DG's Finally Back With Some Standard Esper Control Goodness!

I am not sure why, but my above post has an issue with the word .sufficiently advanced technology.. Apparently the .sufficiently advanced technology. gods do not want me discussing them either.

I guess .force. is taboo as well.

. . . This is really annoying.

I have the same problem.

Its a piotr april fools joke

Its a piotr april fools joke

Really? In that case well done Piotr! I was so busy I did not even notice it was the first of the month. You have to get up early to fool me, congrats on being one of the few who did.

I am going to update and expand on this after my finals are done with this week. Look forward to the new article on the weekend or beginning of next week.

Realy want to play esper Control but I don't have any sphinx's revalation or snap, any ideas?

Realy want to play esper Control but I don't have any sphinx's revalation or snap, any ideas?

Sadly, you are really out of luck. It may be possible to play a Token list or some kind of Tap Out control. But it would still not be cheap. I can compile a few lists if you are interested . . .

Yes please!

Yes please!

I run an esper control deck, but while I have  Sphinx's Revelation I don't use snaps. My suggestion is to try with  Elixir of Immortality, mixed with draw gives you more options down the line, but is less consistent

Quote from: Potticus on March 28, 2013, 10:21:46 AM

I also disagree with charm. For so many reasons. All those creatures you listed with haste don't bother me. I play 2 blind obedience, if one is out and then say a hellrider comes down it comes in tapped. Next turn when it attacks I top deck it and charm obedience synergy has bought me 4 turns.

I also run 2 obzedat and only 3 sphinx's revelations. This has worked awesomely for me. Even more importantly if I have an extra azorius charm and I don't need it's other two modes I swing with obzedat and lifelink mode making Him give me 7 life this turn. I've also returned my attacking snap caster Mage with one to my hand then played him next turn targeting another card. The charm has more value than you credit it for. I honestly prefer it over think twice early game and late game.

I agree on resto angel I'm not a fan at all. I don't think she's the right card, but she does give a good answer to flying 2/2 or 3/3's.

I sense a common theme of people disagreeing with my choices on Charm. I specifically stated that I feel it works best in a "permission" style control deck. Feel free to share you list if you would like, but I cannot say how well two would work if I have nothing to go off of.  I gave Charm plenty of credit. But with my permission styled list, I felt it was the weakest link and chose to cut those, Angels, and Ultimate Price. If you take care to notice, you will see that I do not run Blind Obedience. Nor do I run Obzedat. I am okay with people disagreeing with me, but if you are going to, then it needs to be on a reasonable ground. Those of you advocating for Charms as far as I know are not playing a more streamlined control list. It is leaning more towards the newer control decks. In my version of this deck, I feel 4 Charm is subpar. It does not generate enough advantage for me, nor does it deal with threats in a consistent manor, and the lifelink clause is useless in my deck since the strongest creature is Snapcaster. I am glad Charm has found a home in the new style control decks. But in an old style like mine which would rather just counter something, it is subpar. I tested this card for a long time because I wanted to play 4. Yet each time I saw it, it just ended up getting cycled into a land or some other spell I could not use.

EDIT: As far as Angel is concerned, why do people run her? I tried it and found it was too slow. Does anybody else have better results with this card? I still don't care for it, but would like to hear other opinions on it. People keep running it, so there must be something to it.

I'm actually with you on the charms, not the biggest fan of them, but I keep them SB with rest in peace for rites decks.

Quote from: Death Gaara on March 28, 2013, 10:51:34 AM

Quote from: Potticus on March 28, 2013, 10:21:46 AM

I also disagree with charm. For so many reasons. All those creatures you listed with haste don't bother me. I play 2 blind obedience, if one is out and then say a hellrider comes down it comes in tapped. Next turn when it attacks I top deck it and charm obedience synergy has bought me 4 turns.

I also run 2 obzedat and only 3 sphinx's revelations. This has worked awesomely for me. Even more importantly if I have an extra azorius charm and I don't need it's other two modes I swing with obzedat and lifelink mode making Him give me 7 life this turn. I've also returned my attacking snap caster Mage with one to my hand then played him next turn targeting another card. The charm has more value than you credit it for. I honestly prefer it over think twice early game and late game.

I agree on resto angel I'm not a fan at all. I don't think she's the right card, but she does give a good answer to flying 2/2 or 3/3's.

I sense a common theme of people disagreeing with my choices on Charm. I specifically stated that I feel it works best in a "permission" style control deck. Feel free to share you list if you would like, but I cannot say how well two would work if I have nothing to go off of.  I gave Charm plenty of credit. But with my permission styled list, I felt it was the weakest link and chose to cut those, Angels, and Ultimate Price. If you take care to notice, you will see that I do not run Blind Obedience. Nor do I run Obzedat. I am okay with people disagreeing with me, but if you are going to, then it needs to be on a reasonable ground. Those of you advocating for Charms as far as I know are not playing a more streamlined control list. It is leaning more towards the newer control decks. In my version of this deck, I feel 4 Charm is subpar. It does not generate enough advantage for me, nor does it deal with threats in a consistent manor, and the lifelink clause is useless in my deck since the strongest creature is Snapcaster. I am glad Charm has found a home in the new style control decks. But in an old style like mine which would rather just counter something, it is subpar. I tested this card for a long time because I wanted to play 4. Yet each time I saw it, it just ended up getting cycled into a land or some other spell I could not use.

EDIT: As far as Angel is concerned, why do people run her? I tried it and found it was too slow. Does anybody else have better results with this card? I still don't care for it, but would like to hear other opinions on it. People keep running it, so there must be something to it.

I'm actually with you on the charms, not the biggest fan of them, but I keep them SB with rest in peace for rites decks.

Check out the updates in my next Article. It will be released later today. Thanks for reading,

DG

Quote from: Dudecore on March 27, 2013, 12:10:20 PM

I could try it. I don't like Syncopate, I prefer Negate or Essence Scatter personally. Syncopate is good for stopping early Farseek and such.

Not finding early doesn't ruin the cards value as far as I'm concerned, the same could be said about any card in their deck, and I'm planning on playing long enough for it not to be an issue. Thragtusk also represents the only time that mode doesn't work profitably, the rest of the time it does, and does well. But what does really stop Thragtusk besides counter magic? You're going to 2 for 1 with him 90% of the time.

I disagree on the argument with Syncopate. Essence Scatter and Negate are too reliant on a given situation. As I stated previously, Syncopate is almost never dead and is a real powerhouse when you go first. I could think of a few other creatures that Azorius Charm is bad against. Allow me to list them.

Swagtusk (Just rolling in all that swag lol).
Restoration Angel (Give the opponent more value? Sure!)
Hellrider (It has haste, so it swings the turn it comes down anyways)
Huntmaster of the Fells (Because players need more value off of this guy right?)
Anything that has already used an undying ability (More value FTW)
Flinthoof Boar (Again, normally has haste so little point in just returning it)
Burning Tree Shaman (The opponent totally needs more free mana)
Snapcaster Mage (Hey it could happen lol)

You cannot reliably use the Drownyard plan either to mill these cards out. To begin with, you are trying to accumulate two cards to make something work. That in itself is already not consistent. A lot of these threats also come down before you have 6 mana (2 mana for charm, 3 mana for drownyard, and the drownyard itself). When these threats do come down, most of the time the damage is done. It was once said that using one card to make another card playable is a bad way to build your deck. Charm is an exception since it has different modes. But the principles remain the same. If somebody is trying to use Charm and then Drownyard, then I feel they are doing it wrong. I realize the color argument was a bit of a stretch, but this deck is more likely to get or screwed than it is screwed. The wait it out argument just does not fly with me. Naya Blitz decks and other aggro powerhouses will not let you wait it out. They move quickly, and you must respond quickly and efficiently. I have no doubt in your ability to play control. Based on your previous posts that I have seen and the very posts in this thread, it is apparent you are a strong control player. However, this is just a version of control that fits my Draw Go permission play style. Charm is great. But it does not provide CA like Think Twice or Revelation and it does not answer threats as universally as a counterspell does in my opinion. I like it the least in the draw engine package. That is why I decided to cut it. Like I stated earlier, I agree to disagree. I originally tried 4 Charms in the first draft version of my list and it was often subpar. I firmly believe people should play what works for them. I have tried playing 4 and I now play 2. So I have been on both sides of this argument and know what works for me. I encourage you to try going to two if you like permission style control. If you find it does not work, then simply put them back in their original place. Until you try 4 Revelation, 4 Think Twice, and 2 Charm as a package in a permission Esper list (assuming you play a permission version of this deck), then you will never know which works better for you

     I know this thread is old and my comment will probably never be looked at, but I do have something to say...
     For the record, this is less of an argument for Azorius charm than it is a question about your current opinion on it, DG. Because of latest rotation (Theros, obviously), many of the cards you mentioned are no longer legal. This forces me to further "positivify" (maybe that's a word😄) my reaction to the card when considered against a counter spell.  Although I am disappointed by the lack of CA when using it for a draw, I feel that the rotation has heightened the value of its second mode (that being the attack/block bounce) because the powerful "enters the battlefield" abilities are less of a problem and this mode can be effectively used to tie up your opponent's options(that's a fancy way of saying stall). I know that you are far more knowledgable about the fine points of the game than I, this being a key one, so I hope my question is worth asking and does not sound like I'm an "out of the box" player.
     What is your renewed opinion on azorious charm because of rotation? Has your opinion on the card changed for another reason? And for that matter, has it changed at all? Again, this is directed toward DG, but an answer to any one of my questions would be appreciated from any person, perspective, or opinion.

Interrogatively,

Austinist1