Why vadallion clique should be banned

Ok so yeah this general is easily the best. At 3 cmc it is easy to cast over and over and with his ability and some cheap bounce you can tuck right to the bottom as opponents general as soon as they play it. It's. 3/1 flyer so that's basically a seven turn clock. All the deck needs is him 30 ish counter spells and bounces and some draw power and it's basically unbeatable. I have this deck and have never lost once. And playing against this makes me wanna quit magic. Just saying this should be on the banned list

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Vendilion Clique

And he does seem pretty good but he doesn't seem as unbeatable as u say. But I may be missing something.

Ok so yeah this general is easily the best. At 3 cmc it is easy to cast over and over and with his ability and some cheap bounce you can tuck right to the bottom as opponents general as soon as they play it. It's. 3/1 flyer so that's basically a seven turn clock. All the deck needs is him 30 ish counter spells and bounces and some draw power and it's basically unbeatable. I have this deck and have never lost once. And playing against this makes me wanna quit magic. Just saying this should be on the banned list

Umm, okay, is it cheap?  Check.  Could you bounce it and recast it?  Check.  Could you put their General or Commander on the bottom of their Library?  No.  Before being cast, the commanders live in the Command Zone, not the hand.  Once they hit the Battlefield, the Clique can't touch them.  Clique can only target cards in hand.

Maybe you haven't lost because you are playing it wrongly. 

But, yeah, there's a reason it's worth $30.

@ black jester
That's why the 'bounce' cards are included. You wait for them to cast their general, bounce it to their hand from the field and then use vedallion clique's ability to remove their general from the game. If they built their deck correctly ( based around their general) then they're now in big trouble.

@ black jester
That's why the 'bounce' cards are included. You wait for them to cast their general, bounce it to their hand from the field and then use vedallion clique's ability to remove their general from the game. If they built their deck correctly ( based around their general) then they're now in big trouble.

Gotcha!  Unless their commander has Hexproof like Geist of Saint Traft.

Yup!

I agree that it's strong, but compared the those already on the list, it's not that bad. I
Wouldn't want to play that deck, not for power level reasons, just because it sounds annoying. 😏

And for decks that have hex proof generals, I say to you: phantasmal image. It doesn't target the creature it copies...

The way I see it is once the general is out of the way, mana is saved four counter magic, card draw and protecting clique. If u can keep out flyers it's a seven turn clock...with 35 counters in a deck what can u really do in the end to stop it.

And for decks that have hex proof generals, I say to you: phantasmal image. It doesn't target the creature it copies...

Okay, so that's one answer in a 100 card deck...

Almost a third of the deck is draw power... It wouldn't be as hard as u would think to find

I don't think you'd never find it, only that you'd be spending your resources to dig for it, while your opponent(s) are spending theirs to try and kill you.

The point I'm trying to make here, is that it sounds as though you've gone and made a strong deck around a good Commander and nobody in your meta has come up with a good enough counter-strat.  You may have a case the the Vadallion Clique should be banned, but I would argue against it myself.  thrun, The Last Troll, Geist of Saint Traft, dungrove elder hitting the table would be a problem until you pull an image.

I think it's strong, just not broken.  I'd hate to play it, but I don't know many people who DO like playing against "Mother May I?".

I mean the way u look at it is this, with one two and three mana spells only in the deck, what else would u have to use the excess on turn say 5 or 6 for anyhow most of the draw spells are cantrip and can be played at instant speed at the end of opponents turn. U don't loose the mana if u play it correctly

Quote from: Agrajagzz9 on February 21, 2012, 11:06:33 PM

And for decks that have hex proof generals, I say to you: phantasmal image. It doesn't target the creature it copies...

Okay, so that's one answer in a 100 card deck...