iMtG Server: Gathering

Vampire 70 cards, 14 sideboard 4 {Rakdos Guildgate} 4 {Blood Crypt} 4 {Dragonskull Summit} 10 {Swamp} 4 {Mountain} 26 lands 2 {Falkenrath Aristocrat} 4 {Rakdos Cackler} 4 {Bloodline Keeper} 4 {Blood Artist} 4 {Vampire Nighthawk} 2 {Olivia Voldaren} 2 {Vampire Nocturnus} 22 creatures 2 {Sign in Blood} 3 {Rakdos's Return} 3 {Dreadbore} 8 other spells Sideboard 4 {Rakdos Charm} 4 {Abrupt Decay} 2 {Slaughter Games} 4 {Overgrown Tomb} 14 sideboard cards Notes:

I personally would -2 {Olivia Voldaren} (drawing 2-3 legendary creatures while you have a copy on the field sucks) and -2 {Vampire Nighthawk} (he's honestly not that strong) and +4 {Falkenrath Aristocrat} your removal seems weak, if $ isn't an issue I'd get the one sided earthquakes in there instead

I disagree, the nighthawk is brutal, especially when he gets first strike and +1 from the captain. He really slows down anything that might be considering attacking until you can use Olivia to pull them over to your side.
I do agree on lowering Olivia to 3 tho. She's a huge target, so most likely she will be removed. You then replace. And yeah it would suck if you were caught holding 2 more.

With the amount of board wipes in the coming meta, I believe indestructible > deathtouch. Pre-M13 Nighthawk never saw standard play because you are paying 3 mana for a 2/3, I could definitely see him as a sideboard card though. Haste + flying + sac engine + indestructible is too good not have in my opinion

How about as 3 mana for a 3/4 flying first strike death touch? Still not good enough?

Also I wasn't advocating against the falkenrath, rather for the nighthawk, especially in this lineup. I'd say just need to find room elsewhere.

-2 Olivia
-1 keeper
+2 aristocrat
+1 noctornus

Quote from: Chadgamer on October 04, 2012, 03:57:52 AM
With the amount of board wipes in the coming meta, I believe indestructible > deathtouch. Pre-M13 Nighthawk never saw standard play because you are paying 3 mana for a 2/3, I could definitely see him as a sideboard card though. Haste + flying + sac engine + indestructible is too good not have in my opinion

Oh please do not compare those two cards...;) falk is good card but u cannot compare it with nighthawk... First of all rarity of the cards, second the cost of indestructibility...

Of course both cards have the place in the deck... But I would never cut nighthawk to 2 cards because of falken...

Quote from: Chadgamer on October 04, 2012, 03:57:52 AM
With the amount of board wipes in the coming meta, I believe indestructible > deathtouch. Pre-M13 Nighthawk never saw standard play because you are paying 3 mana for a 2/3, I could definitely see him as a sideboard card though. Haste + flying + sac engine + indestructible is too good not have in my opinion

When did you start playing?

Cause nighthawk wasn't around for m12 cause he wasn't standard but in m11/zendikar, he was everywhere cause he is one of the best 3 drops in the game especially for an uncommon

2/3 flying deathtouch and lifelink?

Then with a captain on the board 3/4 with all that and first strike

But wait, he isn't good right? Please

Night hawk was a standard staple for black back in zendikar he is amazing

Whoa... Chill out everyone, I wasn't saying Nighthawk was a bad card, I'm saying that cutting Nighthawk for a much better card is worth it in my opinion. We'll see what the top B/R decks look like next week and ill let those lists speak for me.

Quote from: Chadgamer on October 04, 2012, 06:02:05 PM
Whoa... Chill out everyone, I wasn't saying Nighthawk was a bad card, I'm saying that cutting Nighthawk for a much better card is worth it in my opinion. We'll see what the top B/R decks look like next week and ill let those lists speak for me.

This isn't a b/r deck

It's a vampire deck

Big difference

Quote from: Mothaelon on October 04, 2012, 06:16:39 PM

Quote from: Chadgamer on October 04, 2012, 06:02:05 PM
Whoa... Chill out everyone, I wasn't saying Nighthawk was a bad card, I'm saying that cutting Nighthawk for a much better card is worth it in my opinion. We'll see what the top B/R decks look like next week and ill let those lists speak for me.

This isn't a b/r deck

It's a vampire deck

Big difference

Point being? Next week the results of thousands of FNM/weekend tourneys will be published, and I'm more than willing to bet any and probably all top B/R decks(vampire or not) will run Aristocrat and very few will have Nighthawk. Until that time however, this is a pointless discussion

Quote from: Chadgamer on October 04, 2012, 06:20:37 PM

Quote from: Mothaelon on October 04, 2012, 06:16:39 PM

Quote from: Chadgamer on October 04, 2012, 06:02:05 PM
Whoa... Chill out everyone, I wasn't saying Nighthawk was a bad card, I'm saying that cutting Nighthawk for a much better card is worth it in my opinion. We'll see what the top B/R decks look like next week and ill let those lists speak for me.

This isn't a b/r deck

It's a vampire deck

Big difference

Point being? Next week the results of thousands of FNM/weekend tourneys will be published, and I'm more than willing to bet any and probably all top B/R decks(vampire or not) will run Aristocrat and very few will have Nighthawk. Until that time however, this is a pointless discussion

Cause you are making a point in a vampire themed deck about a different themed deck
That's how

Of course aristocrat is better in a red
Black deck, but this isn't a red/black Aggro deck

It's a vampire deck

Quote from: Mothaelon on October 04, 2012, 06:16:39 PM

Cause you are making a point in a vampire themed deck about a different themed deck
That's how

Of course aristocrat is better in a red
Black deck, but this isn't a red/black Aggro deck

It's a vampire deck

ARISTOCRAT IS A VAMPIRE. He's better in both cases, your argument is invalid

No because you were arguing for Red black, plus I never said aristocrat was bad, I was saying nighthawk is good for a VAMPIRE deck, and how you said he wasn't good for. a RED/BLACK.deck, I was saying the DIFFERENCES IN THE DECK doesn't constitute you saying nighthawk is bad for his VAMPIRE deck

Quote from: Mothaelon on October 04, 2012, 09:10:49 PM
No because you were arguing for Red black, plus I never said aristocrat was bad, I was saying nighthawk is good for a VAMPIRE deck, and how you said he wasn't good for. a RED/BLACK.deck, I was saying the DIFFERENCES IN THE DECK doesn't constitute you saying nighthawk is bad for his VAMPIRE deck

I didn't say Nighthawk was bad, I said Aristocrat is better, because he is. The only reason a vamp deck wouldn't play Aristocrat is if they were mono black, this guy isn't and Aristocrat is loads better than Nighthawk when you compare the two. I didn't go off saying nighthawk is bad for his deck so I don't know where you're getting your argument from

I do not like aristocrat

{Vampire Nighthawk} is a ridiculously amazing card. Period.

On the other hand, Aristocrat is also amazing, but to compare the two isn't fair. One is a 3 drop, the other a 4 drop. One kills close to everything and gives you an advantage with the extra health, the other survives wraths, and is a fast attacker, but can also be chump blocked very easily. Honestly, I run both, and put Olivia in the sideboard. Olivia comes in against 1/1 flying tokens and heavy Aggro decks, to control the board better, Aristocrat mainboard due to her heavy aggression.

Quote from: InfinitiveDivinity on October 04, 2012, 10:43:11 PM
{Vampire Nighthawk} is a ridiculously amazing card. Period.

On the other hand, Aristocrat is also amazing, but to compare the two isn't fair. One is a 3 drop, the other a 4 drop. One kills close to everything and gives you an advantage with the extra health, the other survives wraths, and is a fast attacker, but can also be chump blocked very easily. Honestly, I run both, and put Olivia in the sideboard. Olivia comes in against 1/1 flying tokens and heavy Aggro decks, to control the board better, Aristocrat mainboard due to her heavy aggression.

Very good solution...;)

Exactly, side the Liliana's. I personally side the Nighthawks and main Aristocrat, which is what I said to begin with. Sorry we filled this deck discussion with a bunch of pointless ramblings.

Both cards are strong In their own ways. I love nighthawks. I also run a players of aristocrats in my B/R Aggro deck. Both can be pretty busted with captain in play. If your trying to super Aggro than you'd use aristocrat. Aristocrat is only really popular right now do to its excellent interactions with {gravecrawler}, {geralfs messenger} and {blood artist}. I'd say night hawk fits you build better do to the fact that you run olivia MB. Olivia is more controlish and in my opinion wouldn't make sense to run aristocrat and Olivia in the mainboard.