Discussion about Ultimate Law

I would only disagree with murder needing to be premeditated

Not my opinion. Just copy/pasted from dictionary.com or something

Quote from: Piotr on May 22, 2013, 11:34:37 AM

Quote from: Mentonin on May 22, 2013, 11:26:21 AM

Quote from: Piotr on May 22, 2013, 11:15:18 AM

Kidnapping in progress is a form of murder. True or false?

I do not understand what you are implying here

Kidnapping in progress is a form of killing someone intentionally?

(sorry I hit Modify instead of Quote)

I do not understand the logic in this reasoning. If the person hasn't died yet, it shouldn't be considered killing her. Why should it be considered murder?

The kidnapped person is a bit like cat in the poisonous box, neither alive nor dead, or both at the same time?

I'm curious why you brought up kidnapping, Piotr.  Could you give some more context for your question?

If the law cannot solve a case of kidnapping, it is rubbish.

I would say the kidnapped person is pretty much alive

I would say the kidnapped person is pretty much alive

How do we know, until such person is released (the poisonous box opened)?

We don't. But by that logic, working in someone's house why they aren't home would be considered stealing. And telling something in this online forum would be considered a lie until further investigations. No one needs to prove innocence, only guilt needs to be proved, so the kidnapper isn't considered a murderer until you prove he did it

Sounds legit. What would be maximum logical punishment if we have proven that kidnapper is a kidnapper, while the child is still in the poisonous box?

IMO the main worries at that time would be to release the kidnapped, not to issue a punishment. Punishment can be issued after rescuing the victim.

Whatever happens to the kidnapper during rescue operation doesn't concern me, killing or torturing him shouldn't be condemned.

I disagree with death penalty, so maximum penalty is life, in my opinion, not legal. You have said otherwise before, though, so it should be the maximum. I do not agree with torture as punishment.

IMO the main worries at that time would be to release the kidnapped, not to issue a punishment.

True, and combining both seems reasonable and practical, I say blow kidnapper's brains out

I do not agree with torture as punishment.

What would be a logical punishment for torture?

Quote from: Mentonin on May 23, 2013, 04:24:06 PM

IMO the main worries at that time would be to release the kidnapped, not to issue a punishment.

True, and combining both seems reasonable and practical, I say blow kidnapper's brains out

Quote from: Mentonin on May 23, 2013, 04:24:06 PM

I do not agree with torture as punishment.

What would be a logical punishment for torture?

Blowing his brain might not be smart if you don't know where the victim is

Logical punishment for torture? Reclusion from society, probably for life. If he doesn't follow the standards of the society he lives in, he has the right to think his own way, but the society thinks they are better without him. So put them away on a cell where they can't harm the community anymore. Or, as you like, kill him.

Or, as you like, kill him.

Sounds excessive to me, but I can image societies who would do that.

Quote from: Mentonin on May 22, 2013, 11:38:17 AM

Quote from: Piotr on May 22, 2013, 11:34:37 AM

Quote from: Mentonin on May 22, 2013, 11:26:21 AM

Quote from: Piotr on May 22, 2013, 11:15:18 AM

Kidnapping in progress is a form of murder. True or false?

I do not understand what you are implying here

Kidnapping in progress is a form of killing someone intentionally?

(sorry I hit Modify instead of Quote)

I do not understand the logic in this reasoning. If the person hasn't died yet, it shouldn't be considered killing her. Why should it be considered murder?

The kidnapped person is a bit like cat in the poisonous box, neither alive nor dead, or both at the same time?

Shroedinger's (sp?) cat? Without knowing the intent of the kidnaper, it is impossible to theorize the outcome to the kidnaped person.  Thusly the kidnaped person is theoretically both alive and dead simultaneously.  Theoretical nonsense IMO.

Theoretical nonsense IMO.

How come? Did you not just describe how it relates to reality? BTW I claim to know the shortest possible definition of reality which can actually fit in a twitt or even a twatt: https://www.quora.com/What-is-reality-3/answer/Piotr-Farbiszewski