Foreplay033whatever vs Muggywuggy

He's accusing me of ripping him off in trade

So ill let him write his story right here since he wants to bring it to trial.

Go ahead and tell em foreplay.

Ill post the wall of text conversation that I sent to at least 4 mods.

Edit:
I'm bringing this to trial due to constant harassment from Foreplay after I attempted to resolve our failed trade and a threat of a trial. I welcome the trial.

Here's my evidence I did not rip him off and did my best to resolve the initial situation: this is the entire conversation of our trade. I sent this to several mods.


Gorzo
trade issues
November 29, 2013, 03:59:21 PM
Hey I have a dilemma to take care of with a trade - long story short, I traded with foreplay0333 - i got his end, he never got mine, i definitely sent it out. So we're trying to figure out a solution. I sent this to a few mods, just to get some perspective on the idea. Thank you for your time.

Mug



Long story below:

Trade history:

Quote from: Foreplay0333 on November 03, 2013, 04:23:19 PM
What u want for master and nightveil?

Foreplay0333
Trade Offer 2729
November 03, 2013, 05:01:52 PM
This work?

I'll give you:

Breaking // Entering (Dragon's Maze)
Master of Cruelties (Dragon's Maze)
Master of Cruelties (Dragon's Maze)
Master of Waves (Theros)
Nightveil Specter (Gatecrash)

For your:

Boros Reckoner (Gatecrash)
Phyrexian Hydra (Mirrodin Besieged)
Selesnya Charm (Return to Ravnica)
Soul Tithe (Return to Ravnica)
Merciless Eviction (Gatecrash)
Witchbane Orb (Innistrad)
Stomping Ground (Gatecrash)

      
      Open in Trading

Quote from: Foreplay0333 on November 03, 2013, 07:01:13 PM
Really jump need the waves and specter at the moment... If u minus off the boros reckoner, I'll give u everything else u named for those 2 cards

Quote from: Foreplay0333 on November 03, 2013, 07:02:21 PM
Can even add a couple dollars worth of extra stuff if u want

Foreplay0333
Re: Trade Offer 2729
November 03, 2013, 07:27:16 PM
Kinda wanted the reckoner for my playset :/
Would really like to do the whole lot
Delete

Foreplay0333
Re: Trade Offer 2729
November 03, 2013, 07:27:50 PM
I can do the same for u in adding to sweeten the trade for your end
Re: Trade Offer 2729
November 03, 2013, 07:39:35 PM
I can use a polkranos actually..


Quote from: Foreplay0333 on November 03, 2013, 08:25:18 PM
Would u do your master of waves for Polukranos?
Foreplay0333
Re: Trade Offer 2729
November 03, 2013, 08:31:42 PM
I can't do 1 for 1 sorry

Quote from: Foreplay0333 on November 03, 2013, 08:32:44 PM
I could add a few of those lower valued ones u listed

Quote from: Foreplay0333 on November 04, 2013, 02:19:17 PM
So what u think? Polukranos and maybe a couple of those other cards u named for the master of waves? If u don't plan on doing a mono blue devotion that card is useless for u... Come on! Lol Even a card shop wouldn't do a straight up trade for Polukranos... U'd be lukcy to get 7 bucks for it.... Please please please!! Lol

Quote from: Foreplay0333 on November 04, 2013, 09:33:20 PM
So what's the word? Holding out on this Polukranos if we can work something out or that master of waves




Re: (No subject)
November 04, 2013, 10:31:11 PM

Quote from: Foreplay0333 on November 04, 2013, 09:33:20 PM
So what's the word? Holding out on this Polukranos if we can work something out or that master of waves


How about temple of abandon
Polkranos
Worldbane orb
Selesnya charm
Phyrexian hydra

For master

That's pretty even right there


Quote from: Foreplay0333 on November 04, 2013, 11:08:36 PM
Quote from: Muggywuggy on November 04, 2013, 10:31:11 PM
Quote from: Foreplay0333 on November 04, 2013, 09:33:20 PM
So what's the word? Holding out on this Polukranos if we can work something out or that master of waves

How about temple of abandon
Polkranos
Worldbane orb
Selesnya charm
Phyrexian hydra

For master

That's pretty even right there
Would u do it for temple of mystery or deceit instead of a abandon? Have another guy who wants both for a nightveil... Trying to maximize the cards I can get... If u take one of the other temples I'll even throw in Like an extra rare or uncommon or something

Re: (No subject)
November 04, 2013, 11:22:41 PM

Quote from: Foreplay0333 on November 04, 2013, 11:08:36 PM
Quote from: Muggywuggy on November 04, 2013, 10:31:11 PM
Quote from: Foreplay0333 on November 04, 2013, 09:33:20 PM
So what's the word? Holding out on this Polukranos if we can work something out or that master of waves


How about temple of abandon
Polkranos
Worldbane orb
Selesnya charm
Phyrexian hydra

For master

That's pretty even right there

Would u do it for temple of mystery or deceit instead of a abandon? Have another guy who wants both for a nightveil... Trying to maximize the cards I can get... If u take one of the other temples I'll even throw in Like an extra rare or uncommon or something

Awww
I did need to abandon but I can use a deceit also

If he falls thru I can throw my nightveil in for those temples

Quote from: Foreplay0333 on November 05, 2013, 12:13:33 AM
Well if u have a nightveil I'll just trade for yours then lol

Re: (No subject)
November 05, 2013, 01:05:58 AM

Quote from: Foreplay0333 on November 05, 2013, 12:13:33 AM
Well if u have a nightveil I'll just trade for yours then lol


K so nightveil (9) and master of waves (14.2) and breaking entering for:

Polkranos 9.35 (Theros right?)
Temple of abandon 4
Temple of deceit 5
Temple of mystery 3
Witchbane Orb .6
Selesnya Charm .5
Phyrexian hydra .3
Fabled Hero (saw u had one) 1.3


Quote from: Foreplay0333 on November 05, 2013, 09:01:30 AM
Looks good to me, and Yea Polukranos is theros edition

November 06, 2013, 01:23:49 PM

Quote from: Foreplay0333 on November 05, 2013, 09:01:30 AM
Looks good to me, and Yea Polukranos is theros edition


Cool
My info is

EA
7xx n C ave
Los Angeles ca 90046


Quote from: Foreplay0333 on November 06, 2013, 04:59:22 PM
Sweet my address is
12### K##### forest blvd.
Apt. 26##
Jacksonville, FL 32225

I'll mail yours out tomorrow morning



Foreplay0333
Re: (No subject)
November 06, 2013, 05:11:50 PM

Quote from: Foreplay0333 on November 06, 2013, 04:59:22 PM
Sweet my address is
12### K##### forest blvd.
Apt. 26##
Jacksonville, FL 32225

I'll mail yours out tomorrow morning


Name?


Quote from: Foreplay0333 on November 06, 2013, 05:51:30 PM
Brandon B###


Quote from: Foreplay0333 on November 07, 2013, 01:28:17 PM
Dropped your end in this morning... Thanks again for the trade!


Re: (No subject)
November 15, 2013, 07:46:01 PM
hey just got yours yesterday (thursday) letting you know!

Thanks!

Have you gotten my end yet? I know it may have been delayed due to veterans day

Quote from: Foreplay0333 on November 15, 2013, 11:08:49 PM
Not yet... I'll let u know once it arrives

Quote from: Foreplay0333 on November 16, 2013, 09:26:32 PM
Quote from: Muggywuggy on November 15, 2013, 07:46:01 PM
hey just got yours yesterday (thursday) letting you know!

Thanks!

Have you gotten my end yet? I know it may have been delayed due to veterans day

Alright so I got the card today, but we have an issue... We agreed upon a master of waves, and a nightveil specter for the cards I sent you.. I only received a master of waves in this envelope... Just gunna assume u forgot we had agreed upon that?

Quote from: Foreplay0333 on November 16, 2013, 09:29:10 PM
Quote from: Muggywuggy on November 05, 2013, 01:05:58 AM
Quote from: Foreplay0333 on November 05, 2013, 12:13:33 AM
Well if u have a nightveil I'll just trade for yours then lol

K so nightveil (9) and master of waves (14.2) and breaking entering for:

Polkranos 9.35 (Theros right?)
Temple of abandon 4
Temple of deceit 5
Temple of mystery 3
Witchbane Orb .6
Selesnya Charm .5
Phyrexian hydra .3
Fabled Hero (saw u had one) 1.3
Here was the arrangement I agreed upon...

Quote from: Foreplay0333 on November 16, 2013, 09:35:48 PM
Quote from: Muggywuggy on November 15, 2013, 07:46:01 PM
hey just got yours yesterday (thursday) letting you know!

Thanks!

Have you gotten my end yet? I know it may have been delayed due to veterans day
Haha wait, I haven't gotten your end yet, I forgot I had another trade coming for just the master of waves... False alarm!

Quote from: Foreplay0333 on November 19, 2013, 01:52:03 PM
Still nothing, when did u mail yours out? I've received 2 other trades from guys who sent several days later...unless maybe post office screwed something up


Re: (No subject)
November 19, 2013, 03:29:37 PM
put it out last saturday (before veterans day) So it may have been sorted/picked up by PO on Tuesday but I would imagine it should be there by now - has a 2 equality stamps and is a smaller envelope than standard


Foreplay0333
Re: (No subject)
November 22, 2013, 04:11:34 AM
Anything yet? It's now been well over a week since it left my mailbox

Quote from: Foreplay0333 on November 22, 2013, 10:01:22 AM
Quote from: Muggywuggy on November 22, 2013, 04:11:34 AM
Anything yet? It's now been well over a week since it left my mailbox
Still nothing :-/

Quote from: Foreplay0333 on November 25, 2013, 01:29:42 PM
Quote from: Muggywuggy on November 15, 2013, 07:46:01 PM
hey just got yours yesterday (thursday) letting you know!

Thanks!

Have you gotten my end yet? I know it may have been delayed due to veterans day
Checked mail today, still nothing... Must be lost... Frick and I desperately needed those to finish this deck

Re: (No subject)
November 25, 2013, 02:20:02 PM
Contact your post office because I've never had any of my mail get lost before

It should be a squareish envelope with 2 equality stamps on them, they definitely should have arrived by now unless you live in the boonies 

Those were the only ones I had also

Quote from: Foreplay0333 on November 25, 2013, 08:13:16 PM
Quote from: Muggywuggy on November 25, 2013, 02:20:02 PM
Contact your post office because I've never had any of my mail get lost before

It should be a squareish envelope with 2 equality stamps on them, they definitely should have arrived by now unless you live in the boonies

Those were the only ones I had also
I'll give them a call tomorrow morning and see what they tell me... Maybe it got flagged for w/e reason...

Quote from: Foreplay0333 on November 25, 2013, 08:17:09 PM
Quote from: Muggywuggy on November 25, 2013, 02:20:02 PM
Contact your post office because I've never had any of my mail get lost before

It should be a squareish envelope with 2 equality stamps on them, they definitely should have arrived by now unless you live in the boonies

Those were the only ones I had also

I actually had this happen to me like 3 months ago, but other way around... I sent off cards and the guy never received them... I guess the post office lost them... Or possibly stolen idk... I never got a return to sender either.. Needless to say I wasn't happy at all, I sent the guy back some other cards that we could agree upon to replace the ones lost... Sucked

Quote from: Foreplay0333 on November 29, 2013, 11:54:14 AM
Quote from: Muggywuggy on November 25, 2013, 02:20:02 PM
Contact your post office because I've never had any of my mail get lost before

It should be a squareish envelope with 2 equality stamps on them, they definitely should have arrived by now unless you live in the boonies

Those were the only ones I had also
Just called the post office and they said without a tracking number there is no way to recover a lost or damaged letter... So my guess is it's gone... I don't mind waiting a bit longer just in case but we may want to start discussing an alternative solution



Re: (No subject)
Today at 03:32:46 PM
Gonna ask a few mods of what they suggest

I had something like this happen to me on my first trade:

Sent off a stomping ground to kangarod

He sent me a few cards, awful ones too that I just wanted like helvault, hypersonic dragon and some other things I can't remember. His end came and it was an envelope torn open and empty. I was devastated. Could've been customs, could've been wet from the rain, who knows but basically my end got fucked. He sent me a hypersonic dragon to make up for the loss. Not exactly happy with that, but he did try.

So with that in mind, I'm gonna try to see what the mods say we should do because that sucks those didn't arrive to you, and it sucks more because that $20 worth of trades and I don't have any more specters or masters. 

So I'll contact a few mods and ask what we should do. I'm a trusted traded and I've traded with many users on this forum without problems before and I sent it on Veterans Day weekend so it should definitely be there by now or have returned back to me.

Sorry for the hassle of all of this, kinda absurd to need tracking for a simple letter
Delete

November 15, 2013, 07:46:01 PM
hey just got yours yesterday (thursday) letting you know!

Thanks!

Have you gotten my end yet? I know it may have been delayed due to veterans day

Quote from: Foreplay0333 on November 15, 2013, 11:08:49 PM
Not yet... I'll let u know once it arrives

Quote from: Foreplay0333 on November 16, 2013, 09:26:32 PM
Quote from: Muggywuggy on November 15, 2013, 07:46:01 PM
hey just got yours yesterday (thursday) letting you know!

Thanks!

Have you gotten my end yet? I know it may have been delayed due to veterans day

Alright so I got the card today, but we have an issue... We agreed upon a master of waves, and a nightveil specter for the cards I sent you.. I only received a master of waves in this envelope... Just gunna assume u forgot we had agreed upon that?

Quote from: Foreplay0333 on November 16, 2013, 09:29:10 PM
Quote from: Muggywuggy on November 05, 2013, 01:05:58 AM
Quote from: Foreplay0333 on November 05, 2013, 12:13:33 AM
Well if u have a nightveil I'll just trade for yours then lol

K so nightveil (9) and master of waves (14.2) and breaking entering for:

Polkranos 9.35 (Theros right?)
Temple of abandon 4
Temple of deceit 5
Temple of mystery 3
Witchbane Orb .6
Selesnya Charm .5
Phyrexian hydra .3
Fabled Hero (saw u had one) 1.3
Here was the arrangement I agreed upon...

Quote from: Foreplay0333 on November 16, 2013, 09:35:48 PM
Quote from: Muggywuggy on November 15, 2013, 07:46:01 PM
hey just got yours yesterday (thursday) letting you know!

Thanks!

Have you gotten my end yet? I know it may have been delayed due to veterans day
Haha wait, I haven't gotten your end yet, I forgot I had another trade coming for just the master of waves... False alarm!

Quote from: Foreplay0333 on November 19, 2013, 01:52:03 PM
Still nothing, when did u mail yours out? I've received 2 other trades from guys who sent several days later...unless maybe post office screwed something up


Re: (No subject)
November 19, 2013, 03:29:37 PM
put it out last saturday (before veterans day) So it may have been sorted/picked up by PO on Tuesday but I would imagine it should be there by now - has a 2 equality stamps and is a smaller envelope than standard


Foreplay0333
Re: (No subject)
November 22, 2013, 04:11:34 AM
Anything yet? It's now been well over a week since it left my mailbox

Quote from: Foreplay0333 on November 22, 2013, 10:01:22 AM
Quote from: Muggywuggy on November 22, 2013, 04:11:34 AM
Anything yet? It's now been well over a week since it left my mailbox
Still nothing :-/

Quote from: Foreplay0333 on November 25, 2013, 01:29:42 PM
Quote from: Muggywuggy on November 15, 2013, 07:46:01 PM
hey just got yours yesterday (thursday) letting you know!

Thanks!

Have you gotten my end yet? I know it may have been delayed due to veterans day
Checked mail today, still nothing... Must be lost... Frick and I desperately needed those to finish this deck

Re: (No subject)
November 25, 2013, 02:20:02 PM
Contact your post office because I've never had any of my mail get lost before

It should be a squareish envelope with 2 equality stamps on them, they definitely should have arrived by now unless you live in the boonies 

Those were the only ones I had also

Quote from: Foreplay0333 on November 25, 2013, 08:13:16 PM
Quote from: Muggywuggy on November 25, 2013, 02:20:02 PM
Contact your post office because I've never had any of my mail get lost before

It should be a squareish envelope with 2 equality stamps on them, they definitely should have arrived by now unless you live in the boonies

Those were the only ones I had also
I'll give them a call tomorrow morning and see what they tell me... Maybe it got flagged for w/e reason...

Quote from: Foreplay0333 on November 25, 2013, 08:17:09 PM
Quote from: Muggywuggy on November 25, 2013, 02:20:02 PM
Contact your post office because I've never had any of my mail get lost before

It should be a squareish envelope with 2 equality stamps on them, they definitely should have arrived by now unless you live in the boonies

Those were the only ones I had also

I actually had this happen to me like 3 months ago, but other way around... I sent off cards and the guy never received them... I guess the post office lost them... Or possibly stolen idk... I never got a return to sender either.. Needless to say I wasn't happy at all, I sent the guy back some other cards that we could agree upon to replace the ones lost... Sucked

Quote from: Foreplay0333 on November 29, 2013, 11:54:14 AM
Quote from: Muggywuggy on November 25, 2013, 02:20:02 PM
Contact your post office because I've never had any of my mail get lost before

It should be a squareish envelope with 2 equality stamps on them, they definitely should have arrived by now unless you live in the boonies

Those were the only ones I had also
Just called the post office and they said without a tracking number there is no way to recover a lost or damaged letter... So my guess is it's gone... I don't mind waiting a bit longer just in case but we may want to start discussing an alternative solution



Re: (No subject)
Today at 03:32:46 PM
Gonna ask a few mods of what they suggest

I had something like this happen to me on my first trade:

Sent off a stomping ground to kangarod

He sent me a few cards, awful ones too that I just wanted like helvault, hypersonic dragon and some other things I can't remember. His end came and it was an envelope torn open and empty. I was devastated. Could've been customs, could've been wet from the rain, who knows but basically my end got fucked. He sent me a hypersonic dragon to make up for the loss. Not exactly happy with that, but he did try.

So with that in mind, I'm gonna try to see what the mods say we should do because that sucks those didn't arrive to you, and it sucks more because that $20 worth of trades and I don't have any more specters or masters. 

So I'll contact a few mods and ask what we should do. I'm a trusted traded and I've traded with many users on this forum without problems before and I sent it on Veterans Day weekend so it should definitely be there by now or have returned back to me.

Sorry for the hassle of all of this, kinda absurd to need tracking for a simple letter

How is that proof?

Sounds like Hersay all day.

You're posting a log from trade. Do you have a tracking number?

No tracking.

Okay hmm. I really don't think it's possible man. You may have to just call it.

This happened to me, I literally had no way of getting what I sent back.

 I'm really sorry!

Well they can read it... Whether u sent your end or not I haven't received it, for all I know that's u trying to scam me by offering to send a 2 dollar card as retribution... I never agreed to that and think its a joke.. I told him to make it even he could just send half value that way if the post office did screw up we both lose out on the same amount... I think that is completely fair... I even told him he could just send back Polukranos and keep the rest and we'll call it even... Instead I get ripped off

And I haven't harassed you at all, I found it strange that after you told me you didn't have either of those cards to resend, all of a sudden you have one... Why wasn't I informed and sent it for retribution? Interesting...

I blatantly tried avoiding trials and PMed you telling you that... I wanted to make it right, and you knew good and well I was not ok with what u sent to me as retribution... So whether u bring yourself to the trial or not, you're still a scammer to me until I receive something that we can agree upon

As loosely as you state that I have to send you cards due to you not receiving my end: how can I tell if you actually did get my cards and aren't pulling a ruse? Cards got lost. I've traded for well over a year on this forum, usually sending first with many.

How would you react if you were in my position:

You sent the cards requested
You are told they did not arrive at all
You explain mods situation, they tell you their opinions
You even send a card on that persons needs list to make up for their loss
That person request you send back half of the trade, namely the bulk Of the trade.

What would you do? Keep in mind, you DID send the cards. And you even sent a card to makeup for your cards never arriving, supposedly.

As loosely as you state that I have to send you cards due to you not receiving my end: how can I tell if you actually did get my cards and aren't pulling a ruse? Cards got lost. I've traded for well over a year on this forum, usually sending first with many.

How would you react if you were in my position:

You sent the cards requested
You are told they did not arrive at all
You explain mods situation, they tell you their opinions
You even send a card on that persons needs list to make up for their loss
That person request you send back half of the trade, namely the bulk Of the trade.

What would you do? Keep in mind, you DID send the cards. And you even sent a card to makeup for your cards never arriving, supposedly.

I have been in your situation... Message anoobass and ask him about it... We worked it out and I sent him over half the value of original trade

I was getting to the point I was gunna buy those cards and send them to him with a tracking number to save my rep...

He and I have since even made another successful trade.. So I know very well your side of things... And I know what I had to go thru to make it right! An I did! So don't try and throw that nonsense at me... Complete your trade or don't! Until u do it's all empty words to me

Both of you are trusted member whom I've traded with a few times. I trust that neither of you would pull something like this due to our past dealings. That being said id like to resolve this. I have an extra nightveil laying around collecting dust and would be willing to send it out to the necessary party to squash this trial. Normally I wouldn't do this but as I've said I've trade with and trust you both. Let me know if this is a viable option.

I respect that quite a bit vamp... That's really nice of you

I respect that quite a bit vamp... That's really nice of you

Don't worry about it man. Just give me an address and I'll send it out as soon as I can most likely tmro.