If you cast a spell, let's just say {Unsummon} for now (irrelevant),then play {Increasing Vengance} targeting it, and another {Increasing Vengance} targeting the first Vengance, then have the Vengance copies copy eachother over and over again, can you get infinite storm?
Yes.
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Nevermind wasn't thinking right...ty maximo.
There CAN be incinite spells on the stack, but only TWO of those will be spells you actually cast. So only 2 storms. Sadface.
Lmao this is a stupid funny combo for commander!
Copy =/= cast. It doesn't work for storm.
RESOLVED
Ah, forgot the wording for storm....lmao shouldn't be typing this late. But I can still redeem myself lol.
Cast {Increasing Vengeance} on a spell.
Cast another one and copy the first one.
Create infinite spells on the stack.
****Exile them with {Nivmagus Elemental}****
{Artful Dodge}
Win.
Quote from: Coffee Vampire on December 03, 2012, 01:51:03 AM
Ah, forgot the wording for storm....lmao shouldn't be typing this late. But I can still redeem myself lol.
Cast {Increasing Vengeance} on a spell.
Cast another one and copy the first one.
Create infinite spells on the stack.
****Exile them with {Frostburn Weird}****
{Artful Dodge}
Win.
{Nivmagus Elemental}, not frostburn?
Quote from: swallowtail on December 03, 2012, 01:54:23 AM
Quote from: Coffee Vampire on December 03, 2012, 01:51:03 AM
Ah, forgot the wording for storm....lmao shouldn't be typing this late. But I can still redeem myself lol.
Cast {Increasing Vengeance} on a spell.
Cast another one and copy the first one.
Create infinite spells on the stack.
****Exile them with {Frostburn Weird}****
{Artful Dodge}
Win.
{Blistercoil Weird}, not frostburn?
Yeah edited. Man why did they have to make so many weirds
Oh we were both wrong it is nivmagus elemental. Edited again. Zzzz
Lol...
Combo only works with a flashback vengeance, otherwise each vengeance completely resolves to create the next one, and so on.
No. Because the first storm is copying the unsummon and the second vengeance is copying the first. So I think it would end up like this
Unsummon+unsummon+unsummon
Because nothing is targeting the second vengeance
From the graveyard it could look like this
Unsummon+unsummon+unsummon
+unsummon+unsummon+unsummon+
unsummon
Throw in {Izzet guildmage} and {training grounds} targeting the last vengeance and it just gets silly crazy
Copying a flashed back increasing vengeance will not copy the flashback ability.
Quote from: Coffee Vampire on December 03, 2012, 07:54:58 AM
Copying a flashed back increasing vengeance will not copy the flashback ability.
It's not copying the flashback ability...you flash it back, copy unsummon, 2 unsummons. Flashback the other, copy the first increasing vengeance with the second. 2 more unsummons from the first copy of the first vengeance, 2 more unsummons with the second copy of the first vengeance
I didnt bother to read to closely, so sorry if this was already mentioned, casting and copying are to very different things. If you cast {unsummon} and {reverberate} you have cast two spells, {reverberate} and other copy spells only count as one spell even when they resolve.
Quote from: Kaleo42 on December 03, 2012, 11:22:37 AM
I didnt bother to read to closely, so sorry if this was already mentioned, casting and copying are to very different things. If you cast {unsummon} and {reverberate} you have cast two spells, {reverberate} and other copy spells only count as one spell even when they resolve.
{increasing vengeance} says you can copy target spell twice from flashback
Quote from: Birdbrain on December 03, 2012, 11:25:41 AM
Quote from: Kaleo42 on December 03, 2012, 11:22:37 AM
I didnt bother to read to closely, so sorry if this was already mentioned, casting and copying are to very different things. If you cast {unsummon} and {reverberate} you have cast two spells, {reverberate} and other copy spells only count as one spell even when they resolve.
{increasing vengeance} says you can copy target spell twice from flashback
Whats your point? Copying still isnt casting.
Actually it's 3. The initial spell, the reverberate and the copy it makes. It's only 2 spells cast, but its 3 spells.
Quote from: Kaleo42 on December 03, 2012, 11:28:26 AM
Quote from: Birdbrain on December 03, 2012, 11:25:41 AM
Quote from: Kaleo42 on December 03, 2012, 11:22:37 AM
I didnt bother to read to closely, so sorry if this was already mentioned, casting and copying are to very different things. If you cast {unsummon} and {reverberate} you have cast two spells, {reverberate} and other copy spells only count as one spell even when they resolve.
{increasing vengeance} says you can copy target spell twice from flashback
Whats your point? Copying still isnt casting.
I fail to see how that matters
In the rulings, it says something about modal spells (ex. Spells with choose one) and copying those modes. I think the cast from GY is a mode and each time you copy it it replicates that condition of flashback for double copy
It seems that way but it is not a mode. Just google it it is a common question asked all over the internet. Not trying to say you are dumb or anything, just citing the internet :)
Well this topic was resolved in the fourth post by Maximo...no you cannot use increasing vengeance twice from your hand to get infinite storm, cause storm checks how many spells you cast, not how many were put onto the stack.
RESOLVED, +1 maximo
Why does it say "copy that spell twice instead" when it's cast from the graveyard?
Quote from: Birdbrain on December 03, 2012, 01:49:41 PM
Why does it say "copy that spell twice instead" when it's cast from the graveyard?
Because that is it's effect. If you cast {lightning bolt} and then {increasing vengeance} from you hand then it copies the bolt making two bolts on the stack. If you flash it back instead then you get 3 bolts on the stack. No matter what you only cast to spells so a grape shot will only copy twice.
Quote from: Kaleo42 on December 03, 2012, 02:21:12 PM
Quote from: Birdbrain on December 03, 2012, 01:49:41 PM
Why does it say "copy that spell twice instead" when it's cast from the graveyard?
Because that is it's effect. If you cast {lightning bolt} and then {increasing vengeance} from you hand then it copies the bolt making two bolts on the stack. If you flash it back instead then you get 3 bolts on the stack. No matter what you only cast to spells so a grape shot will only copy twice.
so what if you cast an {increasing vengeance} from the graveyard on an {increasing vengeance} from the graveyard. That is what I was talking about
You will get to copy a spell up to 4 times.
You get two copies from flashed back vengeance. You get 2 more from copying it twice with other flashed back vengeance.
The reason you don't get 4 from the second one is you didn't cast the flashed back copy from the graveyard; you just copied it. It doesn't make much logical sense but that's how it is.
To provide a more simple example with the same components, say you flashed back {Increasing Confusion} for 1. So your opponent will mill 2 (1*2). Now you copy it with increasing vengeance. Your opponent will only mill 1 more. Not 2 more. This is because when you copied the increasing confusion, the game said: "did he cast it from the graveyard? Nope, he didn't cast it at all, it's just a copy created on the stack. His opponent only mills 1, because x =1."
Does that help make sense?
Quote from: Coffee Vampire on December 03, 2012, 02:45:16 PM
You will get to copy a spell up to 4 times.
You get two copies from flashed back vengeance. You get 2 more from copying it twice with other flashed back vengeance.
The reason you don't get 4 from the second one is you didn't cast the flashed back copy from the graveyard; you just copied it. It doesn't make much logical sense but that's how it is.
To provide a more simple example with the same components, say you flashed back {Increasing Confusion} for 1. So your opponent will mill 2 (1*2). Now you copy it with increasing vengeance. Your opponent will only mill 1 more. Not 2 more. This is because when you copied the increasing confusion, the game said: "did he cast it from the graveyard? Nope, he didn't cast it at all, it's just a copy created on the stack. His opponent only mills 1, because x =1."
Does that help make sense?
the simpler explanation wasn't needed
Glad I could help :)
Quote from: Coffee Vampire on December 03, 2012, 07:53:42 PM
Glad I could help :)
Isn't that what this community is for? And This is my last post in this thread unless it gets revived again with some twist
It's a conspiracy that goes all the way to the top