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Magic (The Gathering) => Rules => Topic started by: Double-O-Scotch on October 16, 2012, 10:16:05 AM

Title: Token ownership
Post by: Double-O-Scotch on October 16, 2012, 10:16:05 AM
If I activate {homeward path} do I gain control of tokens my opponents control with {forbidden orchard} and {beast within}?
Title: Re: Token ownership
Post by: Coffee Vampire on October 16, 2012, 10:19:08 AM
No, because you never owned them; they came onto the battlefield under your opponent's control, and were never controlled or cast by you.

By the way, props if you are using orchard! One of my fav lands :)
Title: Re: Token ownership
Post by: Double-O-Scotch on October 16, 2012, 11:24:27 AM
Got the foil {forbidden orchard} from the vaults to go with the foil {exotic orchard} I pulled. Lol. Clarification. It's says you own it if you cast it, so what about {beast within}?
Title: Re: Token ownership
Post by: Coffee Vampire on October 16, 2012, 11:36:20 AM
While you did cast the spell that created the token, it states that the controller of the permanent destroyed puts the token into play. If you opponent's permanent was destroyed, he or she owns the token that he or she puts onto the battlefield.
Title: Re: Token ownership
Post by: Ghebert on October 16, 2012, 12:12:13 PM
But forbidden orchard says that YOU put it on the battlefield under your opponents control.
Title: Re: Token ownership
Post by: Ghebert on October 16, 2012, 01:06:34 PM
Quote from: Testset on October 16, 2012, 12:48:16 PM
Still works with {Blood Seeker}, or were you talking about something else?

Was referring to the OP and ownership.
Title: Re: Token ownership
Post by: Double-O-Scotch on October 16, 2012, 01:33:21 PM
Quote from: Ghebert on October 16, 2012, 12:12:13 PM
But forbidden orchard says that YOU put it on the battlefield under your opponents control.
My thoughts exactly!
Title: Re: Token ownership
Post by: Coffee Vampire on October 16, 2012, 03:06:14 PM
Okay here is a sinple way to know ownership...I don't think there are ANY exceptions to this rule:

When a permanent comes into play, the player to which it came into play on is the player that owns that permanent.

The wording on {Forbidden Orchard} can be confusing, but it makes more sense when you remember this rule. Just remember that whichever player controlled the token when it first entered the battlefield is the owner.
Title: Re: Token ownership
Post by: Double-O-Scotch on October 16, 2012, 03:28:17 PM
Thanks for the gavel CV. It was a bit confusing.
Title: Re: Token ownership
Post by: D3g3n on October 17, 2012, 05:37:46 PM
Quote from: Coffee Vampire on October 16, 2012, 03:06:14 PM
Okay here is a sinple way to know ownership...I don't think there are ANY exceptions to this rule:

When a permanent comes into play, the player to which it came into play on is the player that owns that permanent.

The wording on {Forbidden Orchard} can be confusing, but it makes more sense when you remember this rule. Just remember that whichever player controlled the token when it first entered the battlefield is the owner.

Unless its something like {Bribery}.
The creature is under the control of the one who casts Bribery (controller), but its owner is the one whose library the controller took it from.
Title: Re: Token ownership
Post by: Coffee Vampire on October 17, 2012, 09:03:37 PM
Thanks for pointing that out. One card I play, {Stolen Goods}, works like that.
Title: Re: Token ownership
Post by: Jroch314 on October 18, 2012, 03:30:38 AM
Just for clarification, the owner of a token is whoever controlled it first? Ik as far as bribery the owner is the owner of the card, or whose deck it came out of if you are playing with someone else's deck.
Title: Re: Token ownership
Post by: D3g3n on October 18, 2012, 03:41:05 AM
Quote from: Jroch314 on October 18, 2012, 03:30:38 AM
Just for clarification, the owner of a token is whoever controlled it first? Ik as far as bribery the owner is the owner of the card, or whose deck it came out of if you are playing with someone else's deck.
See rule 110.5a
Since the m10 rule change, whoever the controller that the token enters the battlefield under, is also the owner of that token.