Ok I have read about people flickering fiend hunter to take out two creatures. My question is how is this suppose to work, because when the hunter leaves play the other creature returns?
Fiend hunter uses the stack. He has 2 abilities..one when he enters and one when he leaves. When he enters the battlefield, exile a creature goes on stack. Then if you play {cloud shift} it exiles the fiend hunter and brings him back. Technically the leaving the battlefield never triggered. Thus, you play fiend hunter exiling 1 creature..cloud shift exiling another creature and since he never technicallyleft the first creature stays exiled permanently.
This is my understanding
Because his first ability didn't resolve his second one doesn't trigger? That makes not sense to me.
Well, when he comes back into the battlefield he is recognized as a new fiend hunter. So since he never left, because cloud shifting exiles and comes right back, the creature doesn't come back.
Stack
Fiend hunter etb-exile creature
Cloud shift exiles fiend hunter and brings it back
Board recognized new fiend hunter and is allowed to exile another creature.
His second ability triggers, whilst his first ability is still on the stack and hasn't resolved yet. So after cloudshift resolves, the stack has:
-the ETB from the new Fiend Hunter object
-the LTB from the old Fiend Hunter object
-and the ETB from the old Fiend Hunter object.
Stack resolves top down:
- exile something, will return when Fiend Hunter leaves
- return creature exiled from old Fiend Hunter object; no target so nothing to return?
- exile a creature, to return when old Fiend Hunter object leaves the battlefield.
The old Fiend Hunter object doesn't exist anymore therefore that creature will never return.
But he left the battlefield when exiled. Not seeing how his LtB ability doesn't trigger. Whether he is {ghostly flicker}ed or {cloud shift}ed it shouldn't matter, he left the battlefield. Shouldn't matter for how long, just that he did.
Ok now I see what you are saying, since there is no gap in between on the stack. His second ability doesn't recognize him. Gotcha. Thanks for clearing that up.
Quote from: Xanzurth on August 14, 2012, 11:41:54 PM
But he left the battlefield when exiled. Not seeing how his LtB ability doesn't trigger. Whether he is {ghostly flicker}ed or {cloud shift}ed it shouldn't matter, he left the battlefield. Shouldn't matter for how long, just that he did.
Ecky explained it better than I did.
This has been discussed many many times here on this forum.
Quote from: Xanzurth on August 14, 2012, 11:41:54 PM
But he left the battlefield when exiled. Not seeing how his LtB ability doesn't trigger. Whether he is {ghostly flicker}ed or {cloud shift}ed it shouldn't matter, he left the battlefield. Shouldn't matter for how long, just that he did.
His LtB does trigger every time he leaves, but there is nothing to return if the EtB has not yet resolved. Then when he returns he is a brand new object no longer tied to the EtB ability from before, only the new one.
Hes leaving the battlefield before the first creature has even been exiled.
Good idea, but if youre going that far, just add {guilded lotus}, {deceiver exarch}, and {spellskite} and maybe {sun titan} and you have UW lotus combo which is a fairly strong deck