Untap shuffle algorithm

does anyone else have trouble with the shuffles on Untap? I have decks on there that I also have in real cards. Every time I play it on Untap, I get screwed to bad shuffles. But I play it on real, and get good shuffles. Is there an effective shuffle setting on Untap?

Sometimes you get god hand
Sometimes you get god hates you hand

The only time it's been "consistent" was using 30 lands in a 60 card deck. Which is useless in a real world application

Sometimes you always are on the draw.

And I've noticed this on cockatricke as well. I believe it comes down to the fact that we won't get a good shuffler program unless we pay for it (Mtgo) or we shuffle irl.

I dunno...
Last night I pissed some Aggro deck off by surviving at 1 life with the best top decks to have my coursers pop up and gain me mad life into ugin

Guy quit


He would downfall a courser after I get the land drop/life and on the scry: see I get another courser. I just kept laughing as my hand was filled with BB and downfall from tasigur buy back, so any warriors would not get back, no dash no nothing.

Most of the digital Magic programs use the same algorithm to shuffle. It's literally the most random you can get.
Short explanation of the method:

Number each card 1-60. Pick a random number. That is the bottom card of the deck. Repeat until you're done.

If you get different results in paper it's because you're not truly randomizing your deck when you shuffle.

From my understanding (watching several shows about gambling and slot machines) there is no way a computer can actually "randomize" things.

From my understanding (watching several shows about gambling and slot machines) there is no way a computer can actually "randomize" things.

That's sort of true. Computers use a pseudo random number generator - but for pretty much all purposes related to Magic, it's random.
The reason it's pseudo random is because they use a seed to begin the random number generation. If you know the seed, you can predict all "random" numbers generated by an aolgorithm.

Blaming the shuffler in digital magic is just wrong. Also, it doesn't help to shuffle more in Cockatrice, FYI for those that do that.

Quote from: Rass on May 10, 2015, 10:21:58 AM

From my understanding (watching several shows about gambling and slot machines) there is no way a computer can actually "randomize" things.

That's sort of true. Computers use a pseudo random number generator - but for pretty much all purposes related to Magic, it's random.
The reason it's pseudo random is because they use a seed to begin the random number generation. If you know the seed, you can predict all "random" numbers generated by an aolgorithm.

Blaming the shuffler in digital magic is just wrong. Also, it doesn't help to shuffle more in Cockatrice, FYI for those that do that.

Don't blame the shuffler. I'm sorry but when I run a 17 land affinity deck and draw a 7 land hand then a 5 land hand imma call BS. When I run a 25 land deck and go to turn 10 with only three lands that were in my starting hand imma call BS. I understand that that's a possiblility in the realm of randomness but I make damn sure I shuffle better than that IRL.

Quote from: griffin131 on May 11, 2015, 08:33:04 AM

Quote from: Rass on May 10, 2015, 10:21:58 AM

From my understanding (watching several shows about gambling and slot machines) there is no way a computer can actually "randomize" things.

That's sort of true. Computers use a pseudo random number generator - but for pretty much all purposes related to Magic, it's random.
The reason it's pseudo random is because they use a seed to begin the random number generation. If you know the seed, you can predict all "random" numbers generated by an aolgorithm.

Blaming the shuffler in digital magic is just wrong. Also, it doesn't help to shuffle more in Cockatrice, FYI for those that do that.

Don't blame the shuffler. I'm sorry but when I run a 17 land affinity deck and draw a 7 land hand then a 5 land hand imma call BS. When I run a 25 land deck and go to turn 10 with only three lands that were in my starting hand imma call BS. I understand that that's a possiblility in the realm of randomness but I make damn sure I shuffle better than that IRL.

Well, not to be trolling but if you truly randomize your deck, there's no knowing wether you shuffled 'better'.
True random does not make a distinction between card A being land and card B non land. That 'could' be the difference, however that would implicate some level of, dare I say it, stacking.
Really not pointing fingers or anything. When I have finished a deck I do separate as well, and then make sure everything is shuffled correctly, to minimize mana influencing the fun of playing (casual). Should I shuffle everything correctly, I understood 2 minutes of shuffling all cards on the table or 7 riffle shuffles or 10k+ overhands will get a fully randomized deck.

Quote from: griffin131 on May 11, 2015, 08:33:04 AM

Quote from: Rass on May 10, 2015, 10:21:58 AM

From my understanding (watching several shows about gambling and slot machines) there is no way a computer can actually "randomize" things.

That's sort of true. Computers use a pseudo random number generator - but for pretty much all purposes related to Magic, it's random.
The reason it's pseudo random is because they use a seed to begin the random number generation. If you know the seed, you can predict all "random" numbers generated by an aolgorithm.

Blaming the shuffler in digital magic is just wrong. Also, it doesn't help to shuffle more in Cockatrice, FYI for those that do that.

Don't blame the shuffler. I'm sorry but when I run a 17 land affinity deck and draw a 7 land hand then a 5 land hand imma call BS. When I run a 25 land deck and go to turn 10 with only three lands that were in my starting hand imma call BS. I understand that that's a possiblility in the realm of randomness but I make damn sure I shuffle better than that IRL.

So you've never gotten land or mana screwed in real life?  To quote you, Imma call BS.
Sure, the shuffler dealt you that hand, but that doesn't mean it's bad.

Quote from: LinkCelestrial on May 11, 2015, 01:15:00 PM

Quote from: griffin131 on May 11, 2015, 08:33:04 AM

Quote from: Rass on May 10, 2015, 10:21:58 AM

From my understanding (watching several shows about gambling and slot machines) there is no way a computer can actually "randomize" things.

That's sort of true. Computers use a pseudo random number generator - but for pretty much all purposes related to Magic, it's random.
The reason it's pseudo random is because they use a seed to begin the random number generation. If you know the seed, you can predict all "random" numbers generated by an aolgorithm.

Blaming the shuffler in digital magic is just wrong. Also, it doesn't help to shuffle more in Cockatrice, FYI for those that do that.

Don't blame the shuffler. I'm sorry but when I run a 17 land affinity deck and draw a 7 land hand then a 5 land hand imma call BS. When I run a 25 land deck and go to turn 10 with only three lands that were in my starting hand imma call BS. I understand that that's a possiblility in the realm of randomness but I make damn sure I shuffle better than that IRL.

So you've never gotten land or mana screwed in real life?  To quote you, Imma call BS.
Sure, the shuffler dealt you that hand, but that doesn't mean it's bad.

I get mana screwed/flooded about 1 game in 150 IRL. Untap screws me 1 in 1, unless I overland to an unusable amount

I have to agree with the online formats, irl my main deck gives me a bad starting had every so often,  but not as much as online. I don't have the numbers on me but the sample data was nowhere close to the probabilites. I'll post it later if I can find the file

IRL I get mana screwed. Quite a lot. The last prerelease I went to I flooded three games and got screwed on the last one. (We managed to win the last one because it was 2HG and I bluffed counters all day). I'm not saying that I should never get mana screwed, it happens. But when I plug in a deck and get three lands In my starting hand and nothing else in a 25 land deck that's frustrating. But then it happens twice in a row and on the third one I draw 12 land to 6 nonland it's a bit of a piss off. But this is a common occurrence on Untap.In for me.

IRL I'd say it's about 10% of my games that I get mana screwed. On Untap.In I have gotten mana screwed in 3 of my last 4 games. That's 75%. Sure it's better sometimes, but still.