Hey Jester, so this is an entirely different question altogether, but if a flipped card gets {Oblivion Ring}ed, will it return as the flipped side? This is a different circumstance that doesn't deal with exiled cards, but I know that if a Kamigawa flip card (let's say, {Kitsune Mystic}) gets copied somehow when it's on the flip side î,,({Autumn-Tail, Kitsune Sage}), and the copier somehow aquires a new legal, flippable target (say, {Nezumi Graverobber}), the copy will end up automatically being on the flip side ({Nighteyes The Descecrator}) when the copying resolves due to the fact that the copier had the state of "flipped" already. Would this even be near the same thing? (And does the copying, retargeting stuff work with these new flip-cards?)
Quote from: InfinitiveDivinity on January 16, 2012, 12:56:10 PM
Hey Jester, so this is an entirely different question altogether, but if a flipped card gets {Oblivion Ring}ed, will it return as the flipped side? This is a different circumstance that doesn't deal with exiled cards, but I know that if a Kamigawa flip card (let's say, {Kitsune Mystic}) gets copied somehow when it's on the flip side î,,({Autumn-Tail, Kitsune Sage}), and the copier somehow aquires a new legal, flippable target (say, {Nezumi Graverobber}), the copy will end up automatically being on the flip side ({Nighteyes The Descecrator}) when the copying resolves due to the fact that the copier had the state of "flipped" already. Would this even be near the same thing? (And does the copying, retargeting stuff work with these new flip-cards?)
It returns to the "normal" side I presume.
Excellent questions!
Quote from: InfinitiveDivinity on January 16, 2012, 12:56:10 PM
Hey Jester, so this is an entirely different question altogether, but if a flipped card gets {Oblivion Ring}ed, will it return as the flipped side?
Any permanent that enters the battlefield will come in with the default status: untapped, unflipped, face-up, phased-in unless a spell or ability says otherwise. Statuses - (tapped/untapped, flipped/unflipped, face-up/face-down, phased in/phased out)
{Flicker} effects are great for unmorphing and unflipping permanents.
Quote from: InfinitiveDivinity on January 16, 2012, 12:56:10 PM
This is a different circumstance that doesn't deal with exiled cards, but I know that if a Kamigawa flip card (let's say, {Kitsune Mystic}) gets copied somehow when it's on the flip side î,,({Autumn-Tail, Kitsune Sage}), and the copier somehow aquires a new legal, flippable target (say, {Nezumi Graverobber}), the copy will end up automatically being on the flip side ({Nighteyes The Descecrator}) when the copying resolves due to the fact that the copier had the state of "flipped" already. Would this even be near the same thing? (And does the copying, retargeting stuff work with these new flip-cards?)
Just to clarify a little, status is not something that can be copied, but I know that is not what you are asking.
So, let's say you have a {Cryptoplasm} on the battlefield that is a copy of {Kitsune Mystic} flipped to {Autumn-Tail, Kitsune Sage}. The next turn you target an unflipped {Nezumi Graverobber} with your {Cryptoplasm}'s ability. The 'plasm will become a {Nighteyes, The Descecrator} because it has the"flipped" status. In fact, it will keep that status until something changes it. Just as you've said.
This is different from DFC (double faced cards) because transforming is an action, not a status. For all intents and purposes, DFCs are "sunny-side up" unless they are on the battlefield and have been transformed. Once they have, all that exists is their "Over-easy" side. Thing is, unless a card has another face, it can't transform.
Say you use {Cryptoplasm} again on {Homicidal Brute}, {Civilized Scholar}'s other half. The 'plasm will only see the Brute and that's what it will copy. It will not be able to transform into anything since it only has one face. (No, {Two-Headed Giant of Foriys} does not count as having "two faces". ;) ) It can still copy other creatures, though.
Now, if you turn one DFC into
another DFC (say using {Cytoplasm}), then the 'copied-over creature' can transform. However, even though it transformed, the game still sees it as the same card and so the copy effect will still be in place.
Example:
{Civilized Scholar} and {Ludevic's Test Subject} are on the battlefield. You {Mirrorweave} targetting {Civilized Scholar}. Now, you can tap the old Test subject to draw a card. If you discard a creature card, the test subject will untap, and transform into....{Civilized Scholar}. Huh?? ??? The {Mirrorweave} will still copy over the card, even though the {Ludevic's Abomination} side is up.
The good news, when the copy effect wears off, you'll have a fresh 13/13 to play with. I use this in my Cheating the Test deck here:
http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php/topic,871.msg5100.html#msg5100
tl;dr
-flip is a status, transform is an action.
-on the battlefield, the game only cares about the side that's up at the moment; any other zone, the sun-side is all that is counted
Hope that covers everything.
Thanks dude! I actually had that question come up and I wasn't sure how to answer î,,
Quote from: Rass on January 16, 2012, 08:52:10 PM
Oh man another one of these
Don't worry, I put the Cliff Notes at the end just for you, Raz. 😜