back.
Not exactly. If the -1/-1 counter doesn't kill it right away, then the two types of counters would cancel each other out. But if a creature gets enough -1/-1 counters to kill it, say from a {Blightsteel Colossus} then SBE will destroy the creature at the exact same time as the counters and the creature will stay dead.
So you would have to have something that puts the -1/-1 counters on it instead of just saying everything gets -1/-1.
Put undying on {mikeaus the lunarch} and tap him to death and make your stuff huge by taking +1/+1 counters off him? Could that work?
Yep!
But, if {Mikaeus, the Lunarch} with 4 +1/+1 counters blocked a {Chained Throatseeker}, he would die and not come back.
I ran into this problem at a tourney with proliferate. I had a creature with 3 +1/+1 counters that was give 2 -1/-1 counters. The judge said when I proliferated he was given both counters because both were there. So -1/1 counter does not cancel out a +1/+1 counter because both exist on the creature.
Quote from: Karrthus on January 31, 2012, 03:10:49 PM
I ran into this problem at a tourney with proliferate. I had a creature with 3 +1/+1 counters that was give 2 -1/-1 counters. The judge said when I proliferated he was given both counters because both were there. So -1/1 counter does not cancel out a +1/+1 counter because both exist on the creature.
no way. First of, you can choose which counters to proliferate. Second u can only proliferate 1 type of counter for each permanent. Last of all, the counters cancel each other.
Quote from: Karrthus on January 31, 2012, 03:10:49 PM
I ran into this problem at a tourney with proliferate. I had a creature with 3 +1/+1 counters that was give 2 -1/-1 counters. The judge said when I proliferated he was given both counters because both were there. So -1/1 counter does not cancel out a +1/+1 counter because both exist on the creature.
CR State-Based Actions
CR704.5r If a permanent has both a +1/+1 counter and a -1/-1 counter on it, N +1/+1 and N -1/-1 counters are removed from it where N is the smaller of the number of +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters on it.
However, (hold on to your socks) if you play a spell like {Grim Affliction} the proliferate would happen
after the counter was put on but
before State-base affects would remove them. So, this may have been a weird corner-case.
Do you remember exactly what happened?
Quote from: Mentonin on January 31, 2012, 03:17:29 PM
Quote from: Karrthus on January 31, 2012, 03:10:49 PM
I ran into this problem at a tourney with proliferate. I had a creature with 3 +1/+1 counters that was give 2 -1/-1 counters. The judge said when I proliferated he was given both counters because both were there. So -1/1 counter does not cancel out a +1/+1 counter because both exist on the creature.
no way. First of, you can choose which counters to proliferate. Second u can only proliferate 1 type of counter for each permanent. Last of all, the counters cancel each other.
Nope, if you target a permanent with proliferate, you add one of every counter already on it. No picking and choosing.
Really? Hate Portuguese translations, one time it even said "creatures can't attack" instead of "creatures can't block" ... I'm pretty sure it says only one counter per creature in Portuguese.
P.S. the actual cards translations, not iMtG's
Read 701.23b, isn't there saying that u choose?
Quote from: Mentonin on January 31, 2012, 03:32:10 PM
Read 701.23b, isn't there saying that u choose?
I'll be damned! You're absolutely correct!
The reminder text for proliferate:
You choose any number of permanents and/or players with counters on them, then give each another counter of a kind already there.
When I read that, it sounds like you add one of
each kind, not one of any kind.
But, right from the Comp Rules:
701.24b If a permanent or player chosen this way has more than one kind of counter, the player who is proliferating chooses which kind of counter to add.
So, basically Karrthus, that judge failed on two counts! XD
Judge are not always right I'm having a fight with my judge about lifelink
Quote from: Theroguard on January 31, 2012, 05:26:59 PM
Judge are not always right I'm having a fight with my judge about lifelink
what is he saying?
Quote from: Theroguard on January 31, 2012, 05:26:59 PM
Judge are not always right I'm having a fight with my judge about lifelink
Use this app as a judge, if you have a question, type a keyword in the search bar, it's worth it, I had a guy try to flip a Dfc during combat somehow, don't really remember the exact action, but he is suppose to be training to be a judge, and he was wrong, trust no one, unless you're at a wizards tournament, prolly not a good idea to pick fights.
Quote from: JakeyWakey on January 31, 2012, 11:59:04 PM
Quote from: Theroguard on January 31, 2012, 05:26:59 PM
Judge are not always right I'm having a fight with my judge about lifelink
Use this app as a judge, if you have a question, type a keyword in the search bar, it's worth it, I had a guy try to flip a Dfc during combat somehow, don't really remember the exact action, but he is suppose to be training to be a judge, and he was wrong, trust no one, unless you're at a wizards tournament, prolly not a good idea to pick fights.
â˜â˜â˜â˜â˜â˜â˜â˜â˜
What he said. I use this app and MTGJudge to settle all disputes.
Cauldron of souls works too. Came up with this when I realized undying was backwards persist.
Quote from: AgentOfBolas on February 04, 2012, 01:00:14 AM
{Cauldron of Souls} works too. Came up with this when I realized undying was backwards persist.
Ok so what happens if you have a 1/1 with both persist and undying. It dies you bring it back with undying. It dies again can you bring it back with persist and then right again with undying to have basically a 2/2 forever?
Hope that makes sense
I'm pretty sure that you can't use both at once. Be awsome if u could, though.
Quote from: Rass on February 04, 2012, 09:56:18 AM
Ok so what happens if you have a 1/1 with both persist and undying. It dies you bring it back with undying. It dies again can you bring it back with persist and then right again with undying to have basically a 2/2 forever?
Hope that makes sense
If you have a creature with both undying and persist, when the creature dies both abilities will trigger (if there were no counters were on it). You decide the order to stack them. When the last ability will resolve first it will return the creature and place the appropriate counter on it. The other ability will do nothing because the creature won't be in your gy anymore.
tl;dr. You do one or the other, not both. And a 1/1 with persist is probably not a stellar idea. 😜
Yes but the 1/1 comes back with the plus ones so now he dies he cannot come back again with undying correct? So I have him come back with persists so he dies again so now can I bring him back with undying or is he gone forever.
Quote from: Rass on February 04, 2012, 12:14:16 PM
Yes but the 1/1 comes back with the plus ones so now he dies he cannot come back again with undying correct? So I have him come back with persists so he dies again so now can I bring him back with undying or is he gone forever.
Yeah, that would work. Undying checks to see if he had a +1/+1 at TOD (time of death XD). If persist brought it back, then it would die being a 0/0 and undying would brin it back as a 2/2.
Cool thanks that's what I thought
Quote from: JakeyWakey on January 31, 2012, 11:59:04 PM
Quote from: Theroguard on January 31, 2012, 05:26:59 PM
Judge are not always right I'm having a fight with my judge about lifelink
Use this app as a judge, if you have a question, type a keyword in the search bar, it's worth it, I had a guy try to flip a Dfc during combat somehow, don't really remember the exact action, but he is suppose to be training to be a judge, and he was wrong, trust no one, unless you're at a wizards tournament, prolly not a good idea to pick fights.
Do you know what card he was trying to flip? Because if it was a werewolf it is possible to flip them during combat with {moonmist}
I