iMtG Server: Gathering

Magic (The Gathering) => Rules => Topic started by: Double-O-Scotch on October 23, 2012, 11:31:05 AM

Title: Mind control
Post by: Double-O-Scotch on October 23, 2012, 11:31:05 AM
What would happen if I used {mind control} on {karona, false god}
Title: Re: Mind control
Post by: Wackaman9001 on October 23, 2012, 11:58:34 AM
It would still get passed around, it's like mind controlling a creature already hit by another mind control I think
Title: Re: Mind control
Post by: Double-O-Scotch on October 23, 2012, 12:21:40 PM
Ok, so does karona's ability circumvent the aura on it?
Example: I cast mind control on karona, gain control of her, but on everyone's upkeep they gain control of her and that's it? Or does it go back to the control of the person who cast it after a "state-based check"?
Title: Re: Mind control
Post by: Double-O-Scotch on October 23, 2012, 12:40:01 PM
Not sure on how the rules work for this...
Title: Re: Mind control
Post by: Maximo on October 23, 2012, 01:13:56 PM
Karona herself says you're gonna lose her to the next person in line, so you do, Mind Control or not. You gain control, then you lose control.
Title: Re: Mind control
Post by: Wackaman9001 on October 23, 2012, 01:16:20 PM
Hmm you have a good point they gain control but that is overridden by your mind control...
Title: Re: Mind control
Post by: Double-O-Scotch on October 23, 2012, 02:16:25 PM
So other than the initial turn that you would gain control of enchanted creature, karona's own ability would make that null and void the second someone's upkeep came? Ok that makes sense. Thanks guys.
Title: Re: Mind control
Post by: Fenster on October 23, 2012, 02:32:04 PM
I played Jaces deck against a jace deck in dotp 12 and i cast a {mindcontrol} on him then my opponent however cast {cultural exchange} targeting the mindcontrolled creature from him. But when it resolved i got control of it back again.
I always thought that {Mind control} as the supreme ruler. One to rule them all! :P
Title: Re: Mind control
Post by: Double-O-Scotch on October 23, 2012, 02:35:36 PM
Ok, so now I'm confused again... 😕
Title: Re: Mind control
Post by: Fenster on October 23, 2012, 02:41:44 PM
We need a rules adivsor :P
I thought mindcontrol was a static statebased ability.
Title: Re: Mind control
Post by: whitedrake on October 23, 2012, 03:37:33 PM
Quote from: Fenster on October 23, 2012, 02:41:44 PM
We need a rules adivsor :P
I thought mindcontrol was a static statebased ability.

You do not get one thing..;)

U will always get control over the creature but u will never get control over equipments and auras attached to the creature...;)

The aura is still controlled by her caster...;)

Anyway in this case mind control have no effect anyway bcs even mind control cannot cancel her ability to move... Check the definition of local enchantments...;)
Title: Re: Mind control
Post by: Fenster on October 23, 2012, 03:55:13 PM
Quote from: whitedrake on October 23, 2012, 03:37:33 PM
Quote from: Fenster on October 23, 2012, 02:41:44 PM
We need a rules adivsor :P
I thought mindcontrol was a static statebased ability.

You do not get one thing..;)

U will always get control over the creature but u will never get control over equipments and auras attached to the creature...;)

The aura is still controlles by her caster...;)

Imho in this case mind control have no effect anyway bcs even mind control cannot cancel her ability to move... Check the definition of local enchantments...;)
I dont know exactly what you mean but i think this is what would happen with both korona and trecherous act.
Korona triggers. Control is given away. State is checked. Mindcontrol is seen. Owner of mindcontrol's owner gets her back.
Title: Re: Mind control
Post by: whitedrake on October 23, 2012, 04:04:50 PM
Check rule 613.8...;)
Title: Re: Mind control
Post by: Fenster on October 23, 2012, 04:13:55 PM
But korona and act arent continous?
Perhaps it is what makes it not possible.
Title: Re: Mind control
Post by: whitedrake on October 23, 2012, 04:14:38 PM
According to the rules...
Gain control effects resolve in second layer according to the timestamp of the effect...

Means Mind Control gives control and after that new stamped ability of the vreature..;)
Title: Re: Mind control
Post by: whitedrake on October 23, 2012, 04:18:12 PM
Quote from: Fenster on October 23, 2012, 04:13:55 PM
But korona and act arent continous?
Perhaps it is what makes it not possible.

But in that rule is also said that the same process is applied also on effects with duration...;)
Title: Re: Mind control
Post by: Fenster on October 23, 2012, 04:20:05 PM
"You control enchanted creature"
i just assume the enchantment checks itself as a state based action. As long as the creature is enchanted, that is.
Title: Re: Mind control
Post by: whitedrake on October 23, 2012, 04:27:53 PM
Quote from: Fenster on October 23, 2012, 04:20:05 PM
"You control enchanted creature"
i just assume the enchantment checks itself as a state based action. As long as the creature is enchanted, that is.

And controlling the creature by local enchantment doesn't prevent the creature from changing its controller...
Title: Re: Mind control
Post by: Fenster on October 23, 2012, 04:31:52 PM
But the enchantment is still there? And the resolved spell is not. I understand what you mean. But doesnt enchantments work like static abilities?
Title: Re: Mind control
Post by: Double-O-Scotch on October 23, 2012, 04:37:26 PM
Lol, I could really use a gavel here, guys.
Title: Re: Mind control
Post by: whitedrake on October 23, 2012, 04:38:27 PM
See that creature changes its controller form upkeep to upkeep... If there would be no enchantment on her the controller would be caster... And the enchantment only states new controller... But it cannot prevent changing of control based on another effect...
Title: Re: Mind control
Post by: Fenster on October 23, 2012, 04:38:41 PM
I know i've never hit such a big dead end!
Title: Re: Mind control
Post by: whitedrake on October 23, 2012, 04:43:34 PM
Found this thread on MTGS...

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=284442
Title: Re: Mind control
Post by: Fenster on October 23, 2012, 04:45:47 PM
I would guess thats as much of a gavel we can get!
Title: Re: Mind control
Post by: whitedrake on October 23, 2012, 04:48:37 PM
Quote from: Double-O-Scotch on October 23, 2012, 04:37:26 PM
Lol, I could really use a gavel here, guys.

:D
Title: Re: Mind control
Post by: whitedrake on October 23, 2012, 04:51:47 PM
Quote from: Fenster on October 23, 2012, 04:45:47 PM
I would guess thats as much of a gavel we can get!

Hehe did not believe me and my rule explanation but if it is on mtgs then...:D

Anyway I discussed similar problem few years ago...;) but it was about control magic and do not remember what exactly was the second card...;) but the problem was pretty same...:)
Title: Re: Mind control
Post by: Fenster on October 23, 2012, 04:52:35 PM
Nah if 3 guys plus you are saying it is that way ill believe it.
Title: Re: Mind control
Post by: whitedrake on October 23, 2012, 04:57:20 PM
Quote from: Fenster on October 23, 2012, 04:52:35 PM
Nah if 3 guys plus you are saying it is that way ill believe it.

:D yep I get that...;)
Title: Re: Mind control
Post by: Greg54js on October 23, 2012, 06:48:28 PM
Yeah so short version:

DON'T EVER FREAKING {MIND CONTROL} {KARONA FALSE GOD}!!!!
Title: Re: Mind control
Post by: Double-O-Scotch on October 23, 2012, 10:03:32 PM
Cool. Thanks guys.
Title: Re: Mind control
Post by: whitedrake on October 24, 2012, 01:09:06 AM
U r welcome...:D
Title: Re: Mind control
Post by: Anoobass on February 20, 2015, 11:36:42 PM
Bump for taysby.